1861:
mushroomhead being the bigger, headlining band That statement just like EVERY statement you have made on here is simply to say " im not listing to you" as someone else pointed out. even though i disagree with some statements made by the logged in users as least can respect the fact that they give valid reasons for disagreeing and present it in a constructive manner. Its obvious you just have personal reasons for wanting the bands page taken down that have nothing to do with if they are notable or not. no matter what anyone says you either ignore it, or just say "no it isnt" human factors lab was NOT just a buy on band. There are ALWAYS expenses associated with tours as someone pointed out, its not like any band can walk in with bundle of cash and suddenly except to get on a national tour. it doesnt work that way. Bands are considered for tour the same way they are considered for Wiki. Who ever is putting the tour together looks at a list of criteria to see if the band should be on the tour. Examples=does the band have a simular fan base as the headliner, do they have a large enough fan base to contribute to overall ticket sales by being on the tour, do they have national radio/video play, do they have nation distro. This is why the press from the tour, and the tour itself is important in this conversation,and show that Human
Factors Lab is in fact a notable band. if you had some local garage band, and a stack of cash you would NOT just be able to get on a tour like this? make sense? also here are some link to back up what i am saying about how the order of the names doesnt mean anything its just however the person writing the article felt like putting them. these thinks show Human Factors Lab in multiple cities being listed in all different spots.
869:
Lab has toured the U.S. 7 times, performed with varies other national acts. our music is nationally distributed and avilable on iTunes/Amazon ect. these are things that your average "local band" has not and cannot do. The fact that the MTV and blabbermouth as well as a bout 50 other articles in the google search have us listed as part of the mushroomhead tour should be cause to not delte the page on its own in my opinion. we have performed in every state but 3, multi times,to crowds ranging between 500 and 8,000 people. We are on national radio, have national distro, and have received press as well. again things your average " local band" has not done. Im not here to say " oh we are so kool" just because its my band. I am simply saying it seems strange that the page would be deleted. I think the fact that the page was nominated as a result of vandalism should be taken into consideration as well. because its not like anyone in this debate thought to delete HFL because it didnt meet the guidelines. it was a purley a malicious attack. As far as arguing with " friends" that is not my intention.. i dont even know anyone else involved in this debate, it seems half of them are posting just using their IP address anyways. I am trying to simply state a case for not delting the page, based off of the facts involved.
2204:
Powell at that show and asked why Sev3n was not there. To my surprise I was told he was unable to play the guitar or keyboard parts, so he never played with them onstage. He was then moved over to the position of sound man and couldn't do that job either and eventually he went home. Being from
Florida I can also tell you that they draw maybe 50 people at the most locally. If you did deeper into the history of this band you will see that the majority of tours the band has done have been regional tours with other little known acts. The only tours the band has done that brought them any attention were the two buy ons with Mushroomhead. You can't buy any of their albums in a record store or Hot Topic. I've looked for them in both and they are nowhere to be found. The band in my opinion falls short of the requirements seeing as how I would only consider them to be a regional band that has had minimal press. Most of the press I have seen from them has been through a few local magazines here in Florida and a small internet buzz. They were lucky enough to have an opportunity to open for a national band on two different occasions but anybody with a band and enough money to throw around can do the same.
783:
much, until recently i have not been involved in the cration of upkeep of the bands wiki site so perhaps there is information that could be added to help end this debate. as you can see i am not the only one voting for
Keeping the page, and also not the only one wanting to delete it. I do feel that the decision should be a fair one. The nomination itself seems like it is not fair, since it was done as an act of vandalism in an attempt to " bringthemdown" them refering to Human Factors Lab" I dont feel that this debate was started with the best interest of Wiki in mind, but instead with malicious intentions. please understand my involvement in this debate is simple to point that out, as well as make sure it remains a fair debate. I truly believe that Human Factors Lab meets the notalibity guidlines for wiki, maybe they are not as well represented as they could be. I am trying to show that the evidence is there that they do meet them. even if its only meeting one of the 12, or 5 of the 12. I guess that is for us all to figure out
2865:
spell the name of someone who he's supposedly friends with and is the lead singer of the 'notable' band he's been in (which has already been proven to be untrue by a previous poster). And (to keep this a short rebuttal), Rag used to be locally pertinent. Not so much anymore. We're just saying that if there is question about its notability (which there is), give us something better! If I'm shown bigger proof about this band's qualifications to be here, then I'll gladly change my tune. But even people like me, completely outside the situation, can't find anything reputable online about this band! Maybe you can find something for us that will keep them here? Please, show me something concrete! And the mods are the ones who ultimately decide, so maybe instead of attacking people on here, you should spend some time digging up evidence for the mods so this band can stay here. Our comments don't mean much, but their opinion rules the day.
2550:
people outside of the scene, and if they've heard of them, we can consider the notability. Three: Where are these 'hundreds' of articles and interviews? I'm pretty sure that if I had something of such acclaim, I'd keep it. In fact, I do- and I did. I know exactly which edition of Gothic Beauty, or Side Line, or whatever...so what were you in, hmm? Give us a little proof, please! That is the point here, you know, so if you want to save your band's Wiki....show us! That's all you have to do, Sev3n! Give us one article in a NATIONAL publication, and all of this is moot. It all goes away! All arguments of band ethics, of the buy-ons, all of it will just stop. Also...what did you do to draw the ire of so many people? If so many are 'vandalizing' this page, I'd be pretty concerned with my own behaviour. Just a thought. But honestly...give us ONE article to prove us wrong. Something tells me you just can't, though.
1329:
reason KMFDM did the remix for Human
Factors Lab is because they share a lot of the same fans. Also note that Human Factors Lab and KMFDM also work with Viabrent Management, Also Steve white from KMFDM plays guitar for 16VOLT, Sev3n from Human Factors Lab also worked with 16VOLT.. This shows that they are in the same musical circles, playing a lot of the same venues, sharing a lot of the same fans. KMFDM is OBVIOUSLY a MUCH bigger band, but this doesnt mean that Human Factors Lab is NOT Notable.. This entire descussion was started as a personal ATTACK against the band and holds no merrit at all. actions like this WILL AND ARE destroying wikipedia. No one will donate to this site, or even want to come to this site.. the site itself will start be known as a joke and not a reliable source of information if vandalism like this is so easliy accepted and allowed
1502:
set forth by wikipedia, and those that are simply yelling "Nah nah nah! I can't hear you! those don't count because of blah blah blah" - In the hopes that, for whatever their reasoning, the page will be taken down. They are expending alot of time and effort into making sure this page DOES NOT stay up. Why? What vested interest do these people have, if not simply to sabotage the page as HFLSeven is stating. They are no better than forum trolls, hoping that, even though they are few, the loudness of their complaining will sway the argument to their side, so they, as a minority, can have things their way. I don't think that's right, and I think it's childish. Leave well enough alone and go back to your life, it will be the same whether or not HFL's wikipedia page stays up or not.
981:
printed articles and interview in college magazine or local music magazines, but these have been done on a national level. not just to the local area in which the band resides. in regards to the label, yes it is small in the sense of only haviing 9 bands. But the 2 bands listed above, Psychotica, and Team
Cybergiest on their own are very notable. Psychotica was a part of the lalapolooza tours ,as well as a few tour with Tool, and have a number of national and global released and distributed albums . So your claim about the labels and the bands is simply an assumption you made having little or no knowledge of the subject, and not researching the topic before making the statement.. its completly false.
931:
this. The "label" has only 9 bands "signed" to it, all of which as small or smaller than the band in question and thus not notable, which in no way qualifies them as a big independent outfit. The only mention of the band member working with any notable acts are in the form of remixes (which incidentally does not quality the members as being a part of the musical outfit), most of which are not mentioned by the bands the remix were for. Mention on blabbermouth is valid, however it is a web-blog and thus not a notable reference. The article has no citations, no valid links to support anything, and as such meets none of the wikipedia guidelines that are clearly pointed out on this page.
2924:
an exageration. With a little research there are several articles on the
Internet about the band,most of them as a result of the mushroomhead tours. Ranging from a simple mention of the name,brief paragraph,and full page write ups. I am guessing these would be likley to exist in just about every city they played during their last 2 tours. Some examples have already been posted. I am guessing this is what "hundreds of articles" is refering to. And if so. Then it's true. If they were saying they have hundreds of articles in rolling stone(which they never claimed). Then it would be false.
1579:
any third party main coverage of the group. Simply mentioning them as far as I have read does not qualify them. In the end, you claim that they should stay here because its a malicious attack. That may be what started it, but the point was brought up and is true, this band does not meet the criteria to be on the page. If an exception is made in this case, it would be used in arguments other bands have in order to keep their pages on here too (ie: Well that Human
Factors Lab group were able to stay on without providing valid notable references, so we should too).
2821:
my life, and while I was there, Rag magazine was THE music magazine to go to for any information about artists, shows, and everything music industry in South
Florida- Just because you disagree doesn't make it any less true. So it's Regional - So are newspapers, radio stations, etc. You've gone from disputing the band's notability to attacking the notability on each individual article or piece of evidence. You're asking for proof, people are providing it, and you reply with "that's not good enough, and this is why" every single time.
3321:
very important figure in this industrial music scene, as well as the music scene in general. in addition to to the bands they have on their roster, they also work on varies other projects with other bands. Is there a guidline, or a way to see if Toxic shock is " one of the more important indie labels" by wiki standards? I have stated my opinion of what i believe to be true, but i am sure one of the many unregistered IPs that have been chiming in and stopped to personally attacking will say " no it isnt" to just about anything i say.
1651:
chosen because they were notable for the tour. Wheather they paid a buy on fee(which all bands do,including mushroom when they bought onto ozfest and mayhem fest),is irrelivant. It's part how the music industry works. Not EVERY band can have KMFDM and other bands do remixes. And not EVER band can tour with mushroomhead and be mentioned on MTV or blabbermouth. HFL did these things because they ARE notable. NOT because they have money. The state of the music industry these days I'd be shocked if they even had money
1146:
16volt and the people he chose to fill the live positions were chosen because each of them held a degree of notability among the fans of
Industrial Music. Steve white(KMFDM), MIke Peoples(daniel Ash band) , Jason baznet(CHEMLAB) and Seven(Human Factors Lab) Im not sure why you would say " even if those were in fact valid" i included a link to the 16volt site. but you can also check ANY press release made in regards to the 16VOLT denial HWY tour and you will find the same information i am providing you with here.
1548:) who are judging the article's notability on its own merits (including its references, or lack thereof), not how much we like (or dislike) the band. Being new to Knowledge (XXG), to be sure, does not invalidate the newcomers' opinions; and if even one of them gets interested in Knowledge (XXG) from their experience here (good or bad) and comes on board to edit articles and help improve the project this mess will all be worth it. However, I strongly recommend that anyone new to Knowledge (XXG) and the
988:
printed reviews and articles, what to you is " notable"Â ? the looker magazine article didnt seem to be notable enough for you, and that has global distro. . The band is NOT using Wiki for self promotion, the band was not involved in the creation of the wiki site ,ad has had very little to do with it at all until the past 6 months, these edit over the past 6 months were only to update and have more acurate information, as well as to undo the many vandalism attacks that have taken place by EX members
816:"they're touring with Mushroomhead" or "they're playing tonight at Goths-R-Us", even if it's in Rolling Stone. This band was not discussed at all in the MTV or Blabbermouth articles, but only mentioned incidentally as a detail of Mushroomhead's tour. That's trivial coverage, and you won't get much traction trying to argue otherwise. If the author had nothing substantive to say about the band itself, its music, or its members, then the coverage is trivial.
224:
1765:
qualified and incredibly unreferenced. To reinstate would give many other groups ground to re-add themselves as well using this article as an example. From what I understand, the guidelines are tight for a reason. The wikipedia moderators themselves have asked for SPECIFIC references and answers directly, and they are typically dodged as no support for the claims can be provided.
1021:, so that it's clear who is saying what. If the "Fetish Chic Cheat Sheet" is the Looker magazine content that you're speaking of, then I don't understand how it's relevant to this band. Perhaps you can explain. If there are "hundreds of printed reviews and articles," then cite a few. In any case, please stop fighting with your mates and address yourself to the issues instead.
1934:
as in
Mushroomhead in comparison to a band like nine inch nails for example) really is only about money. If the buy-in had any merit, it would be called "Mushroomhead - With special guests (or featuring) Human factors lab". Your band was barely even a footnote in every single article. As stated several times, provide some actual notability, its been over 3 days.
1402:
band and I've been cut from other bands as well.Its not the best thing in the world to happen but it does and I know who it is and ya need ta stop before ya mess up a relationship even further than ya aready have.You're just hurting yourself in the long run. Pinky(to the people that are trying to delete the hfl site you know me cause you gave this nickname to me)
1288:- This "bringthemdown" stuff is obvious for what it is. No, I am not a member of this band, and a quick internet search provided the KMFDM discography page - I believe that alone is enough to satisfy wiki's notability guidelines. Whoever is putting so much effort into removing this band's page would probably be better served focusing their efforts elsewhere.
3038:- newspaper: Three page interview (interesting enough snippet on pg.2 sees the interviewer note they'd signed a deal with Toxic Shock Records, and asking how that came about. The impression is the interviewer considers the label to be one of some renown). A further three chunky paragraph album review. That they're regional doesn't exclude them.
2609:
in those masses there must be something that many of us have heard of. Maybe even something that's a little less regional- ie, something statewide as opposed to just one small area. Really, that's what I'm looking for. Some kind of recognition. And if you don't have it, that's fine- but can he please be honest about it?
3019:- Industrial Rock Magazine: Particularly in non 'commercial' areas, smaller scale press can gain solid repute over time. Established ten years; although online, I've not seen any reason to dismiss out of hand. The link is to an in depth interview of the band. The other link was a review of their album.
3369:
Hmm. The WP:BAND criterion reads: "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable)." I'm not sure how many performers are on the roster
3212:
I'd say they meet WP:BAND criterion 1 "Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable.". Even if we only count each of those sources (that've published multiple non-trivial works on them) just once, it'd still
2897:
The fact remains that the HUNDREDS of articles written about the band don't exist except for probably in their own minds. Also anybody with enough money to throw around can tour with "notable" bands. If this band were as big as they claim they wouldn't have to name drop as much as they do. They would
2864:
Look, if this band can come up with something that meets the Wiki requirements, I'll be first in line to change my vote. But I think we all understand that being mentioned once in passing does not qualify as 'notable', especially when the main defender and lead singer of the band can't even correctly
2820:
This is getting ridiculous...at this point, the band could post a full page article from Rolling Stone and you'd all STILL find a way to downplay that... Every SINGLE link that's been posted, when really only one is necesarry, gets attacked for its "notability"...I lived in South Florida for most of
2608:
Well, they can be, but lots are kindof fly-by-night publlications, and (living in the general area) Rag is one of those types. There just isn't enough journalistic integrity to lend credence to that being a major mention. However, that being said...if he has 'hundreds', why is that all we get? Surely
1722:
They were NOT a buy on opening band for the tours,and there was no co-Headliner. Mushroomhead was the only headliner and autumn offer and human factors lab were both part of the tour package with different opening bands every night. According to the wiki guidlines human factors lab was on a tour that
1578:
I have to bring up again that it is not a personal vendetta or anything of the sort. The fact that I present over and over again is the inability for this group to give notable references. Every "link" they have posted (of which you have to do some digging in this article here to find) do not contain
868:
i understand what you;re saying, I wasnt clear on exacly what was mean by " trivial". Thank you for clearing that up. I guess i don't fully agree with the defenition, i understand that the guideline these 12 guidelines in place to determine wheather a band is Notable. The facts are that Human Factors
637:
Another 3rd party here it is not the band responsible for the page vandalism it is it's past members who think that since they are not in the band anymore they feel like they should cause controversy within the band.. and as someone metioned the removal of DSA one question. Why? Both great bands with
457:
if anyone checks the history i think its obvious this is vandalism. Comments like " small weiner" and other childish things being added to it make this clear. I cant imagine the Human Factors Lab wiki page not being notable, perhaps there is information missing that could help? im not sure.. it seems
440:
It's been years since I worked on this article, I've no particular opinion on it. I did tend to think it was notable at the time I worked upon it, but whether it's truly notable, I'm not so sure. I'd be inclined to go with deletion for it if I was pushed, but it could easily go either way, I suspect.
3320:
I feel that Toxic Shock is an important indie label. Their roster is small but in addition to Human Factors Lab they do have notable label mates. Also given the state of the music industry these days most bands are chosing to stay completely indie, or work with Indie labels. Toxic Shock has become a
3228:
The majority of sources they are mentioned in are incidental. The Rag and Fabryka being the only exceptions. R.A.G. magazine, however has no valid reference link. Yes theres a magazine scan, but I was under the impression that in order for a link to be notable it needed to be referenced by a third
2923:
I don't understand why a debate on notability has turned into personal attacks. If you have a opnion to keep or delete. That's fine. But the personal attacks on the members of the band and the singer just take away from what ever point was. As far as the "hundreds of articles". That is probably
2842:
If the links were in fact notable and unquestionable, there would be no room for debate. The moderators themselves have pointed out many times now what they are looking for. If there were in fact HUNDREDS of articles written about the band, one with more notability shouldn't be so hard to find. Only
2743:
I would like to say that although its appreciated (As I am a representative of Deadstar Assembly), this is not a debate over that group or band. Please allow this page to be about Human Factors Lab, as its already a huge debate and I'd rather keep it easier for them to state their claims without too
2549:
Several things to be pointed out: A regional publication, even from someplace that you may not be from, is still a REGIONAL publication. Is it national? No? Then it's regional. Sorry. Two: Just because you've heard of the band does not mean, in the grand scheme of things, that a band is notable. Ask
2151:
Multiple people have shown multiple examples of how the band is notable by wiki standards. You can chose to ignore that or say deny it but the evidence is there and I'm sure someone with a nurtal position with weigh the actually examples and ignore those who are simply here to have the page deleted
1650:
There were opionions about the MTV and blabbermouth articles and counter opnions given as well. I belive they DO hold merrit. As far as buying onto tours and paying for remixes you are assuming that the only reason hfl was on these tours is because they paid. That is a false assumption. They were
1628:
It was already pointed out that the subject of the MTV and Blabbermouth (which, is a blog supported by user supported data, and thus not a true valid third party source of information) were about mushroomhead and NOT Human Factors Lab. They are simply named and not discussed, and thus incidental and
1602:
The MTV and blabberbouth mention hold merrit in the argument to keep the page. While it is true it is in the context of a tour headlined by mushroomhead, the fact that human factors lab was a part of the tour adds to thier notablity. They have done 2 seperate tours with mushroom as well as performed
1475:
This band has it's own we site. A who is search shows they have had it since 2000. The website has also fallen under attack,that's why it's a dead link. People have provided links to show the notabllity of the band. Saying "havnt provided one link" is true. More than one have been given. I think the
689:
6.Is an ensemble which contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a member of two or more independently notable ensembles.-The band is led only by one person and features rotating live members Seven has also worked closely with other bands such as Crossbreed,
672:
4.Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.-They have toured the U.S. 7 times, their 2 most recent tours with Mushroomhead received extensive amounts of press, a quick google search can show
2723:
There will not be any mentions on the bands MySpace or anywhere else because their "huge fanbase" is nothing more than small handfuls of people sprinkled across the east coast and midwest. By small I'd say somewhere between 5-10 per state and that's being generous. The band can barely draw in their
2177:
Actually, Only a few people have tried to say they are valid, but the MODERATORS keep confirming that they aren't. Read the history above, all I see are the mods continuing to say the band has not provided valid sources of notability. The main defensive posters here all share the same bad spelling,
1975:
Human Factors Lab is a good up and comming band that has been touring the past few years. The person who started this band is a good guy who truly cares about his music and his fans. He has giving his heart and soul into his songs and shows his heart to all of his fans. His band also to cares about
1933:
Nice try. 3 of those articles simply list the bands in alphabetical order, and the 4th one simply mentions the band as an opener. The blabbermouth and MTV articles went out of the way to list Human Factors Lab last. Also, buying on to tour is a very common practice. Buying on to a smaller tour (say
1684:
Both the MTV and Blabbermouth articles only mention Human Factors Lab name ONCE, and each time just listing them as being on the tours. Not a single sentence is written that talks about them in any other way. Seeing how they were also a buy-on opening band and not a co-headliner also shows they are
1501:
Ok, after spending a day away and coming back to this page, it is quite obvious that there are two distinct camps in this argument...Those who are arguing for the page to be maintained by providing insightful discussion and links showing their credibility side-by-side with the notability guidelines
2977:
Of the references you added, , , , , , and appear to be trivial coverage of performance dates, and is the Broward/Palm Beach New Times article I listed above, but what please is said in reference ? (And of course, please correct me if I've misrepresented the other references.) I don't agree that
2228:
early on due to the obvious bad faith nomination, followed by a renomination by an editor acting in good faith. It is as important (if not more) to discredit bad faith nominations as it is to discredit the opinions of single purpose accounts participating in the discussion. Since this is obviously
1764:
As the tour was not advertised as Mushroomhead and Human Factors lab (it was simply a Mushroomhead tour), the band was in fact just an opener. Side note: Web logs (such as blabbermouth and the MTV article which is a blog) are typically not viable sources of information. The band remains highly non
1145:
The Nature of 16volt, as well as many bands in the industrial rock or Industrial metal genres is that they are often led by one main person, and in a touring situation there are varies live touring members. examples of this would be NIN, KMFDM, Ministry, ect. Eric Powel is the driving force behind
782:
yes HFLSEV3N is seven from Human Factors Lab, and has been signed on every post made. I think i have just as much right to defend my position in this debate as any one else, And i am trying to do so in a way that is not only fair to Human Factors Lab, but fair to Wiki as well. i DONT use wiki veyr
2203:
I have heard of the band Human Factors Lab. Living in Florida I have seen the band a handful of times. I noticed that 16VOLT was brought up in this discussion. I saw 16VOLT on the Denial Highway Tour in Atlanta, GA at The Masquerade and Sev3n was not onstage with the band. I ended up meeting Eric
1401:
The Human Factors Lab wiki should'nt be deleted.They are an awesome band and this is just an attack from a previous band member(s) that has a major chip on the shoulder and needs to get over it cause 1. Its not worth it. 2. Its childish. and 3. These things happen.I know,I'm a vocalist for my own
980:
The articles that the band appears in are a mixture of Regional( or as stated "local") articles as well as national. The Looker Magazine article linked earlier is in fact a globally distributed release. The band has had a lot of regional press, but has done so on a national level. there have been
954:
I would also like to add that there is no notable print reviews (local outfits and blogs are far from a reputable source) on this group. The only mention a google search brings up for them are on sites/blogs/social sites that are run by the band themselves. It would appear that the group is using
516:
How could anyone say this band should be deleted? That makes no sense at all. What requirements are they not meeting? This is obviously just an attack. Is wiki just deleting bands now? I saw deadstar assembly got deleted. Another awesome band. Wiki must be circling the drain if they keep this up
1328:
by implying that Human Factors Lab is not notable you are also implying that KMFDM, as well as just about every band on wiki is not " notable" you are also implying that KMFDM will do a remix for any band out there with money,making them musical whores.. this is also VERY far from the truth. the
987:
The mentions on blabbermouth and MTV were simply examples. if internet sources are not valid there are just as many if not more print sources available,what citations ad valid links are needed? perhaps they could be added. You say no notable print reviews, as stated the band has had hundreds of
930:
The terms set forth by wikipedia clearly state that a band must provide NOTABLE REFERENCES. Not word of mouth, not local papers that no ones heard of, no internet radio play. The band claims to have national radio airplay, but no evidence of such was presented and a search provides no support on
1102:
information. As far as my involvement with 16VOLT and CROSSBREED i stated that i worked with both bands OUTSIDE of Human Factors Lab in addition to their remix work they did for HFL. I was part of the 16VOLT Denial HWY tour 2008 filling a number of roles, including live guitars, live keyboards,
2996:
Six and eight were already part of the article; eight is the label by the way. The Sarasota Herald-Tribune is incidental; it's just a citation on the award nominee point. The refs I added addressed {{fact}} tags placed in the article, e.g. sourced their first live performance being at South
1860:
The order of their listing has NOTHING to do with how notable they are.They order they performed also changed every night as well. Some nights they were the first band on.. somenight they went on right before the headliner. all the support bands were of upcoming equal national standing, with
2448:
nomination made with malicious intent) can (and should, in my opinion) be speedily closed. However, this is an exceptional circumstance since the bad faith deletion attempt is validated by deletion policy. I'm not saying it's a bad nomination in itself. I don't think it would make sense to
1101:
I stated before that i did not crate the wiki page, and up until the last 6 months, i have not been involved in the editing, this fact can be seen by viewing the dit history. Most of my edits have been a combination of undoing vandalism, as well as updating the page to current and correct
666:
1.Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician or ensemble itself and reliable.,The band has had articles and interview in many national and regional publications including looker magazine, rag magazine, City Link,new times,
2373:. It's up to each editor to decide how these two references contribute to notability, but to characterize Fabryka as "sketchy" is unfounded. Tell us, which genre-specific publications could establish the notability of this band? You've said that Fabryka isn't relevant, but what then is
1438:
resorting to attacking wikipedia with threats of "No one will donate if this continues" only shows an unprofessional approach on the matter. The mods have been simply asking for reference points, and the group has none to show. All they seem to have are words, and not facts.
774:
The Subject of the MTV and Blabbermouth articles are in response to the #4 of the 12 guidelines set forth by wikipedia.the band " Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign
1313:
that KMFDM isn't notable?! And what could that possibly have to do with whether or not Human Factors Lab is notable? They got paid to do a remix; that doesn't make the other band notable, it just shows they (or their label) have the money to pay KMFDM to do a remix.
3390:
I have also spoken, in passing, to several other artists on the Toxic Shock label, and they have mentioned that the owner is considering dropping HFL over 'undisclosed legal issues'. So it may be that the label thing is moot regardless. Just wanted to add that in.
1097:
Yes, I have been a major part of this debate, but im not sure how that is a conflict of interest, please explain? Are you saying to do not have a place in this debate? i feel that i have offered fair and factual evidence and examples of why the page should not be
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distinct camps. Two of those camps appear to be newcomers to Knowledge (XXG): fans and/or members of the band who want the article kept, and the "enemies" of the band who want the article deleted. The third camp is actual Wikipedians (I make that to be
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All this talk about what this band has done, and yet not one single link to prove validity has been posted. If they are as big as they claim to be, there would be many EASILY obtainable sources, but the band member himself is unable to provide a single
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Would like to point out that both articles are hosted on the same site. The site itself is sketchy. Hosted on a free server (doesn't even have its own domain) as listed on its main page, and run by a single user. A pretty far stretch for notability.
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Bad Faith or not, they are being shown to be invalid for the site. The original nomination may have in fact been done maliciously, but should the band get a "Free pass" that allows them to remain on here even tho they do not meet the criteria?
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on tours with many other "notable" bands. Your average "local" band does not and can not do this. I would think the criteria needing to be net to be on several major national tours is probably much more severe that the critera set forth by wiki
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This debate is being held by the band singer himself as is observed by the username, which is a conflict of interest, and has been the main updater of it for a while now, so the statement about how he has had little involvement is also false.
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As for the statement about how the bands large fan base relies on wikipedia for news and updates, that is NOT the purpose if wikipedia. Things such as that are left for a bands personal web site..which.. incidentally, this band has none (dead
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This bands website has fallen under vandalism attacks by previous members of the band. This deletion request is a part of these attacks and should be treated as an attempt to vandalize the bands wikipedia article, as well as wikipedia itself
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Mushroomhead was in the fact the headliner of these tours, Human Factors Lab(toxic Shock Records) and Autumn Offering(Victory records) were also apart of the same tour.In addition to Toxic Shock, Human Factors Lab also works with Viabrent
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party and not the band itself. The linked images are on the bands own myspace, and thus not a secondary source in my opinion. Photoshop is a wonderful thing, afterall. (not saying this is the case here, but putting it as an example).
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5. Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).Toxic Shock
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say that the label is not notable. What I said was, the notability of the label is undecided because there has never been reason to consider the question. Please don't misrepresent what I've said. The identity of
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and one is from a mobile phone IP address. Also as said above, If you wish to defend yourself with any merit, it would be wise to REGISTER an account and post as yourself instead of one person on various IPs.
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is only relevant to evaluating what s/he said about Sev3n's role in this band and his/her relationship to other notable bands, and then just barely relevant because what s/he said must still be supported with
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Also to note is that Human Factors Lab is listed LAST in the list of bands that were on tour with them, which if that doesn't make them simply a buy-on opener, it proves they got no coverage on the matter.
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I think it is safe to that that although Human Factors Lab does not meet ALL 12 of the criteria, (to be notable they only have to meet one,)they do in fact meet 5 right off the bat). Statements made by
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to back it up, it's just so much hot air. Given that, you're well-advised to focus your effort on producing some of those "hundreds of printed reviews and articles" instead of arguing with your friends.
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Additionally there are the six regional newspapers already added to the article citing existing small points. Last, primary sourcing from the label; plus, a linked page of band founding member Seven on
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bands members working with notable acts, as stated Seven has worked with both 16VOLT, and CROSSBREED. these bands ALSO did remixes but his work with theses bands was independant of Human Factors Lab
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HFL is an ever growing band and has many fans. This page should not be deleted because it has a large fan base and people rely on HFL wiki to get the information they need about this awesome band.
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The point still stands that the label is by far not major, nor notable in any way. Working on a remix for a band does NOT make them a member of the groups, and thus the original statement stands.
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the art they are doing and are very commited to it and are in it for the love of it not the money. So I, a human factor lab fan is asking you to keep this page up for this hard working band
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own home state. If Deadstar Assembly had their page removed so should Human Factors Lab. At least Deadstar has had ads in real magazines like Guitar World and can actually draw a crowd.
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I suppose; they've some coverage in regional media, and further research in the specialist press would likely yield more in depth material to develop the article. I added a few refs. –
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Touring as a fill in member of a band isn't exactly notable. As for the involvement in/with other groups, even if those were in fact valid, there is no proof/citations on the matter.
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3022:"Dane101.com": Likely not especially reliable, but would in no way be used to support notability. Alongside reliable sources, the piece could source a simple claim x played with y.
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If this band was as big as they say they are, with such a huge following, than their failed attempt at rallying their fans to come here and assist would have had a bigger showing.
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11.Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.-Human Factors Lab has regular radio play national, as well as varies podcasts such as razorblade dance floor,
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As you are in the band itself, you are of course going to see yourself as valid. That aside, without a single valid citation, you have actually fulfilled 0 of the 12 guidelines.
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There isn't even a single comment made on the bands OFFICIAL MYSPACE post to show support over this bands notability. Their large fanbase must all be on vacation or something.
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Didn't you say yesterday that "f you wish to defend yourself with any merit, it would be wise to REGISTER an account and post as yourself instead of one person on various IPs."
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3075:, it remains a publication established for a decade. They've, whatever else, interviewed significant parts of the industrial rock and industrial metal music scene; example:
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My concern with the nomination is that anonymous users usually don't make their first and only contributions to Knowledge (XXG) by listing an AfD. Bad faith nominations (
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There are no links to support any of the claims being made. One un-cited publication does not make you valid by any means. College and local papers are also not notable.
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matters beyond a certain point; if they'd a couple've bands period, that'd be different. Of theirs, it's pretty much accepted two are Notable (22%); three if you count
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to better understand what we're talking about when we say things about "notability" and the like, and to better keep their arguments focused in a productive direction.
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a notable independent label has a far larger roster of artists (toxic shock has a whole...9). For example, metropolis records. Independent, lots more signed artists.
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comments about no I e coming to wiki are true. It's not a threat. It's an observation on how actions like this in recent months is making people unhappy with wiki.
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Erm, I personally think this is asinine - It's an article of information about a band that IS NOTABLE - It's notable by the fact that an argument is even occurring.
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I gave no weight to the SPA nomination, but evaluated the article as I saw it. No that there are acceptable "delete" !votes, "Speedy keep" is not an option. --
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does not fit the requirement. Buying on to a tour does not make a band notable, the same as paying a band to do a remix for you..regardless of a shared genre.
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Total 3rd party here. I don't think it should be taken down. They have national noteriaty. They have played w big name big lable bands. I say keep it! Loogie.
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statements here ("doesn't even have its own "). Fabryka may well the work of a single user, but it does have a ten year history reporting on its chosen genre
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and 16VOLT. They also release a remix album with remixes by Crossbreed, 16VOLT,KMFDM, BILE, Team cybergiest, as well as many other national " notable" bands.
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3071:'zine again is in depth coverage. They cover industrial rock and industrial metal music. On the question of their significance, although not on par with
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personal vendetta or not, the point is still that this group is unable to provide an ounce of credible truth that they are in fact notable for the site.
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I modeled their merch, & they let me keep it. So not only do they have good music, but they give out free stuff. Might as well keep 'em around :P
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849:. An unseen wiki-immortal will decide the matter wiki-wisely based on the substance of our arguments. Unsubstantiated rhetoric isn't helpful; without
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wikipedia as a self promotion tool (which is against the terms of the site), as well as a way to seem credible to outfits that see that they aren't.
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is satisfied, though, because I think the label needs more than a two notable performers before it can be "one of the more important indie labels."
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are indeed false by saying the band does not meet the notability guidlines, Perhaps more research before makeing such statements would have helped
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that support what you say. Certainly no one else is going to Google "seven" hoping to confirm what you've said. I think too it's fair to ask, is
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3267:. Thank you for the clarification about Dean guitars; their endorsement criteria in no way affect validity of the remainder of my points. –
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Multiple exceptions in other words. No, there's no need to provide online links to newspaper or other secondary sources according to the
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That's in the region of 30 interviews with often particularly prominent artists or groups. For me, that goes to establish significance.
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received national press. This meets the notability guidlines set by wiki. As do many other examples given in this debate
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I agree. I'm just stating that by comparison Deadstar has more credibility. I'm all for the deletion of the HFL page.
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can cite some of those "hundreds of printed reviews and articles" I'll reconsider my !vote. I'm frankly puzzled by
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fairly complete. perhaps there is a way to help the page, instead of lettering Wikipeda fall victim to vandalism.
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coverage found by Google News is in fact copied from Knowledge (XXG) itself. Other results are false positives. -
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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Also - As KMFDM is inarguably a "notable" artist, Wiki's own page for KMFDM's discography references the band...
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be able to stand on their own accomplishments. Not ride on the coat tails of bands that actually do something.
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posting one source shows that the group in fact has little coverage and as such, do not belong on wikipedia.
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3376:(evaluating pre-Internet 'underground performance artists' can be hard); or four, when you count this one. –
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is a notable indie label. HFLs label mates include psychotica, and Team Cybergiest featuring Angel from Dope
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Dean guitars lists every artist they endorse, regardless of their significance, on a spotlighted page.
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be two; more, if you factor in the reviews and (albeit smaller) New Times Broward-Palm Beach piece. –
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Thanks for the heads-up w/the periods in RAG. A search on that brought their site up. Their issue
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http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=2364111&blogId=528345635
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I know and completely agree. However I do think you're using the term "!votes" rather loosely.
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and this is clearly a bad faith nomination. Why is any weight being given to this nomination?
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Okay, though it's basically hearsay, so we wouldn't be able to factor it into any decision. –
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Is there some reason a regional publication can't be a reliable source? The R.A.G. interview
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as WP defines that term. Nor does it matter how many say 'yea' and how many 'nay'. This is
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Please don't toss in facts and figures without citing sources to support what you say.
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I think it's fair to include the Deadstar Assembly supporter(s) as interested parties.
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True as that may or may not be, that still doesn't validate them for wikipedia.
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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Whether the nomination was "fair" is irrelevant. All that matters is, are there
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2033:, find some third party coverage, request userfication, and start again. --
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1104:] Also worked in the studio with crossbreed on their New Slave Nation EP.
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Have you changed your opinion, or do your own views as an IP lack merit?
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website, who apparently thought him sufficiently notable to spotlight.
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newspaper interview is clearly in depth. Likewise, the album review.
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This band is in no way valid by the terms set by Knowledge (XXG).
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I'm afraid you'll have to be more specific than that (please see
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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In the future, please sign your edits with four tildes (~~~~),
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3013:: Here's a recap of sources posted here—not used in article:
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not the case, I have to say delete due to the fact that they
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Does this automatically mean that if a group is endorsed?
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249:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
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lets anyone verify the interview in the (June '08) issue. –
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to carry weight in this discussion. But then, so do yours.
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no indication that this band meets any of the criteria at
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There is indication that this band meets the criteria at
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among Knowledge (XXG) contributors. Knowledge (XXG) has
2266:. I found only two sources that discuss the band at all
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list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions
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under qualified to meet the notability for this page.
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IN regards to the Notability as set forth by wikipedia,
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The subject of the MTV and Blabbermouth articles is
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561:You vandalized articles in two of your three edits
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1241:). Exactly which criterion do they meet and how?
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
3426:). No further edits should be made to this page.
2285:notable? What does that have to do with motive?
186:non-notable/non-reputable sources and coverage
269:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
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2594:, but in my opinion one such is not enough.
2501:http://www.musicmaniac.de/tin/magazines.html
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392:: This debate has been included in the
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18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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366:the music group notability guideline
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2152:without showing any real cause.
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3122:Voltage 2.3: Remixed and Revisited
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2214:19:47, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
2194:17:19, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
2168:12:44, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
2116:01:39, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
2095:07:10, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
2070:06:18, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
2043:02:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
2017:00:31, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
1992:00:06, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
1950:06:29, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
1893:06:05, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
1827:02:25, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
1781:02:15, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
1739:00:52, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
1701:00:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
1667:23:17, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1645:22:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1619:22:02, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1595:21:46, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1570:21:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1518:21:16, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1492:18:05, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1455:09:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1418:01:02, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1374:00:45, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1345:00:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
1324:22:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
1304:21:46, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
1275:21:41, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
1251:21:40, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
1228:20:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
1202:20:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
1167:20:52, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
1141:20:45, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
1125:20:40, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
1091:23:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
1060:20:22, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
1031:20:34, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
1009:20:07, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
971:19:24, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
947:19:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
918:20:55, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
885:00:22, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
864:23:15, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
804:20:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
770:20:15, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
726:18:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
654:14:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
631:05:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
576:05:24, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
556:04:59, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
533:04:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
508:01:33, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
479:23:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
451:20:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
433:17:33, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
409:20:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
382:15:27, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
351:13:17, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
196:03:00, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
638:great followings.. Thanks
3443:
2958:of "Team Cybergeist", and
2513:http://www.movinghands.net
2509:http://www.side-line.com/
3419:Please do not modify it.
3120:, Left Spine Down album
2800:judged on its own merits
2505:http://www.regenmag.com/
1556:and then carefully read
566:. What brings you here?
32:Please do not modify it.
3138:Michael J. Carrasquillo
2453:the discussion at all,
1395:) 7 February 2010 (UTC)
679:that covered the tours.
608:single purpose accounts
301:; accounts blocked for
271:single-purpose accounts
241:policies and guidelines
2052:single purpose account
3088:newsitem, Brand X.'s
2577:few or no other edits
2050:. The nominator is a
1469:few or no other edits
610:. Strictly speaking,
341:). It is listed now.
213:few or no other edits
3265:Verifiability policy
3148:, Mick Ronson album
2579:outside this topic.
1471:outside this topic.
812:Trivial coverage is
215:outside this topic.
3134:Mark Gemini Thwaite
3057:Depth of coverage:
1552:process first read
253:by counting votes.
232:not a majority vote
2792:Paid advertisement
676:, and Blabbermouth
44:The result was
3354:comment added by
3345:
3328:comment added by
3311:
3248:comment added by
2942:
2930:comment added by
2849:comment added by
2827:comment added by
2768:
2751:comment added by
2664:comment added by
2639:comment added by
2580:
2521:comment added by
2339:comment added by
2184:comment added by
2158:comment added by
2085:comment added by
2007:comment added by
1982:comment added by
1940:comment added by
1896:
1879:comment added by
1817:comment added by
1771:comment added by
1729:comment added by
1691:comment added by
1657:comment added by
1635:comment added by
1621:
1609:comment added by
1585:comment added by
1508:comment added by
1482:comment added by
1472:
1445:comment added by
1408:comment added by
1396:
1387:comment added by
1364:comment added by
1347:
1335:comment added by
1294:comment added by
1277:
1265:comment added by
1218:comment added by
1170:
1153:comment added by
1128:
1111:comment added by
1050:comment added by
1012:
995:comment added by
961:comment added by
937:comment added by
887:
875:comment added by
807:
790:comment added by
729:
712:comment added by
644:comment added by
616:Deadstar Assembly
546:comment added by
523:comment added by
511:
494:comment added by
482:
465:comment added by
423:comment added by
411:
397:
334:
333:
330:
257:assume good faith
216:
67:Human Factors Lab
59:Human Factors Lab
3434:
3421:
3375:
3366:
3344:
3322:
3309:
3260:
3150:Play Don't Worry
3086:Bit Riot Records
3026:Blabbermouth.net
2956:Angel Bartolotta
2861:
2839:
2767:
2745:
2676:
2651:
2562:
2533:
2495:Print and web -
2470:
2351:
2246:
2196:
2170:
2141:
2097:
2067:
2019:
1994:
1952:
1895:
1873:
1829:
1783:
1741:
1703:
1669:
1647:
1597:
1520:
1494:
1458:
1457:
1420:
1376:
1306:
1230:
1169:
1147:
1127:
1105:
1079:reliable sources
1062:
1011:
989:
973:
949:
851:reliable sources
839:reliable sources
806:
784:
754:reliable sources
728:
706:
656:
558:
535:
510:
488:
481:
459:
435:
398:
360:per nomination.
328:
316:
300:
284:
265:
235:, but instead a
226:
219:
198:
181:
180:
166:
118:
108:
90:
34:
3442:
3441:
3437:
3436:
3435:
3433:
3432:
3431:
3430:
3424:deletion review
3417:
3371:
3349:
3323:
3314:
3243:
3190:The Rabid Whole
3186:Stiff Valentine
3182:Society Burning
3170:Revolting Cocks
2844:
2822:
2746:
2744:much clutter.
2659:
2634:
2516:
2465:
2459:
2375:industrial rock
2334:
2241:
2235:
2179:
2153:
2136:
2130:
2080:
2062:
2056:
2002:
1977:
1935:
1874:
1812:
1766:
1724:
1686:
1652:
1630:
1580:
1503:
1477:
1440:
1403:
1359:
1289:
1213:
1148:
1106:
1045:
990:
956:
932:
785:
707:
703:Smerdis of Tlön
639:
541:
518:
489:
460:
418:
374:Smerdis of Tlön
318:
306:
290:
274:
261:sign your posts
123:
114:
81:
65:
62:
37:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
3440:
3438:
3429:
3428:
3413:
3388:
3387:
3386:
3385:
3384:
3383:
3367:
3356:68.223.229.112
3306:
3292:
3291:
3290:
3289:
3288:
3287:
3274:
3250:68.223.229.112
3233:
3232:
3231:
3230:
3223:
3222:
3221:
3220:
3211:
3209:
3076:
3065:
3055:
3054:
3053:
3045:
3039:
3033:
3023:
3020:
3007:
3006:
3005:
3004:
2974:
2973:
2944:
2943:
2932:32.134.114.147
2920:
2919:
2918:
2917:
2916:
2915:
2914:
2913:
2912:
2911:
2886:
2885:
2884:
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2862:
2818:
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2433:
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2430:
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2428:
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2402:
2401:
2400:
2399:
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2396:
2395:
2357:
2356:
2355:
2354:
2353:
2352:
2325:
2324:
2323:
2322:
2298:
2297:
2252:
2251:
2239:
2231:aren't notable
2218:
2217:
2200:
2199:
2198:
2197:
2172:
2171:
2148:
2147:
2146:
2145:
2144:
2143:
2134:
2121:
2120:
2119:
2118:
2101:
2100:
2099:
2098:
2073:
2072:
2060:
2045:
2023:
2022:
2021:
2020:
1996:
1995:
1972:
1971:
1970:
1969:
1968:
1967:
1966:
1965:
1964:
1963:
1962:
1961:
1960:
1959:
1958:
1957:
1956:
1955:
1954:
1953:
1912:
1911:
1910:
1909:
1908:
1907:
1906:
1905:
1904:
1903:
1902:
1901:
1900:
1899:
1898:
1897:
1843:
1842:
1841:
1840:
1839:
1838:
1837:
1836:
1835:
1834:
1833:
1832:
1831:
1830:
1795:
1794:
1793:
1792:
1791:
1790:
1789:
1788:
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1786:
1785:
1784:
1751:
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1749:
1748:
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1746:
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1744:
1743:
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1711:
1710:
1709:
1708:
1707:
1706:
1705:
1704:
1675:
1674:
1673:
1672:
1671:
1670:
1623:
1622:
1611:32.128.250.131
1599:
1598:
1575:
1574:
1573:
1572:
1522:
1521:
1498:
1497:
1496:
1495:
1436:
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1428:
1427:
1422:
1421:
1398:
1397:
1378:
1377:
1355:
1354:
1353:
1352:
1351:
1350:
1349:
1348:
1309:Who here even
1279:
1278:
1256:
1255:
1254:
1253:
1232:
1231:
1204:
1182:
1181:
1180:
1179:
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1177:
1176:
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1174:
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1171:
1099:
1095:
1094:
1093:
1041:
1038:
1035:
1034:
1033:
985:
982:
975:
974:
951:
950:
927:
926:
925:
924:
923:
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921:
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895:
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891:
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888:
826:
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824:
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822:
821:
820:
819:
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776:
694:
691:
687:
680:
670:
663:
662:
658:
657:
634:
633:
581:
580:
579:
578:
548:68.171.234.186
537:
536:
513:
512:
484:
483:
454:
453:
437:
436:
413:
412:
385:
384:
354:
353:
332:
331:
227:
184:
183:
120:
116:AfD statistics
61:
56:
42:
41:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
3439:
3427:
3425:
3420:
3414:
3412:
3409:
3405:
3404:
3403:
3402:
3398:
3394:
3382:
3379:
3374:
3373:Mikee Plastik
3368:
3365:
3361:
3357:
3353:
3347:
3346:
3343:
3339:
3335:
3331:
3327:
3319:
3318:
3317:
3313:
3312:
3305:
3301:
3297:
3294:
3293:
3286:
3283:
3279:
3275:
3273:
3270:
3266:
3262:
3261:
3259:
3255:
3251:
3247:
3241:
3237:
3236:
3235:
3234:
3227:
3226:
3225:
3224:
3219:
3216:
3207:
3203:
3199:
3195:
3191:
3187:
3183:
3179:
3175:
3171:
3167:
3163:
3159:
3155:
3151:
3147:
3143:
3139:
3135:
3131:
3127:
3123:
3119:
3115:
3111:
3107:
3103:
3099:
3095:
3094:Worm Infested
3091:
3090:Do They Hurt?
3087:
3083:
3079:
3074:
3073:Rolling Stone
3070:
3066:
3063:
3059:
3058:
3056:
3051:
3046:
3043:
3040:
3037:
3034:
3031:
3027:
3024:
3021:
3018:
3015:
3014:
3012:
3009:
3008:
3003:
3000:
2995:
2994:
2993:
2989:
2985:
2981:
2978:element 5 of
2976:
2975:
2972:
2969:
2965:
2961:
2957:
2953:
2949:
2946:
2945:
2941:
2937:
2933:
2929:
2922:
2921:
2909:
2905:
2901:
2896:
2895:
2894:
2893:
2892:
2891:
2890:
2889:
2888:
2887:
2876:
2872:
2868:
2863:
2860:
2856:
2852:
2848:
2841:
2840:
2838:
2834:
2830:
2826:
2819:
2813:
2809:
2805:
2801:
2797:
2793:
2789:
2788:
2787:
2786:
2785:
2784:
2782:
2778:
2774:
2770:
2769:
2766:
2762:
2758:
2754:
2750:
2742:
2741:
2740:
2739:
2735:
2731:
2727:
2722:
2719:
2718:
2715:
2711:
2707:
2703:
2699:
2696:
2693:
2689:
2685:
2682:
2681:
2675:
2671:
2667:
2663:
2657:
2656:
2655:
2654:
2650:
2646:
2642:
2638:
2632:
2628:
2627:
2620:
2616:
2612:
2607:
2606:
2605:
2601:
2597:
2593:
2589:
2586:
2585:
2584:
2583:
2578:
2574:
2570:
2566:
2561:
2557:
2553:
2548:
2545:
2544:
2532:
2528:
2524:
2520:
2514:
2510:
2506:
2502:
2498:
2494:
2493:
2492:
2491:
2490:
2489:
2488:
2487:
2486:
2485:
2474:
2471:
2469:
2468:
2467:
2456:
2452:
2447:
2443:
2442:
2441:
2440:
2439:
2438:
2437:
2436:
2435:
2434:
2425:
2421:
2417:
2413:
2410:
2409:
2408:
2407:
2406:
2405:
2404:
2403:
2394:
2390:
2386:
2382:
2381:
2380:Rolling Stone
2376:
2372:
2369:
2365:
2364:
2363:
2362:
2361:
2360:
2359:
2358:
2350:
2346:
2342:
2338:
2331:
2330:
2329:
2328:
2327:
2326:
2321:
2317:
2313:
2309:
2305:
2302:
2301:
2300:
2299:
2296:
2292:
2288:
2284:
2283:
2278:
2274:
2273:user:HFLSev3n
2270:
2268:
2265:
2261:
2257:
2254:
2253:
2250:
2247:
2245:
2244:
2243:
2232:
2227:
2223:
2220:
2219:
2215:
2211:
2207:
2202:
2201:
2195:
2191:
2187:
2183:
2176:
2175:
2174:
2173:
2169:
2165:
2161:
2160:32.128.250.14
2157:
2150:
2149:
2142:
2140:
2139:
2138:
2127:
2126:
2125:
2124:
2123:
2122:
2117:
2113:
2109:
2105:
2104:
2103:
2102:
2096:
2092:
2088:
2084:
2077:
2076:
2075:
2074:
2071:
2068:
2066:
2065:
2064:
2053:
2049:
2046:
2044:
2040:
2036:
2032:
2028:
2025:
2024:
2018:
2014:
2010:
2006:
2000:
1999:
1998:
1997:
1993:
1989:
1985:
1984:173.89.247.10
1981:
1974:
1973:
1951:
1947:
1943:
1939:
1932:
1931:
1930:
1929:
1928:
1927:
1926:
1925:
1924:
1923:
1922:
1921:
1920:
1919:
1918:
1917:
1916:
1915:
1914:
1913:
1894:
1890:
1886:
1882:
1878:
1872:
1869:
1866:
1863:
1859:
1858:
1857:
1856:
1855:
1854:
1853:
1852:
1851:
1850:
1849:
1848:
1847:
1846:
1845:
1844:
1828:
1824:
1820:
1816:
1809:
1808:
1807:
1806:
1805:
1804:
1803:
1802:
1801:
1800:
1799:
1798:
1797:
1796:
1782:
1778:
1774:
1770:
1763:
1762:
1761:
1760:
1759:
1758:
1757:
1756:
1755:
1754:
1753:
1752:
1740:
1736:
1732:
1731:32.128.250.70
1728:
1721:
1720:
1719:
1718:
1717:
1716:
1715:
1714:
1713:
1712:
1702:
1698:
1694:
1690:
1683:
1682:
1681:
1680:
1679:
1678:
1677:
1676:
1668:
1664:
1660:
1659:32.128.146.49
1656:
1649:
1648:
1646:
1642:
1638:
1634:
1627:
1626:
1625:
1624:
1620:
1616:
1612:
1608:
1601:
1600:
1596:
1592:
1588:
1584:
1577:
1576:
1571:
1567:
1563:
1559:
1555:
1551:
1547:
1543:
1539:
1535:
1530:
1526:
1525:
1524:
1523:
1519:
1515:
1511:
1507:
1500:
1499:
1493:
1489:
1485:
1484:32.128.216.12
1481:
1474:
1473:
1470:
1466:
1462:
1456:
1452:
1448:
1444:
1437:
1434:
1430:
1429:
1424:
1423:
1419:
1415:
1411:
1407:
1400:
1399:
1394:
1390:
1386:
1380:
1379:
1375:
1371:
1367:
1363:
1357:
1356:
1346:
1342:
1338:
1334:
1327:
1326:
1325:
1321:
1317:
1312:
1308:
1307:
1305:
1301:
1297:
1293:
1287:
1283:
1282:
1281:
1280:
1276:
1272:
1268:
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758:User:HFLSev3n
755:
751:
747:
743:
739:
738:WP:notability
735:
731:
730:
727:
723:
719:
715:
711:
704:
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695:
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688:
685:
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635:
632:
628:
624:
620:
617:
613:
609:
605:
601:
597:
593:
589:
588:BringThemDown
586:
583:
582:
577:
573:
569:
565:
563:
560:
559:
557:
553:
549:
545:
539:
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210:
206:
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201:BringThemDown
197:
193:
189:
188:BringThemDown
179:
175:
172:
169:
165:
161:
157:
154:
151:
148:
145:
142:
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136:
133:
129:
126:
125:Find sources:
121:
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106:
102:
98:
94:
89:
85:
80:
76:
72:
68:
64:
63:
60:
57:
55:
54:
51:
47:
40:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
3418:
3415:
3389:
3308:
3295:
3198:Tommy Victor
3154:Murder Metal
3130:Marc Jameson
3098:Charles Levi
3072:
3068:
3061:
3050:Dean Guitars
3041:
3035:
3025:
3016:
3010:
2947:
2926:— Preceding
2851:65.2.198.190
2829:70.118.93.33
2720:
2694:
2683:
2666:76.109.42.91
2641:65.2.198.190
2546:
2523:65.2.198.190
2462:
2461:
2460:
2454:
2450:
2445:
2378:
2367:
2341:65.2.198.190
2280:
2255:
2238:
2237:
2236:
2221:
2186:65.2.198.190
2133:
2132:
2131:
2087:65.2.198.190
2059:
2058:
2057:
2047:
2026:
2009:76.109.42.91
1942:76.109.42.91
1819:65.2.198.190
1773:76.109.42.91
1693:76.109.42.91
1637:65.2.198.190
1605:— Preceding
1587:65.2.198.190
1562:TheJazzDalek
1528:
1510:70.118.93.33
1461:65.2.198.190
1447:65.2.198.190
1389:98.18.157.36
1383:— Preceding
1366:99.177.66.51
1337:75.119.152.6
1331:— Preceding
1316:TheJazzDalek
1310:
1296:70.118.93.33
1267:70.118.93.33
1261:— Preceding
1243:TheJazzDalek
1220:75.119.152.6
1206:
1194:TheJazzDalek
1185:
1133:65.2.198.190
1068:
1052:65.2.198.190
963:76.109.42.91
939:65.2.198.190
910:65.2.198.190
877:75.119.152.6
871:— Preceding
813:
734:Mushroomhead
596:75.119.152.6
592:32.133.62.18
584:
525:32.133.62.18
425:75.119.152.6
389:
361:
357:
324:
312:
303:sockpuppetry
296:
285:; suspected
280:
266:
254:
250:
244:
236:
230:
185:
173:
167:
159:
152:
146:
140:
134:
124:
45:
43:
31:
28:
3408:Whitehorse1
3378:Whitehorse1
3350:—Preceding
3324:—Preceding
3282:Whitehorse1
3269:Whitehorse1
3244:—Preceding
3215:Whitehorse1
3202:Tony Campos
3194:Autraumaton
3192:(and album
3174:Sean Beavan
3142:Mick Cripps
3082:Autraumaton
2999:Whitehorse1
2984:Yappy2bhere
2968:Whitehorse1
2900:65.3.128.41
2845:—Preceding
2823:—Preceding
2804:Yappy2bhere
2773:65.3.128.41
2747:—Preceding
2726:65.3.128.41
2688:Yappy2bhere
2660:—Preceding
2635:—Preceding
2596:Yappy2bhere
2575:) has made
2517:—Preceding
2416:Yappy2bhere
2385:Yappy2bhere
2335:—Preceding
2312:Yappy2bhere
2287:Yappy2bhere
2282:prima facie
2180:—Preceding
2154:—Preceding
2081:—Preceding
2003:—Preceding
1978:—Preceding
1936:—Preceding
1875:—Preceding
1813:—Preceding
1767:—Preceding
1725:—Preceding
1687:—Preceding
1653:—Preceding
1631:—Preceding
1581:—Preceding
1542:Yappy2bhere
1504:—Preceding
1478:—Preceding
1467:) has made
1441:—Preceding
1410:68.118.8.40
1404:—Preceding
1360:—Preceding
1290:—Preceding
1214:—Preceding
1149:—Preceding
1107:—Preceding
1083:Yappy2bhere
1046:—Preceding
1023:Yappy2bhere
991:—Preceding
957:—Preceding
933:—Preceding
856:Yappy2bhere
786:—Preceding
762:Yappy2bhere
708:—Preceding
646:198.51.16.4
640:—Preceding
623:Yappy2bhere
568:Yappy2bhere
542:—Preceding
519:—Preceding
490:—Preceding
461:—Preceding
419:—Preceding
211:) has made
150:free images
3304:Yilloslime
3166:Nick Beggs
3162:N17 (band)
3146:Mike Riggs
3126:Jim Marcus
3118:Hate Dept.
3110:Die Warzau
2960:Psychotica
2796:Popularity
2592:notability
2310:with HFL.
2277:user:Swarm
2206:65.3.68.21
847:not a vote
779:Management
750:notability
237:discussion
2108:SmokeyJoe
2035:SmokeyJoe
401:• Gene93k
293:canvassed
287:canvassed
246:consensus
3393:GraceEgg
3352:unsigned
3338:contribs
3330:HFLSev3n
3326:unsigned
3300:WP:MUSIC
3246:unsigned
3206:U.S.S.A.
3106:Cyanotic
3030:see here
2928:unsigned
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2847:unsigned
2825:unsigned
2761:contribs
2749:unsigned
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2662:unsigned
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2573:contribs
2565:GraceEgg
2552:GraceEgg
2519:unsigned
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2308:intervew
2264:WP:NBAND
2182:unsigned
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1889:contribs
1881:HFLSev3n
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1155:HFLSev3n
1151:unsigned
1121:contribs
1113:HFLSev3n
1109:unsigned
1098:deleted.
1074:HFLSev3n
1048:unsigned
1019:HFLSev3n
1005:contribs
997:HFLSev3n
993:unsigned
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800:contribs
792:HFLSev3n
788:unsigned
775:country"
722:contribs
714:HFLSev3n
710:unsigned
642:unsigned
606:are all
600:HFLSev3n
544:unsigned
521:unsigned
504:contribs
492:unsigned
475:contribs
467:HFLSev3n
463:unsigned
421:unsigned
325:username
319:{{subst:
313:username
307:{{subst:
297:username
291:{{subst:
281:username
275:{{subst:
209:contribs
111:View log
3278:archive
3188:album,
3114:DreDDup
3102:Chemlab
3069:Fabryka
3017:Fabryka
3011:Comment
2980:WP:BAND
2952:WP:BAND
2753:Elblots
2702:WP:BAND
2304:Reviews
2048:Comment
1311:implied
1211:WP:BAND
1190:WP:BAND
1069:did not
843:notable
699:Elblots
683:records
612:Elblots
604:Elblots
585:Comment
496:Elblots
343:DumbBOT
289:users:
156:WPÂ refs
144:scholar
84:protect
79:history
50:Spartaz
3298:Fails
3296:Delete
3078:16Volt
2721:Delete
2706:Cunard
2684:Delete
2547:Delete
2260:WP:GNG
2258:Fails
2256:Delete
2222:Delete
2027:Delete
1544:, and
1534:Ihcoyc
1432:link).
1239:WP:ATA
1186:Delete
602:, and
358:Delete
339:step 3
128:Google
88:delete
46:delete
3178:Skrew
2451:close
2226:NPSAR
1529:three
267:Note:
171:JSTOR
132:books
105:views
97:watch
93:links
16:<
3397:talk
3360:talk
3334:talk
3254:talk
3067:The
3060:The
2988:talk
2964:orgs
2948:Keep
2936:talk
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2871:talk
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2808:talk
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2730:talk
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2692:talk
2686:per
2670:talk
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2527:talk
2466:warm
2420:talk
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2368:your
2345:talk
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2242:warm
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1224:talk
1207:KEEP
1198:talk
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881:talk
860:talk
814:i.e.
796:talk
766:talk
718:talk
701:and
667:ect.
650:talk
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572:talk
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443:Nick
429:talk
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390:Note
378:talk
362:Note
347:talk
205:talk
192:talk
164:FENS
138:news
101:logs
75:talk
71:edit
3196:),
3062:RAG
3042:MTV
3036:RAG
2783:HB
2633:.
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2455:now
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321:csp
317:or
309:csm
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