Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Francis Lucille

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for several reasons but primarily to guarantee that all information in the article is backed up by reliable sources. If several reliable sources are added that talk about the subject (in the body of the article, not in the EL section) then I would change my mind. This debate is scheduled to last several more days, that should be plenty of time to add those secondary sources. I've gone ahead and removed most of the material that to my eyes, constituted original research and unverifiable claims so it reads less like an advert (reading like an advertisement is not grounds for deletion but improvement). I know the author of the article has put some hard work into the article, but it also takes a lot of hard work to become familiar with Knowledge's guidelines and processes and the reasons why those guidelines and processes exist.

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friends to ask them to contribute to this discussion, and arguing that essentially this article should be treated differently. That's a lot of effort to go to, and would probably exhaust anybody. As I mentioned, your efforts would have (and still can) be better spent addressing the concerns raised during this discussion (just a fellow human beings opinion which in no way reflects Knowledge policy). The article will be deleted at the end of the discussion period, when an impartial admin reviews the discussion and makes a decision as whether or not consensus is to keep or delete. In other words, it's not over until it's over. Take care.

1862:. i am not an expert, but to my view the article is kind of new. i am not aware of how things work here, but i've seen much-flawed articles lasting for years before they were improved. either delete the article now and wait for the editors to publish it back when it is more suitable for wikipedia, or let them more time. however, deleting it now might prevent the editors working together in its "unflawing." this is just my philosophy, and it may well not be endorsed by wikipedia, but at least you've got my two cents about it. 1169:-- The house of God: Vijai Shankar -- A course in miracles: Mira -- Magical mystery tour: Bharat -- All you need is love: Catherine Ingram -- Love me tender: John de Ruiter -- Amazing grace: Pamela Wilson -- No guru, no method, no teacher: Isaac Shapiro -- The beat generation: Vartman -- San Francisco renaissance: Gangaji -- The godfather of soul: Ramesh Balsekar -- Rendezvous with Ramana -- Who am I?: Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi 319:: My gut feeling is not favourable but I will wait to see if referencing and tone can be improved. The first thing I find in Google is that he is not the most famous person with "Francis Lucille" as part of their name. This makes searching harder. I am not impressed by the Stanley Sobottka endorsement (it is just a personal endorsement in a self-published essay) but there is a book with an fairly long interview with him here 1038:

being seriously believed in by so many people. I got as far as verifying that the book with the interview was not self-published and that the publisher is not exclusively a publisher of spiritualist books. That is what made it a weak keep for me. In my heart, I would love to see the back of all this stuff but I know that it isn't for me to impose my POV on Knowledge. Maybe I am overcompensating here? --

66: 322:. The introductory bio can be used to verify parts of the bio here. I don't have access to the other book to check that although an Amazon search confirms that it does cover Lucille. It seems to me that the subject is borderline for notability. I don't think that everybody who gets a namecheck in a few minor books on spirituality should automatically be considered notable. Maybe we need a bit more. -- 1478:

commercial value of article written for a baseball game and fencing. Please don't compare apples to oranges.Some of the comments above by you are very valuable . sprituality is not very commercial. so finding sources and adding them takes time. in addition to that --some one is this category. may add some very valuable points and can be of great help. Thank you for all the help and suggestions.

663:, which for Knowledge, doesn't really fit into the guidelines, unfortunately. As to the pointer that the greatest of spiritualists remain silent, I wholeheartedly agree to this assessment, but the corrolary to this is that the greatest will be made well known by the populace. I see blog entries, I see an interview, and I see some books mentioning him by name - but as I understand 2036:: I had requested help through the talk pages from users who are familiar with the subject and might help me improve the material.Many are helping me with valuable suggestions.I have pointed them to the article.To give their feedback.Some one familiar with the subject will be more helpful to guide and suggest.The objective is to improve the article. 667:, that doesn't really fall within the guides. I opine, then, that we need to find more on Mr. Lucille, most certainly, and suggest that the article would be deleted - but as usual, I have no prejudice to a recreation if we have material on him found after the deletion. In the event of deletion, I suggest userfying the article for 2305:(which means that the article no longer appears in the main Knowledge space, but it's still on Knowledge in an unindexed space that's set aside for Amarhindustani, so that he can continue to work on it without pressure of deadlines and bring it back to a deletion review when he's made it ready in his own time.)— 2153:

Respectfully, from just my viewpoint, you are probably feeling overwhelmed, because instead of reading the guidelines that fellow human beings were pointing you towards, and thus putting forth the effort to address their concerns, you expended too much effort canvassing other editors, perhaps calling

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so others can see clearly what is stated about this person and that it is verifiable. To Amarhindustani, you might try a little exercise where you write the article as if this person had recently died. Neutrally you would overview their life and accomplishments. Once you have that start migrating the

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as well. We need to get more editors on it. It is clear that the current editor is trying to do the right thing but he needs help. He missed out on the standard Welcome message, so I have given him that, which should help a bit. Even so, we need somebody who understands this stuff (which I don't) and

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here - I like the suggestion above of move somewhere else, perhaps his own sandbox where he can work on it with help from those inputting here. I have my doubts that he will be able to establish notability. Francis may be a great guy and notable but he has not done much to get notability it appears.

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Watkins Publishing (est.1894) ….continues in its long tradition of unillustrated publishing, specialising in the spiritual traditions of the world, ancient wisdom, divination and philosophy. “There are many engaged in checking facts, analyzing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, hence it is

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there is non-trivial coverage in multiple published books (many added since nomination) so I think this meets notability. However, the prose of the article is truly awful for a Knowledge article. If this was written in a more detached, factual style it would probably never have been nominated here

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of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article." I have strong points to support the above statement. could you let me know when you are planning to delete the article?. I just need some more time. in the mean time ,I am hoping some one else might pitch in

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I agree ;but the topic that I am editing is related to spirituality.where the greatest are silent about their own works. and their works and contributions are realized much later. Few points: Just a search on amazon shows --that there are at least 30 books which quote the present author. In spite of

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Some of them might have stumbled on this site. Those I have asked for help was only with the intention of asking them to cite any sources that they know in addition to the ones that I have already mentioned. As clearly mentioned at the page ,it is not about popular vote. so if any one just votes it

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Francis Lucille speaks about "The Truth", "The Reality", "Our True Nature" . His teaching is associated with Non-duality, the common ground of Advaita Vedanta, Ch'an Buddhism, Zen,Taoism and Sufism, the same common ground which is at the core of the message from Sages, Saints, Jagadgurus and other

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Title The teachers of one : living advaita, conversations on the nature of non-duality / Paula Marvelly. Other Title Living advaita, conversations on the nature of non-duality Author Marvelly, Paula. Publisher London : Watkins Pub., 2002. Description xiii, 281 p. : ports. ; 24 cm. Notes

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book publishers" who have published Francis Lucille in France and Germany. Both are independent publishers. The Publisher for Germany is J.Kamphausen/ Mediengruppe, which has an entire book line covering Advaita, including the German translations of "Silence of The Heart" by Robert Adams, "I am

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I'm seeing a few arguments here that basically state that this biographical article should be treated differently than all other biographical articles. Personally, those arguments are not compelling enough to actually treat it differently. It's my understanding that we have notability guidelines

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etc. The request is because --The yardstick used to evalutate the notablity etc will be very different in each category. For example --the publishers in each category and number and type of people accesing this information will vary. We cannot expect the same viewership and publishers reach ,and

1359:. The article, as is, is poorly written in tone and presentation. I will assume good faith though that the subject is notable as a teacher and/or author. All the sourcing and good faith efforts need to continue however to 1. Rewrite the article neutrally and 2. Convert all sources to become inline 1037:

Yes. It is problematic dealing with subjects like spirituality and astrology because they are essentially just made up stuff with no canonical sources defining what is notable and what is fringe. The trouble is that some of it is clearly notable, despite being made up, due to its long history of

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I am trying to consolidate all the points suggested and planning to address them,one by one,just few more days will of great help.The material has sources,and I hope that some one stumbling on the article may pitch in too.There are tons of references in print media and comparatively not as much

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Regardless of how much time is left, perhaps more attention to the article and less canvassing of fellow editors. It should be a matter of hours or minutes, not days, to include the references from 3rd party reliable sources. Adding articles to Knowledge is not always easy, but always

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1) Book: Jan Kersschot, This Is It: Dialogues on The Nature of Oneness, London, Watkins Publishing. pp180-189, "Perfume of Peace", Interview with Francis Lucille; pp219-223, "Revelation of The Divine Hand", Second Interview with Francis Lucille. Complete chapters dedicated to Francis

401:"The line of advaita thinking that I have followed seems best represented by Francis Lucille. He studied advaita with Jean Klein who, in turn, had it from Krishnamenon and others in the 1950s. Francis Lucille may be the foremost exponent of the advaita tradition currently teaching. " 1766:

Thank you for the feedback. Some of the comments above have been very helpful.but some just are too generic and indicate lack of knowledge of the subject matter ,in that case my humble request to you --is to add comment but not vote . I would appreciate ,if you can be more specific.

1879:. The publishers are reputed.and the Journals are reputed and reviewed by editorial boards. As noted above, Francis' work has been published in many languages and is cited in many books and articles. It is an important component of the contemporary literature on advaita. 470:. "PUBLICATIONS The Journal, "SELF ENQUIRY", which was published two - four times each year by the Ramana Maharshi Foundation UK between 1993 and March 2004, has now ceased publication. Contributors included Robert Adams, Ramesh Balsekar, Douglas Harding, Catherine Ingram, 2474:

ok since I find that there are few visits to this site ,I would like to consolidate the points mentioned above.so that some one might be able to address one or all of these. I need viewpoints and suggestions [backed up by very logical reason and supporting evidence) .

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2)It should be noted that Paula Marvelley's book, The Teachers of One:Living Advaita has a complete chapter on Francis Lucille, entitled "Copernican Shift." This cite addresses Item b (self published), Item c ("cult websites"), and Item g (notability/namecheck)

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As I was under the impression that the article would be deleted. But I did find some articles to illustrate what you have suggested. but ,still there are too may words.it seems as though ,I am fighting a case in court.Too overwhelming,and drowned in words :-)

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who is experienced with editing to work through the article issues and sort them out. Ideally, we want a shorter, more neutral and easier to understand article. I have put it in Wikiprojects Biography and Spirituality. With luck that will attract interest. --

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Deletion debates usually stay open for five days and the closing admin decides on the basis of the arguments put forward in the debate. However, this one has been relisted because few people took part. So you have another five days to make improvements.

389: 1251:• The Interview is published in reputable peer-reviewed sources and/or by well-regarded academic presses. • The Article is signed. • There is an extensive interview in this book with Francis Lucille. • The books have interviews with teachers :Gangaji 789:. "PUBLICATIONS The Journal, "SELF ENQUIRY", which was published two - four times each year by the Ramana Maharshi Foundation UK between 1993 and March 2004. Contributors included Robert Adams, Ramesh Balsekar, Douglas Harding, Catherine Ingram, 881:- Amarhindustani, please, if you have additional information pointing to the notability of the article, add it to the article and note in here that you've added material. If this is notable, we need to know on what grounds it holds up to the 2456:

can be neglected.Please see my comments above on 19 March 2009 to be precise --04:02, 19 March 2009 (UTC) on ,I have clearly mentioned this.I am consolidating all the points and suggestions given above and will modify accordingly.Thank you

711:, and they force us to delete if the coverage isn't there. I agree that there's significant coverage but I don't agree that the sources are over the threshold. I'm sorry, Amarhindustani, because I can see you've put a lot into this.— 2599:, contemporary teachers with current listings in Knowledge. This addresses Item b ( Self Published), Item C ( Cult Websites, as other interviewees are in Knowledge), Item g ( notability/namecheck). Table of contents available at 1164:

as well as less well-known teachers on the nature of non-duality. Contents All my troubles seem so far away: Satyananda -- The dharma bum: Wayne Liquorman -- The smell of burnt almonds Pratima -- The secret garden: Tony Parsons --

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it ...I am finding hard time finding self-published book by Francis ,which confirms ---In matters related to spirituality --The most powerful are very silent and this precisely why I why I am trying my best to save this article.

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I will try to gather more information as possible. Please give me some more time. --Some of the most precious diamonds are very rare ....I understand the constaint and spirit of wikipedia too,to verify the information available.

194:: Questionable notability, cited published books appear to be "self-published" with cited publication list being a "web store" on Francis Lucille's website. The article is poorly sourced and feels like pure advertisement. 1227:

There are three very extensive interviews with Francis Lucille in books published by publications of repute . In response to the above observation ---The article doesn't include a single reliable source. Totally fails

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of Advaita Vedanta of the twentieth century century. Francis Lucille is the prominent disciple among them..others include Éric Baret and Jean-Marc Mantel. That is another reason ...that I have to keep this floating.

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Point Taken.BTW,Only today ,I have requested others to help me out as I thought today was the last day to save the article,otherwise it might be deleted:-).I will take a closer look at all the information.Thanks

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or any other speaker on similar subject. you will not find big publishers as you expect for Fictional Books. Note as per Wiki --"Notable in the sense of being "famous", or "popular"—although not irrelevant—is

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You are most welcome too. And by the way ,those I have requested help ...many of them have tagged it as delete. what they vote is not important.I found an interesting subject and need help to improve it.

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3)Also, the complete list of "namecheck" references for The Book of One, by Dennis Waite, . They are pp 31, 110, 165, 169, 188, 201, 206, 240, 248. This addresses the "namecheck" comment, Item G above.

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is carried by only 1 library (in Singapore), while his other English books are not carried by any library! Typically even obscure books can be found in 10-100s of libraries; consider for example

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Hi, I have re-written the entire section. based on the book you have suggested. I will slowly add each section.it is difficult to do it in one go. let me know if the tone and content is fine.

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Let me clarify on this. I did ask for some help yesterday from editors and some of my friends ,as I was under the impression that the article will be deleted after 5 days,I wanted some help.

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Additional Interview from a "Third party source" Neutral publisher: 1.The Below book has interviews from worlds most influential spiritual teachers. 2.Please refer to the interview --: -->

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no independent, non-trivial coverage by reliable sources at all about this spiritualist. Works self-published, and no other indications of wide fame, acclaim or infamy. Clearly fails

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and Western Philosophers page of Nonduality Salon. Selections from his writings appear on his webpage, No Presence, No Absence. he quotes ..... Francis Lucille, a beloved teacher....

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This article's changed a lot since I last read it, and I notice that more than half the article now consists of citations and sources. I'm going to change my recommendation to

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I won't presume as to which section these should be listed in but, it is critical to point to the other authors interviewed in this third party published book include

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Too much link-spam, self-published sources, dubious sources from cult websites, etc... Lacking any meaningful content or reliable source to establish notability.

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5)Francis Lucille is listed as an author of 3 millenaire, a leading peer reviewed online journal on Non Duality in France along with other Knowledge authors like

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This Author’s books/references are published by Major publishers world wide ,i.e. Watkins Publishing; Publisher: Kamphausen who also has published books of

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current material together with it and add sourcing. Even if the article survives for now it will likely come back here if exponential improvements aren't made.

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Please don't delete it, but humbly request The Pundits to point out the 'Blips' and the 'Gaps', so the Truth Seekers can come together to fix it. Thank you.

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of Advaita Vedanta of the twentieth century century. Francis Lucille is the prominent disciple among them..others include Éric Baret and Jean-Marc Mantel.

2283:, with implications that whoever wanted it deleated "didn't understand spirituality". I expect that they have canvased many others in a similar fassion. -- 699:. This is annoying because I think it's a good faith article about a subject a new editor genuinely feels should be covered here, and I'm conscious of how 2083:

I was of the impression that the article will be deleted in 5 days. That was the hurry. if we have few more days .. I will read about the rules in detail.

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If you could extend the dead line for deleting the article ..I hope some more will be able to give ,constructive comments. Please give me few more days.

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Every time ,I edit and discover something new . I was starting off with the word --Keep. Please count my vote as only one. where ever you find my login.

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References "Francis Lucille" "He left an important legacy which sometimes refer teachers contemporaries who were his disciples, including Éric Baret,

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His books are published in France ,German ,Spanish etc. Books published in other languages: One of the book is published by ,publisher of repute --

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Has given the reference to his website www.francislucille.com This is not promotional. Please see the references to his work from other two sites.

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on-line-That adds to the delay.if you delete the article immediately then the chances to bring it back will be remote.Just my 2 cents. Your call.

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6) Vision Walk: Asking Questions, Getting Answers, Shifting Consciousness by Brandt Morgan,page 100. ISBN-10 0976763141 ISBN-13 978-0-976763-4-7

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1) The Tao of Now: Daily Wisdom from Mystics, Sages, Poets, and Saints,Page 102 Josh Baran Publisher "Hamptom roads publisher company inc."

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Conference given at Non profit orginization in 2003 . Other speakers in the conference are all very respected in their respective fields.

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the AfD process can be. — The article's falling foul of various rules designed to prevent Knowledge being used as a promotional tool (see

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You can find that this publisher has published books on other authors of repute as well ,like Dalai lama etc 04:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

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I will remove the ,sections that are marked with citation needed currently. Once I get the citations I will add the section accordingly.

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This is not promotional: I have removed the link to the publications link --I have only provided the link as convenience to the readers.

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Just a note to the closer to say that I've gone through the article again after these edits were made, and I still feel we're short on

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That" by Maharaj Nisargadatta, and many more. The website is here: Similarly, the French publisher is Originel-accarias, the

1461:. Categories: Spiritual teachers and Advaitin philosophers. Could some one move this to the to the categories of Spritiual Teachers. 780: 320: 80: 2792: 2408:). Checking the logs there are two others whos votes were deleted (due to the fact that the were verbatim copies of one another?): 2340:

One must sometimes toot one's own horn to be heard or have someone else doing it but not via Knowledge. Will help on sandbox effort

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People independent of the subject itself have actually considered the subject notable enough that they have written and published .

1639:. The cited sources are non-RS websites or books published by minor presses. The subject's own books are themselves non-notable; a 773:

This article has : Published interview with francis lucille in a book along with spiritual luminaries This is very notable book!

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Website listing of authors: Further, nondualite.free.fr is another peer reviewed website with work included by Francis Lucille,

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a lot of the sources seem self published none of the links seem to establish notability definitely not enough to have a article.

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6)All of these third party sources are relevant in that they address the criticism regarding notability and verifiable sources.

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9) Being Home: Returning to the Place We've Never Left by Thomas H Beyer (Paperback - Mar 1, 2007) ISBN-10-595-42465-1 ;

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Of note: Gangaji and Ramesh Balsekar, both non dual teachers listed in Knowledge are other interviewees in this book.

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Could you please be more generic ..which of the sources are questionable and what is your criteria for your conclusion.

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The first thing I find in Google is that he is not the most famous person with "Francis Lucille" as part of their name.

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1)Lynn Marie Lumiere, John Lumiere-Wins.The Awakening West: Conversations with Today's New Western Spiritual Leaders,

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from "commercial and celebrity" related articles.where more notable --are famous. Here the greatest are very silent.

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Most of thes were addressed,but I would like to know how may of the above are still open and need to be addressed.

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This is not much about the person but about the teaching. Please see other teachers who are already there in WIKI.

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He has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable and intellectually independent.

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Please consider the following facts. Jan Kersschot. THIS IS IT. Watkins ISBN: 1-84293-093-1 “Perfume of Peace” .

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a

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prominent Advaita Teachers.The publishers are reputed and the Journals are reputed and reviewed by editorial.

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here. From what I see, the whole argument in favor of keeping the article relies on that, within his circles,

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and David Frawley, along with others among our own members." This is not a name sake magazine.it is a journal.

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a

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Thank you.There were too many rules and terminologies and it was going in circles..after some time ,I gave up.

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h) "Something that asserts why we should have an article on the subject needs to be pointed out quickly." ?

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Thanks So much every one for taking time to give the references.I appreciate all your effort and references.

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Can some one point me to any one article currently on WIKI which you think meets all the above criterion.

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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that

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A course in consciousness, by, Stanley Sobottka ,Emeritus Professor of Physics,University of Virginia ]

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Thanks so much ...I appreciate all your help.Yes,As per your suggestions I will add some more sourcing.

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The Awakening West: Conversations with Today's New Western Spiritual Leaders by Lynne Marie Lumiere.

1152:"I agree that there's significant coverage but I don't agree that the sources are over the threshold" 447:

Please feel free to modify the article ...I have quoted tons of books in the external links sections.

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A credible independent biography of a person that covers that person's life in detail is non-trivial.

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that asserts why we should have an article on the subject needs to be pointed out quickly and in the

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There are not as many Readers/viewers for this subject and hence you will not find big publishers.

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3) Awake in the Heartland: The Ecstasy of What Is (Paperback) by Joan Tollifson (Author) page 96.

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http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=jBLUI0oS794C&pg=PA29&dq=%22Francis+Lucille%22#PPA5,M1

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Includes bibliographical references (p. 279-281). Summary A collection of interviews with the

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The above recommendation have not taken all the points menioned before arriving at conclusion.

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I will be adding these to the main section shortly.but wanted to bring these to your attention.

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The person is regarded as an important figure and is widely cited by their peers or successors.

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I have tried to provide to the audience at large genuine information that I have encountered.

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and David Frawley, along with others among our own members." This is not a name sake magazine.

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7) I am trying my best to get more information as possible. I have found one more reference --

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I will gather the required details and update the website. Please do not delete the article.

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.

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there's nothing here that even aspires to notability per our GNG and specific guidelines at

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2)in Advaita vedanta ---"Ramana Maharshi" ;Please refer to the publications in Journal...a

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5) The Art of Letting Go: A Pathway to Inner Freedom (Paperback) by Vidya Frazier (Author)

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http://www.revue3emillenaire.com/contacts/contacts.php?menu=contacts&page=liens_auteurs

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sources. They all look like writings from other new age gurus, not from neutral sources.--

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in Advaita vedanta ---"Ramana Maharshi" ;Please refer to the publications in Journal...a

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etc, The books have been published in 4 languages --German ,French ,Spanish and English.

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http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1882874811/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all

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2) Back to the Truth: 5000 years of Advaita by Dennis Waite (Paperback - Feb 25, 2007)

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Please compare the article with any of the existing topics under similar category --

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Lucille, Francis (interview) – Labanauskas & McKean Jan. ‘02, Feb. ’02, Nov. ‘02

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books in that country. A list of authors is here: including Knowledge authors

1687:: you are comparing the number of books and viewership of two different categories. 2885:

http://weltinnenraum.de/oxid.php/cl/alist/cnid/spirituelle-tradition-advaita/pgNr/3

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Nonetheless, you are welcome to participate and express your opinions. Remember to

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1)Significant coverage is deemed to be more than trivial but less than exclusive."

2006:

has canvassed over 20 users from the spirituality project for this afd. Including

1984:. Seems notable enough to me, to warrant a hold, and allow the article to grow! -- 1059:. I've taken a quick pass at cleaning it a bit. To the main author I'm unclear if 172: 1234:

Marvelly, Paula (2002). The teachers of Living one. London: Watkins. pp. 61-71.

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to support me too. Thank you for the time and feedback. I appreciate it. Thanks

882: 704: 664: 2380:: It seems very fishy to me that the majority of keep votes are from brand new 2645: 2496:

g) Notability not met by "a namecheck in a few minor books on spirituality. ?

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By the way someone put a rather biased plea to vote to keep the article on my

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Quote --Everything is grace .When we say yes to what is ,we say yes to grace.

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Does not seem to have been the subject of multiple, independant articles per

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4) Everyday Enlightenment: Seven Stories of Awakening Sally Bongers page 21.

2505:(j) Most all of these issues relate to tone, notability and verifiability. ? 634:

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.

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e) Magazines, Journals and Books "published by respected publishing houses"

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in particular). Those rules oblige us to look for significant coverage in

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Just as a brief note: Notability and verifiability have clear criteria:

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i) "Publication List being a "web store" on Francis Lucille's website. ?

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Some of the sources cited involve evaluation of the original information.

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Please compare the same among the same category --advaita or nodualily.

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1.About Notability and Sources: Please don't compare Apples to oranges.

2716: 1790: 1192:: The article doesn't include a single reliable source. Totally fails 405: 2493:

f) "Not the most famous person with Francis Lucille in their name ?

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Knowledge:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#Individual merit

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accounts which appear to be created for the sole purpose of voting:

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8)The Bhagavad Gita (The divine conversations) Alan Jacobs ;page 3.

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http://www.advaita.org.uk/discourses/teachers/thoughts_lucille.htm

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2) Dennis Waite. The Book of One: The Spiritual Path of Advaita,

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.

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4.It is important to notice Knowledge regarding the "third party

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I have verified on this website and everything seems authentic.

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http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/images/uploaded/file/Sobottka.pdf

2781: 1258: 2263:, whereas Francis Lucille is only referenced in user pages. - 60: 462:

Here is another reason to keep the article. Please refer to :

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Hi Dennis, "If a topic has received significant coverage in

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Though many of them seem to be out of print. I found one --

2719:. So that I can use that as reference to shape my article. 1653:, whose bio was up for a recent contentious AFD; his book 1248:

This is a publishing house of repute established in 1894.

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http://www.dbponline.co.uk/WebFiles/watkins_catalogue.pdf

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Please give me your comments and supporting evidence.

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and Osho and P.D. Ouspensky,Papaji (Poonja H.W.L) and

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Another reason why the article should not be deleted.

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http://www.originel-accarias.com/Edition/auteurs.html

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It is non trivial --- you have the subject in detail.

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s. Keeps the discussion from being to obfuscated. --

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Lucille is the leading teacher of _____ in California

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One more reference: Reference: Greg Goode, Ph.D., is

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has been met. Unlikely a credible source will state

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http://www.dbponline.co.uk/book_preview.asp?b_id=70

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http://www.dbponline.co.uk/book_preview.asp?b_id=70

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despite being referenced over 50 times on Knowledge

639:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 404:

8) Here are tons of audio cds of francis lucille 2)

2579:I have additional factual material for inclusion : 2490:e) "Significant coverage' in 'reliable sources" ? 1439:list of Living people-related deletion discussions 2848:http://www.ennea.org/articles/EM_author_index.pdf 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 2768:). No further edits should be made to this page. 539:http://www.realization.org/page/doc0/doc0013.htm 87:is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, 1657:is found in 3077 libraries listed on Worldcat. 832:list of California-related deletion discussions 2257:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Stephen Knapp 1019:There seem to be third party sources, but no 79:among Knowledge contributors. Knowledge has 8: 1803:For example --please find the references of 885:here on Knowledge. Please, enlighten us? -- 439:Just my observations on your comments. : --> 1162:world's most influential spiritual teachers 858:list of France-related deletion discussions 1825:non-trivial works focus upon this subject. 1739: 1672: 1492: 1211: 1138: 852: 826: 735: 337: 208: 83:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and 1419:. The "sources" are all self-interested. 264:http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness 856:: This debate has been included in the 830:: This debate has been included in the 101:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end. 2774: 1437:: This debate has been included in the 1329:Please see interviews and articles in 2782:http://en.wikipedia.org/Eckhart_Tolle 910:reliable sources that are independent 7: 2699:Under the same category, of course - 2424:). At the very least it smells like 1149:Response to the comment made above: 484:so please dont delete the article. 2860:"Inner Directions Conference,2003" 2487:d) Promotional Nature of Article ? 1156:copernican shift: Francis Lucille 406:http://openlibrary.org/a/OL3829177A 2508:(k)Is the current tone acceptable? 1260:etc Who are already on wikipedia. 513:http://fr.wikipedia.org/Jean_Klein 464:http://www.ramana-maharshi.org.uk/ 24: 2532:a) Third Party published material 2484:c) The use of "cult" websites. ? 1310:on "equal footing" argument: See 1167:Copernican shift: Francis Lucille 1269:http://www.originel-accarias.com 64: 2741:. Knowledge is not advertising. 1262:So it puts him in equal footing 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 2837:http://www.ennea.org/what.html 219:This is not an advertisement. 1: 2481:b) Self Published Sources ? 2428:, and at worst it looks like 921:) 16:12, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 97:on the part of others and to 2672:, all listed in Knowledge. 2550:g) Independent from subject. 2529:2)From "reliable sources" : 2259:, Stephen Knapp was deleted 557:One more reason: Jean Klein 317:Reserving judgement, for now 2511:(l) Publications are minor? 2014:who are now arguing keep.-- 802:] is considered one of the 559:] is considered one of the 283:I will remove the section 73:this is not a majority vote 2925: 2751:20:14, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2729:16:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2686:22:30, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2568:16:39, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2466:15:57, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2442:15:25, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2372:14:34, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2350:13:40, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2324:08:29, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2293:07:58, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2273:07:01, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2224:03:50, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2188:04:41, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2164:04:12, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2141:04:02, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2117:03:47, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2093:03:34, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2070:03:22, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2051:03:34, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 2024:02:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 1994:02:26, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 1956:01:46, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 1900:00:51, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 1872:00:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC) 1850:23:08, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1734:22:19, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1717:20:03, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1667:19:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1628:18:33, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1606:17:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1580:18:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1554:- best not to keep saying 1539:05:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1518:05:17, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1488:03:49, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1451:00:02, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1429:23:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC) 1406:20:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC) 1381:09:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC) 1346:06:27, 17 March 2009 (UTC) 1331:Editorial reviewed Journal 1324:19:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1302:04:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC) 1206:16:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC) 1179:07:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC) 1127:00:00, 16 March 2009 (UTC) 1092:22:42, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 1048:00:05, 18 March 2009 (UTC) 1033:16:58, 16 March 2009 (UTC) 1012:20:11, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 993:19:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 960:19:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 931:16:44, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 903:15:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 873:08:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 847:08:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 816:07:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 769:07:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 730:01:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 689:00:15, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 661:people really like the guy 648:00:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 606:17:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC) 585:08:00, 13 March 2009 (UTC) 553:01:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC) 529:00:21, 13 March 2009 (UTC) 505:18:39, 12 March 2009 (UTC) 460:22:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC) 434:20:57, 10 March 2009 (UTC) 332:10:07, 10 March 2009 (UTC) 304:05:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC) 242:01:28, 10 March 2009 (UTC) 204:01:16, 10 March 2009 (UTC) 57:00:09, 20 March 2009 (UTC) 2538:c) Peer Reviewed Journals 1744:Amarhindustani's comments 1677:Amarhindustani's comments 1497:Amarhindustani's comments 1216:Amarhindustani's comments 1143:Amarhindustani's comments 740:Amarhindustani's comments 511:here is one more reason: 342:Amarhindustani's comments 213:Amarhindustani's comments 2761:Please do not modify it. 2630:publisher of non duality 2547:f) Mainstream Newspapers 535:editor of the Nondualism 32:Please do not modify it. 2541:d) University Textbooks 109:single-purpose accounts 81:policies and guidelines 107:Comments by suspected 2705:Advaitin philosophers 2243:few or no other edits 1975:few or no other edits 1919:few or no other edits 1779:Advaitin philosophers 883:notability guidelines 804:most eloquent masters 623:few or no other edits 561:most eloquent masters 362:Parameter error in {{ 111:may be tagged using: 2713:New Thought movement 2535:b) Secondary Sources 2245:outside this topic. 1977:outside this topic. 1921:outside this topic. 1787:New Thought movement 972:in the first place. 787:very reputed journal 625:outside this topic. 519:, Jean-Marc Mantel" 468:very reputed journal 2709:New Thought writers 2004:User:Amarhindustani 1783:New Thought writers 1712:robe and wizard hat 669:User:Amarhindustani 91:by counting votes. 2701:Spiritual teachers 2670:Jiddu Krishnamurti 1775:Spiritual teachers 1643:search shows that 655:I'm gonna go with 44:The result was 2593:U.G. Krishnamurti 2246: 2227: 2210:comment added by 1978: 1959: 1942:comment added by 1922: 1903: 1886:comment added by 1856: 1855: 1715: 1694: 1693: 1545: 1544: 1453: 1352: 1351: 1292: 1278:comment added by 1254:, Ramesh Balsekar 1185: 1184: 875: 861: 849: 835: 822: 821: 772: 755:comment added by 650: 626: 593: 592: 588: 571:comment added by 508: 491:comment added by 312: 311: 307: 290:comment added by 245: 228:comment added by 123: 122: 119: 95:assume good faith 2916: 2909: 2904: 2898: 2893: 2887: 2882: 2876: 2875:www.thirdmg.com 2873: 2867: 2866: 2864: 2856: 2850: 2845: 2839: 2834: 2828: 2823: 2817: 2812: 2806: 2801: 2795: 2790: 2784: 2779: 2763: 2321: 2311: 2228: 2226: 2204: 2191: 1960: 1958: 1936: 1904: 1902: 1880: 1740: 1709: 1673: 1567: 1566:Dennis The Tiger 1493: 1433: 1409: 1388:Delete with fire 1377: 1371: 1291: 1272: 1257:, Eckhart tolle 1212: 1139: 1124: 1114: 1108:for the moment.— 1106:reliable sources 1088: 1082: 997:I agree. I vote 989: 986: 985: 982: 981: 956: 953: 952: 949: 948: 890: 889:Dennis The Tiger 862: 836: 771: 749: 736: 727: 717: 709:reliable sources 676: 675:Dennis The Tiger 644: 638: 636: 608: 587: 565: 507: 485: 367: 338: 306: 284: 244: 222: 209: 182: 176: 158: 118: 103: 68: 61: 53: 34: 2924: 2923: 2919: 2918: 2917: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2905: 2901: 2894: 2890: 2883: 2879: 2874: 2870: 2862: 2858: 2857: 2853: 2846: 2842: 2835: 2831: 2824: 2820: 2813: 2809: 2802: 2798: 2791: 2787: 2780: 2776: 2772: 2766:deletion review 2759: 2666:Ramesh Balsakar 2654:Douglas Harding 2638:Ramana Maharshi 2634:Douglas Harding 2597:Douglas Harding 2478:a) Link Spam ? 2320: 2317: 2307: 2205: 2181: 2008:User:Ekabhishek 1937: 1881: 1857: 1745: 1695: 1678: 1565: 1546: 1498: 1475:Ramesh Balsekar 1471:Ramana Maharshi 1399: 1375: 1369: 1353: 1273: 1217: 1186: 1144: 1123: 1120: 1110: 1086: 1080: 987: 983: 979: 977: 975: 954: 950: 946: 944: 942: 888: 823: 795:it is a journal 791:Francis Lucille 750: 741: 726: 723: 713: 674: 642: 632: 594: 566: 517:Francis Lucille 486: 477:Sprituality is 472:Francis Lucille 361: 359:978-157174-8842 343: 313: 285: 223: 214: 178: 149: 135:Francis Lucille 133: 130: 127:Francis Lucille 112: 99:sign your posts 51: 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 2922: 2920: 2911: 2910: 2899: 2888: 2877: 2868: 2851: 2840: 2829: 2818: 2807: 2796: 2785: 2773: 2771: 2770: 2754: 2753: 2721:Amarhindustani 2697: 2696: 2689: 2688: 2678:Amarhindustani 2662: 2661: 2622: 2621: 2614: 2613: 2606: 2605: 2585: 2584: 2580: 2577: 2560:Amarhindustani 2556: 2555: 2554: 2553: 2552: 2551: 2548: 2545: 2542: 2539: 2536: 2533: 2527: 2515: 2514: 2513: 2512: 2509: 2506: 2503: 2500: 2497: 2494: 2491: 2488: 2485: 2482: 2479: 2458:Amarhindustani 2453: 2452: 2451: 2450: 2386:Advaitastudent 2364:Amarhindustani 2359: 2358: 2333: 2332: 2331: 2330: 2329: 2328: 2327: 2326: 2318: 2276: 2275: 2247: 2197: 2196: 2195: 2194: 2193: 2192: 2186:comment added 2174:Amarhindustani 2166: 2133:Amarhindustani 2128: 2127: 2126: 2125: 2119: 2085:Amarhindustani 2081: 2080: 2073: 2072: 2043:Amarhindustani 2038: 2037: 2029: 2027: 2026: 1907:Advaitastudent 1888:Advaitastudent 1854: 1853: 1842:Amarhindustani 1836: 1835: 1832: 1829: 1826: 1823: 1820: 1817: 1764: 1763: 1756: 1747: 1746: 1743: 1738: 1737: 1736: 1719: 1701:. Notable per 1692: 1691: 1680: 1679: 1676: 1671: 1670: 1669: 1630: 1590: 1589: 1584: 1583: 1582: 1558:, just append 1543: 1542: 1531:Amarhindustani 1527: 1526: 1510:Amarhindustani 1500: 1499: 1496: 1491: 1480:Amarhindustani 1463: 1462: 1455: 1454: 1431: 1410: 1404:comment added 1384: 1383: 1350: 1349: 1338:Amarhindustani 1327: 1326: 1294:Amarhindustani 1280:Amarhindustani 1219: 1218: 1215: 1210: 1209: 1208: 1183: 1182: 1171:Amarhindustani 1146: 1145: 1142: 1137: 1136: 1135: 1134: 1133: 1132: 1131: 1130: 1129: 1121: 1095: 1094: 1054: 1053: 1052: 1051: 1050: 995: 965: 964: 963: 962: 923:Amarhindustani 906: 905: 876: 850: 820: 819: 808:Amarhindustani 757:Amarhindustani 743: 742: 739: 734: 733: 732: 724: 691: 652: 651: 637: 629: 591: 590: 573:Amarhindustani 545:Amarhindustani 521:Amarhindustani 493:Amarhindustani 452:Amarhindustani 426:Amarhindustani 424: 345: 344: 341: 336: 335: 334: 310: 309: 292:Amarhindustani 230:Amarhindustani 216: 215: 212: 207: 189: 188: 129: 124: 121: 120: 69: 42: 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1237: 1232: 1229: 1225: 1221: 1220: 1214: 1213: 1207: 1203: 1199: 1195: 1191: 1188: 1187: 1181: 1180: 1176: 1172: 1168: 1163: 1157: 1153: 1148: 1147: 1141: 1140: 1128: 1125: 1117: 1115: 1113: 1107: 1103: 1102: 1101: 1100: 1099: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1093: 1090: 1089: 1083: 1074: 1070: 1066: 1062: 1061:wp:notability 1058: 1055: 1049: 1045: 1041: 1036: 1035: 1034: 1030: 1026: 1022: 1018: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1009: 1005: 1000: 996: 994: 991: 990: 970: 967: 966: 961: 958: 957: 937: 936: 935: 934: 933: 932: 928: 924: 920: 916: 915:75.80.152.211 911: 904: 900: 896: 892: 891: 884: 880: 877: 874: 870: 866: 865:94.196.76.190 859: 855: 851: 848: 844: 840: 839:94.196.76.190 833: 829: 825: 824: 818: 817: 813: 809: 805: 801: 800:3)Jean Klein 798: 796: 792: 788: 783: 782: 781:9781592330102 779: 774: 770: 766: 762: 758: 754: 745: 744: 738: 737: 731: 728: 720: 718: 716: 710: 706: 702: 698: 697: 693:Reluctantly, 692: 690: 686: 682: 678: 677: 670: 666: 662: 658: 654: 653: 649: 646: 645: 635: 631: 630: 628: 624: 620: 616: 612: 607: 603: 599: 589: 586: 582: 578: 574: 570: 562: 558: 555: 554: 550: 546: 541: 540: 536: 531: 530: 526: 522: 518: 514: 509: 506: 502: 498: 494: 490: 482: 480: 479:very differnt 475: 473: 469: 465: 461: 457: 453: 448: 445: 441: 437: 435: 431: 427: 422: 421: 417: 416: 412: 411: 407: 402: 400: 396: 395: 391: 390: 386: 385: 381: 379: 375: 374: 370: 369: 365: 360: 357: 352: 347: 346: 340: 339: 333: 329: 325: 321: 318: 315: 314: 308: 305: 301: 297: 293: 289: 281: 280: 277: 274: 269: 267: 265: 260: 255: 252: 249: 246: 243: 239: 235: 231: 227: 218: 217: 211: 210: 206: 205: 201: 197: 193: 186: 181: 174: 170: 166: 162: 157: 153: 148: 144: 140: 136: 132: 131: 128: 125: 116: 110: 106: 102: 100: 96: 90: 86: 82: 78: 74: 70: 67: 63: 62: 59: 58: 55: 54: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 2902: 2891: 2880: 2871: 2854: 2843: 2832: 2821: 2810: 2799: 2788: 2777: 2760: 2757: 2734: 2698: 2692: 2663: 2658:Andrew Cohen 2629: 2626: 2623: 2615: 2607: 2586: 2573: 2557: 2519: 2516: 2471: 2454: 2446: 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643:MBisanz 611:Chebard 598:Chebard 450:Thanks 152:protect 147:history 52:MBisanz 2739:WP:BIO 2735:Delete 2668:, and 2604:above. 2595:, and 2418:Mvs 82 2416:) and 2402:Mishvs 2382:WP:SPA 2337:delete 2335:Still 2303:userfy 2250:Delete 2231:Mishvs 2212:Mishvs 2016:Sloane 1722:Delete 1703:WP:BIO 1699:Delete 1637:WP:BIO 1635:Fails 1633:Delete 1616:WP:BIO 1612:Delete 1587:Delete 1417:WP:BIO 1198:Sloane 1190:Delete 1025:Sloane 696:delete 657:delete 192:Delete 180:delete 156:delete 46:delete 2863:(PDF) 1594:Jwray 1576:stuff 1392:Jwray 1151:: --> 988:Spark 955:Spark 899:stuff 701:bitey 685:stuff 183:) – ( 173:views 165:watch 161:links 105:Note: 16:< 2747:talk 2725:talk 2682:talk 2656:and 2564:talk 2462:talk 2438:talk 2368:talk 2346:talk 2319:Cont 2289:talk 2269:talk 2235:talk 2216:talk 2201:Keep 2180:) 2178:talk 2160:talk 2137:talk 2113:talk 2089:talk 2066:talk 2047:talk 2020:talk 2010:and 1990:talk 1982:Keep 1967:talk 1948:talk 1926:Keep 1911:talk 1892:talk 1877:Keep 1868:talk 1846:talk 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