788:- I understand the nomination, and its worth discussing. But as an internet based encyclopedia, some times the speed at which we can react to news and create an article, which against definded standrads may seem trivial; needs to be judged against other similar stories and then reviewed after a bit of time. This potential scale of this one needs a bit more time before it can be reviewed properly. Rgds, --
747:, something this is not.) Apart from the very horrific circumstances which has turned this case into a major news story, the case also has called into question the role of authorities which should have stopped this, so it's an event with a significant aftermath and investigation. Clearly, care should be taken to write the article in a conservative, and non-sensationalist manner.
335:
develop. To suggest deleting it on the grounds of respect for the victim would be akin to asking the various media covering the event to stop reporting it and to purge their archives. I know it's not
Knowledge's job to act as a news agency but this event is likely to be examined or studied in future, so I believe there is merit in recording it here.
529:
probably a world's record. It has had widespread coverage so far. If it is deleted as a mere current hot news story, and it turns out to have the long lasting significance it seems to have, we could certainly re-create it. Defies belief. And the alleged imprisoner's wife had NO IDEA there was anything hinky going on.
59:. Notability is clearly established by the massive international coverage of this case. There may at some point be a case for renaming the article, but that does not require an AFD decision, and there is clearly a strong consensus to keep this article. Discussion of any proposed merger or renaming should take place on
352:. May best be rewritten into an article that covers a chronological history of the event more than the person, but deleting this content certainly isn't going to bring us any closer to that goal. For the time being, it should be kept, at least until something substantive can be written regarding the event.
678:
It is good practice to type out an acronym in full, with the acronym in brackets, on the first use in an article. This isn't too painful, it assists those who may not know (and shouldn't have to look up), and is general practice in all 'serious' writing. And it's good manners, too, unless you wish to
660:
states that it is best to avoid using too many acronyms, and isn't a justification to use more. I know that
Articles for Deletion isn't the ideal place for new members of the community to begin, but we could probably do more to help make this easier to understand, especially when the deletion notice
528:
For now. I am all for deleting articles which are merely a news item, but this is one of the most bizarre stories of the late 20th/early 21st century. The nominator grossly misstates the facts by claiming it is merely a one time sex crime. It is alleged incest over a 24 year period of imprisonment,
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and consider the possibility of renaming the article so that it clearly is about the crime, and not about one of the victims. There are after all, at least eight more people involved in this bizarre story. The relevant inclusion policy here is more likely to be NOTNEWS than BLP1E, but even NOTNEWS
546:
Just to let you know, I understand the enormity of the crime we're talking about. My objection is that (a) the story is less than 24 hours old, and (b) we don't have any real standards for inclusion based on type or magnitude of crime involved. I know it's newsworthy and it's attracted a lot of
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This even is especially notable due to its comparisons with the
Kampusch story and the length of time involved versus the Kampusch story (24 years of captivity versus 8 years along with her children being held captive as well). There will be many more details revealed in the coming days and it is
510:
Taking aim at the first call for deletion, there are a lot of other people listed in
Knowledge who's main claim to fame is that something happened to them. And they should be here. This is an encyclopedia. It should be as inclusive as possible, as the aim is to provide information. We should not
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for the time being at least and see how things develop. This is no different in many ways than other articles which detail miseries that have happened to various people.I think this may be best served with an article about the event rather than the person but we can see what happens as things
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to an article on the event. The existence of one article (NK) is not a reason for the existence of another. Kampusch has gone on from the kidnapp event to perform other media roles which are worthy of documentation. If, in the future, Fritzl does this then no doubt she will get an article.
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I can't believe this has been nominated for deletion when there is an article on
Kampusch on Knowledge. Unless there is an influx of similar stories, this needs to be kept. If it must be deleted then we will need to delete
493:
beat to keep this article on it's own so there is a coherent place to put all the information. Merge can be discussed later (though I believe even after all the facts come out this story deserves it's own entry).
704:
A point- I would recommend always wikilinking these (e.g. type ] rather than simply BLP1E). These are already wikilinked at the top
Peripatetic, so follow those links to see what the posters are referring to.
885:
Not really suitable as the alleged case took place over 24 years and only came to light in 2008, so to have a year in the title would be misleading. Also not so much a kidnapping as an imprisonment. Perhaps
822:: WP:BLP1E is irrelevant here, except as an argument to rename into the name of the story rather than the ame of one individual involved. But the affair - to my knowledge - does not really have a name.--
448:-- It is important for others to be aware of what is going on. As someone already mentioned, there are plenty of other crime victims stories published on Knowledge, why should this one be any different?
1039:
Then there are a lot of
Austrian, British and other European media outlets that are going to be fined, not to mention the Austrian police who have released details of the alleged crime and confession!
511:
judge the information we provide as to it's worthiness to be included, but only on it's accuracy and readability, and any judgment on either should only be made with the aim of improving the article.
148:, subject's only claim to notability is being the victim of an alleged sexual crime. Yes, it's published in major papers, but out of respect for the dignity of the victim, I'm recommending
993:
under whatever title is appropriate for the case as a whole; we have a (now fully admitted) case of kidnap, confinement, incest, neglect, and who-knows-what-else over a 24-year period. In
217:
a newspaper amongst many other things. By now, all the things lots of oldtimers have listed wikipedia "is not", would mean we would soon have to delete about a million articles, including
890:
would be better. But this alleged crime began with the alleged imprisonment of
Elisabeth, so I think it's the best place to start. We can look at merging later once more facts are known.
632:
Well, a) it's tiresome to type out "biographics of living persons who are known for only one event" every time, b) it's a wikilink so people can figure it out if so inclined, and c)
1060:. This is nothing more than a news event for now. If, in time, notability rises rather than falls, then we can evaluate a new article and consider what its title should be.
611:. Also I do wish folks would be so considerate as to cut out the insider jargon that permeates pages such as these. WP:BLP1E? WP:BIO1E? Whatever happened to plain English?
137:
317:
Furthermore it has emerged that there are other people who were kept in the house; Elisabeth may not yet turn out to be the most prominent person within this story. --
950:
Other than plain old fashioned censorship, there is no basis for removal. It's not a nice story, but 'niceness' is not a useful editorial criterion.
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75:
912:'s suggestion. Merging it to Amstetten will be confusing a few years down the line so if anything that page should be merged into this one
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is not really relevant, this article is about an event, not a person. It just happens the person's name is the best name for the article.
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If this goes, there are plenty more to remove (including
Kampusch and pretty much all pages related to criminals and their victims)
1018:. Besides that, according to §7 Mediengesetz (Austrian Media Law), publishing such details can end in fines of up to 20000 EUR. --
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The particular event is notable and deserving of inclusion in a larger article on kidnappings, etc. This particular article is
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How do we wrap up this discussion? Can we remove the deletion tag from the page, based on the rather strong majority of
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If this article is deleted, then the all articles on people who have been imprisoned and abused should be deleted
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case. The article will just have to be recreated in a few days. This is much more than an alleged "sexual crime".
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736:. Also, the names are not published in most news papers, as far as I can see. mabahj 07:33, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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551:. I decided to play it safe and recommend deletion, and I stand by my reasoning. //
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attention, but then so did the Corey
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There are many crime victims who have articles on this site (see
244:. Until this deletion happens, I've added the {{current}} tag.
595:, given there are numerous victims and only one perpetrator. --
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The iprtance depends on the crime. go read the article.
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is a long outdated guideline. Knowledge in actual fact
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suggestions of something to merge with or rename to?--
1089:Possibly rename at some point. Half the things in
1072:This is a news story, not an encyclopedia topic.
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
661:is (currently) as big as the entire article. --
304:This is a lead story throughout the world. --
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997:, people. Absolutely notable, to my mind.
1093:were just "news stories" at one point.--
805:. meets notability criteria in spades.
287:as well. And the article on Priklopil.
261:This is already being compared to the
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591:although I would consider a move to
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658:Knowledge:WTF? OMG! TMD TLA. ARG!
634:Knowledge:WTF? OMG! TMD TLA. ARG!
679:discourage new active mebers?
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
1110:very relevant and valuable. --
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958:Amstetten kidnap case of 2008
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867:, as a specific suggestion.
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841:s above, and the lack of
1127:ack KleenupKrew [[User:A
32:Please do not modify it.
61:the article's talk page
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192:Delicious carbuncle
55:, closed early per
391:Kidnapped Children
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350:Strong keep/merge
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403:—Preceding
399:Kidnappings
374:KleenupKrew
280:Strong Keep
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473:Weak Merge
68:HairedGirl
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337:IrishPete
246:Booglamay
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753:(Check!)
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138:View log
76:contribs
1112:Mike551
1074:Deli nk
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732:as per
676:Comment
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105:protect
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57:WP:SNOW
1125:DELETE
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366:Delete
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238:Delete
184:Delete
152:. //
150:Delete
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133:delete
109:delete
72:(talk)
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954:Merge
927:Merge
861:Merge
555:Chris
549:drama
314:Merge
223:ephix
156:Chris
136:) – (
126:views
118:watch
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66:Brown
16:<
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96:talk
92:edit
63:. --
53:Keep
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