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It doesn't work that way. (a) Einstein did not write this and (b) even if he had, if he was writing about his own work, it would not count toward establishing notability. See my comments above. You cannot make your own work notable by writing about it yourself, no matter how wonderfully you write.
368:
I would say it is a DSL based on Scala, especially since it has added pedagogical tools and also translations of the DSLs to other languages than english (Swedish?). Professor Björn
Regnell writes (translation) "Kojo is the best tool, with a low barrier of entry, I have seen for making real text
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You have inverted my argument. The question is solely whether or not the source meets the requirements for GNG. If it does, then the author of the work is of little consequence. My example was to illustrate that it is the source we consider when citing, not the author. I'd be perfectly happy to
707:. At AfD, no one cares about your "argument" if the source consists of the author writing about his own work. Under the guidelines, to establish notability takes sources that are independent of the subject. Since Pant was a co-author of the article, it does not contribute toward satisfying
351:
Just to clarify, Kojo is not a programming language itself. It's a (computer programming based) learning environment for children, in the form of a software application, that uses the Scala
Language. So maybe the Kojo article needs to be called Kojo_(software).
168:
411:. Each of those words is significant. Different editors will interpret the guidelines differently but my rule of thumb to establish notability is on the order of a couple 1000-word articles in established publications
888:
Andy, is this necessary or helpful? Or is this non-guidelines-based strawman argument just one more gratuitously nasty and completely ad hominem example of why no one likes you or cares what you think?
459:
I looked for secondary sources and found a few. the
Odersky news piece mentioned in the article is only semi-independent, being coauthored by the creator of Kojo. The software has made it onto lists of
226:- which might help to establish notabilty. Also, please note that people I did not know added Kojo information to Knowledge in the first place - in the two articles where this information exists: the
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entertain arguments on SELF if you feed RW is a vanity press, or that you don't consider RW to meet the needs of GNG. But just because the author of an article is involved doesn't address its NOTE.
162:
468:; these are independent, and the second looks reliable, but neither is in-depth. My impression is that this software is up and coming and could easily become notable in time, like the
203:. Sources offered are all primary. I was unable to find any suitable sources by Googling. It's possible the subject may become notable in the future, but Knowledge is not a
323:. Because it is obviously not yet noteable enough to have its own page it could be merged with the page for Scala which seems to be more built up and is not being disputed.
476:, there just hasn't been enough time for the press and/or academics to make note of it. Regretfully, the article cannot stand. I recommend either merging a summary to
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article. That might itself be considered an argument in favor of notability! (The Kojo article is currently out of date. If it remains on
Knowledge, I'll update it)
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The author of Kojo here. Kojo is a promising open-source learning environment for children that is used worldwide. I have some links on this page:
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is just a matter of time. If the sources aren't there now because the subject is quite new, perhaps they will be in a month or so,
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by virtue of the fact that it consists of Pant writing about his own work. That makes it unhelpful in establishing notability.
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WTF is it with
Msnicki? "If I've never heard of it, it doesn't exist" yet again. I know you claim to live near Seattle, but not
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And
Einstein authored a lot of articles we quote all the time. At issue is not the author, but the source.
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or deletion with no prejudice to recreation when multiple reliable sources become available. Sorry, --
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based programming available for children, that is also usable all the way up to university level"
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so you or others can continue to work on the article in user space while you search for new sources.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Lacks reliable independent secondary sources to establish notability as required by
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503:, coverage at ReadWrite and techsupportalert and scala-lang.org show notability.
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Kojo (i.e., it's not just a mention in an article about something else.) The
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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Erring on the side of caution here, I'm opining that the ReadWrite article
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possible. This was not a great discussion, but vox populii est vox dei.
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319:- As far as i can tell this programming language is an offshoot from
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808:""Sources", for notability purposes, should be secondary sources"
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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in RW isn't suitable for establishing notability of Kojo. From
596:"this post was co-authored by Lalit Pant, the creator of Kojo ."
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and not helpful in establishing notability. From that article:
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and the article is certainly long enough and it's undeniably
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in which case the article can be reinstated without prejudice
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problem (but this is all that matters at AfD) is that it is
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Another option if the outcome is delete is to request
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711:. This is black letter and the reason you need to
532:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
285:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
920:). No further edits should be made to this page.
642:must take note. Please read the guidelines re:
413:by authors having no connection to the subject
253:list of Computing-related deletion discussions
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251:Note: This debate has been included in the
752:So, then, you are saying that ReadWrite is
713:stop arguing and read the guidelines first.
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568:the other CITEs mentioned here meet GNG.
427:. That's exactly what happened recently
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819:RW appears to be a reliable publication
389:At AfD, the only issue we consider is
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870:is either Microsoft or unimportant.
756:suitable for GNG. Is that correct?
462:Best Free Ways to Learn Programming
638:The essence of notability is that
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478:Educational programming languages
415:. Often, the difference between
232:Educational programming languages
224:http://wiki.kogics.net/kojo-world
816:The publication appears reliable
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
470:Scratch (programming language)
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934:Regnell, Björn (2013-04-29).
397:noteworthy but that multiple
321:Scala (programming language)
54:Scala (programming language)
78:Kojo (programming language)
70:Kojo (programming language)
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909:Please do not modify it.
64:15:59, 10 May 2013 (UTC)
32:Please do not modify it.
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472:. But right now, it is
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936:"Lär dig programmera!"
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939:. Retrieved
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326:— Preceding
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228:Kojo article
205:crystal ball
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50:no consensus
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798:I'm saying
482:Mark viking
399:WP:RELIABLE
163:free images
941:2013-05-06
868:everything
831:WP:PRIMARY
650:sources.
648:WP:PRIMARY
592:WP:PRIMARY
474:WP:TOOSOON
429:with Julia
421:taken note
409:taken note
914:talk page
257:• Gene93k
37:talk page
916:or in a
703:satisfy
523:Relisted
340:contribs
328:unsigned
276:Relisted
122:View log
39:or in a
891:Msnicki
835:Msnicki
716:Msnicki
701:doesn't
652:Msnicki
599:Msnicki
499:or per
464:and of
440:Msnicki
332:Eatmark
289:Mediran
209:Msnicki
169:WP refs
157:scholar
95:protect
90:history
804:WP:GNG
709:WP:GNG
705:WP:GNG
640:others
374:Oluies
201:WP:GNG
141:Google
99:delete
61:(tock)
823:about
562:Keep:
505:Diego
395:seems
184:JSTOR
145:books
129:Stats
116:views
108:watch
104:links
16:<
895:talk
876:talk
864:keep
839:talk
827:sole
762:talk
720:talk
671:talk
656:talk
646:and
617:talk
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586:The
574:talk
537:czar
509:talk
497:Keep
486:talk
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177:FENS
151:news
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82:edit
58:Shii
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