433:(or Couzinet) is well known to have made unknown films (!!) and of rather lower quality, a kind of French Ed Wood (but maybe not that bad either). We do not have a page on this movie on the fr.WP yet, but my approach is to cover as many films as possible, and for sure all French productions (around 10,000 talkies). Regarding IMDb, according to my 15 year experience with it, its questionable reliability is not at stake here, and the related entry looks perfectly alright. So up to the en.WP to decide whether to delete this film or not, but I will definitely manage to have it under the fr.WP -- Vincent
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Yes, that is all true. It was careless of me to say "anyone can edit it", which is not really what I meant. However, I still think that the indiscriminate inclusion of almost anything is a more important drawback of IMDb than its questionable reliability. Information in IMDb is probably usually true,
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in French) , it is left to a part of subjective judgement. And the fact that a collection of items is complete and undescriminate does not bar it to appear in WP. Most of the
Bristish PMs are unknown to 95% of fr.WP visitors, i.e. unnotable in my understanding, but I would expect to find them there.
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No evidence anywhere of notability. I can find almost nothing about this play, except that it existed. The article gives no sources, unless we count an external link to IMDb. Apart from the fact that IMDb is not a reliable source, the entry gives nothing more than bare details (such as cast list and
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which indexes all cinema magazines in France, the movie appears in two occasions: one critical review in 1947 upon its release in one of the major magazines of the time (l'Ecran français), and in the complete movie directory covering 1945-1947 releases. So the movie is fairly unknown, and
Cousinet
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To summarize my position, there is no reason to delete this article: it is a "small" and "unnotable" movie indeed, but it is a registered French one (made after 1944, it has to be officially registered with the French Cinema
Authority - CNC); it is accounted for by R. Chirat's directory of French
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I agree: Simply being listed on IMDB imparts no notability. But as I stated above, the information contained therein can often lead to the sources we do accept... which is why while it may be "useful" enough for consideration as an EL to encourage our looking further, it is not as a citation. If
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contribute information to it. The fact that a
Knowledge editor thinks that the "entry looks perfectly alright" does not alter that. However, in my opinion a bigger drawback to using IMDb as evidence of notability is that it is indiscriminate, and includes entries on virtually anything at all
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You say "my approach is to cover as many films as possible, and for sure all French productions (around 10,000 talkies)". However, Knowledge is not an indiscriminate collection of information on just anything, and requires notability for inclusion. Just being a film does not guarantee
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Same for the French movies on a encyclopedia in French! Now when it comes to the en.WP, I do not prejudice the decision, even though, with more than three million pages, you can expect to find a kind of coverage completeness on some popular domains such as movies -- Vincent
495:. Their "unreliability" is seen in their not disclosing just what their vetting processes might be, so that we at Knowledge might for ourselves determine their editorial oversight or fact-checking policy for its efectiveness. So while yes, much of what they offer is
514:). It has generally been accepted that the older the film, the more likely it is that the information concerning cast/crew/title has been so many times repeatedly vetted that it has the greatest chance of being accurate. While we do not give credence to
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Fourvin's mention of French publications mentioning this film would suggest we should keep this article. For something to be notable it does not have to have been mentioned before in
Egnlsih, any language can be used to support
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the article has one good published source. I would suspect there is more on this film available in French. The article is weak now, but it has the potential to grow. No reason to kill this article that has been began
717:. This may appear unsufficient and unnotable enough, but I do not subscribe to throw an actually existing movie in oblivion, as fas as en.WP is concerned. This is not what I expect from an encyclopedia. -- Vincent
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or other organizations where IMDB's information can be verified. Of course, and as JamesBWatson points out, this naturally results in our citing to that attributed source itself, rather than to IMDB.
627:! This is also another reason why I am keen on relying on exhaustive (and reasonable) collections with official recognitions (all French films must be delivered an official certificate known as
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Thanks for these references, I am not familiar with en.WP (yet? :o), and I will review them. But, in my opinion, it seems we are confronting yet another fuzzy concept with
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connected with films or the film industry. That means that the existence of an IMDb entry is no indication at all of notability, even if the entry is totally accurate.
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Yes. The article originally said "drama", but I see it has been changed to "drama film". However, that makes no difference to whether it should be deleted or not.
48:. There's no consensus to delete an article about a film that, if maybe a bit obscure, has apparently been the subject of some coverage in its country of origin.
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Agreed on all points, but on the other hand, since I have never seen a clear-cut definition of what is notable in WP and what is an actual encyclopedic material (
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Hello, I take part to the French WP Cinema project. I am not aware of the notability/acceptance policy on this WP, but the film sure does exist. According to
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I did a bit of cleanup and sectioning in the hope that French-reading
Wikipedians might have access to sources about 1947 French cinema that I do not, else
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488:'s point #4: No... not just "anyone" can edit IMDB. While it is true that anyone might submit information for their consideration, IMDB is edited
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someone says to me "It's on IMDB!", I will reply, "Nice. It screened someplace. Now use that information to find the better sources we require."
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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date of production) which would not establish notability even if it were in a reliable source.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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using google.fr. Also, it's a french translation of the play Женитьба (the wedding) by
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certain portions of their database are genrally accepted as reliable and there have
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is the French spelling. I think it's a motion picture rather than a play. -
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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You say "the movie is fairly unknown", which suggests a lack of notability.
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in which these portions have been discussed (see failed proposal
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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films, which is THE reference index; its two major actors (
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Mamolar, Françoise (june 2008). Éditions Bonne-Anse (ed.).
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has a biographical source about the works of its creator :
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683:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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253:killing the human spirit since 2003!
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597:I'd say that you're looking for
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343:(in French). Vaux-sur-Mer.
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771:Please do not modify it.
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484:To clarify
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409:. Regards,
152:free images
751:notablity.
54:Sandstein
685:T. Canens
430:this site
358:cite book
241:Hymenaeus
674:Relisted
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158:WP refs
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130:Google
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587:alias
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399:Gogol
173:JSTOR
134:books
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105:watch
101:links
16:<
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