Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Johan Wilhelm Klüver - Knowledge (XXG)

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409:. Sadly there is no full list of recipients for these on no.wikipedia as there is for the preceding and overlapping awards, but I find no mention anywhere of there being only 27 recipients of either, and it's also suspicious that the article states he also received the Norwegian War medal, but the articles on the Haakon VII awards say that they are the third grade of the Norwegian War Medal. There may well be sources that show that the original contributor merely misinterpreted details and that this guy does indeed merit an article - albeit I think more logically on the 2 Norwegian wikipedias - but if so I think those sources are either newspapers that aren't indexed by Google, or sources like those given for the 2 Haakon VII awards, of which the first 2 look especially interesting. If someone can get access to such confirmatory material, great, and I tidied up the English in case, but in its absence and given the discrepancies, I can't support keeping the article. 457:
several other articles. Similarly, the fact that someone isn't mentioned anywhere on Knowledge (XXG) shouldn't be taken as evidence (strong or weak) that they are non-notable. In this case, with the circumstances of his merited act being withheld, it would be easy to imagine how he would not be mentioned. __
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Neither is en.wikipedia complete! It would be pretty simple to translate the en. article; it indicates no one over there thinks he's notable enough to justify an article. But actually, I think you mistake my point. He doesn't come up at all, with or without an umlaut. Given the claims in the article
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Going back to the original article - which is basically all we have to go on - we find the statement "In 1943 Mr. Klüver and his crew at the d / S Lysefjord was bombed by japaneese submarines outside the coast of Cuba." I don't think we need to dwell on how remarkably implausible this is... The "H7"
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mate, and he could not have returned to serving on it - it gone. So as I say, assuming good faith, maybe the original editor misinterpreted some stuff, but the contradictions and absence of mentions of any such extraordinary person make me less confident we can find the evidence to show that that's
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Basically, we've taken a terrible article making silly claims and polished it a bit until it looks superficially plausible, but the underlying claims are still completely and comprehensively unsupported - and they don't appear to accord with what we know about Norwegian decorations, which is where
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I maintain the same position. I don't find it particularly telling that he is not mentioned on the Norwegian Knowledge (XXG), and I don't think that is a strong indicator of his non-notability. There are many orphaned pages, so it's not even necessary for someone who has a page to be mentioned in
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Interesting mystery. He has received a medal for heroism which only 27 other people (presumably all Norwegians) have received, and the circumstances of his deed appear to be classified. I dislike seeing the AfD instrument applied to articles basically on the grounds of poor references, of course
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make me less confident of the accuracy of the article. It's also suspicious that he's utterly absent from Norwegian Knowledge (XXG). However, there are 2 medals simultaneously created for WW2 service that the original editor may have meant by "H7 medal": it could be the
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I think, though, we still ought to delete. None of the significant material is actually cited in any way - the award of the medal, etc - and all we can actually confirm is that someone by this name existed and went to sea.
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Sharing the feeling that it would be sad to lose this one in view of its claims, I've just done a big search and found only one mention of him, which I added to the article. That source has him as second mate on the
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I don't have any specific suggestions, but I still think giving the issue time is more appropriate and beneficial than attempting to remove the article. As I wrote, unless it's a hoax, this man is notable.
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recipients alone - and easily as many again listed in other issues of the Gazette. Unless "the highest accomondation a civillian can recieve in Norway" was mostly awarded to foreigners, this again seems
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I would just interject that it is not suspicious that he isn't mentioned on the Norwegian Knowledge (XXG). It is not completed, and lacking an article like this would be not particularly spectacular. __
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vote. I will not however support deletion. This article is somewhat of a conundrum, and I don't really see the big harm in keeping it for further investigations into the issues presented here. __
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submarine, though! I'm a bit torn here - there's just enough connection to reality I can't write it off as a silly hoax, but the rest of it is sufficiently wrong and/or vague that I'd want to.
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A search for sources in several places have not succeeded, so It is not possible to verify the contents of this article. If anyone find sources I am happy to withdraw this nomination.
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I'd expected to find a fleeting mention, maybe with a variant spelling, maybe only on nn.wikipedia, maybe not even by name but somewhere in articles on the medals or on the ships.
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unless a substantial work has been done to dig up references, which I cannot see in this case. I'd say this person is clearly notable unless the article is a hoax. __
282: 256: 129: 97: 92: 101: 392:, not first, and the ship sank and is not mentioned as recovered, so how could he have returned to service on it? I was not able to connect him to the 84: 219:. I picked that up in the Google News link and it gives a interesting information, but it's still leaving the rest of the article uncited. -- 481: 220: 216: 184: 151: 17: 145: 570: 549: 527: 506: 466: 451: 436: 418: 375: 355: 340: 318: 297: 271: 242: 228: 209: 66: 585: 36: 141: 191: 584:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Thanks, but that does not seem to be the same guy. Correct name, but wrong birthyear, country and occupation.
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Well found! But I did find confirmation the ship was sunk by a sub, and he served on it . . . but as
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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medal - it's hard to find any specific evidence of the number of recipients of
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With the present status of findings related to this article I will retract my
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I have searched A-tekst, bokhylla.no, the usuual google-searches, DIS-norges
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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as someone inferred and that is depicted in the article, or the
484:, which is the higher of the two plausible awards, but 114: 110: 106: 176: 190: 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 588:). No further edits should be made to this page. 331:and kongehuset.no. Do you have any other ideas? 8: 561:per lack of convincing arguments otherwise. 283:list of People-related deletion discussions 257:list of Norway-related deletion discussions 277: 251: 281:: This debate has been included in the 255:: This debate has been included in the 396:, and the discrepancies regarding the 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 497:the claim of notability comes from. 482:King Haakon VII's Cross of Liberty 24: 1: 605: 571:11:49, 25 March 2010 (UTC) 550:23:25, 20 March 2010 (UTC) 528:20:27, 20 March 2010 (UTC) 507:11:44, 20 March 2010 (UTC) 467:18:44, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 452:16:06, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 437:14:55, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 419:12:23, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 376:09:45, 21 March 2010 (UTC) 356:11:34, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 341:10:47, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 319:08:23, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 298:01:22, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 272:01:22, 19 March 2010 (UTC) 243:13:30, 18 March 2010 (UTC) 229:13:19, 18 March 2010 (UTC) 210:11:56, 18 March 2010 (UTC) 67:20:31, 26 March 2010 (UTC) 403:Haakon VII Frihetsmedalje 581:Please do not modify it. 32:Please do not modify it. 532:It certainly wasn't a 407:Haakon VII Frihetskors 329:find a grave database 81:Johan Wilhelm Klüver 73:Johan Wilhelm Klüver 44:The result was 394:General Fleischer 300: 286: 274: 260: 596: 583: 287: 261: 215:He's related to 195: 194: 180: 132: 122: 104: 64: 34: 604: 603: 599: 598: 597: 595: 594: 593: 592: 586:deletion review 579: 137: 128: 95: 79: 76: 60: 56: 50: 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 602: 600: 591: 590: 574: 573: 555: 554: 553: 552: 537: 518:what happened. 510: 509: 494: 476: 475: 474: 473: 472: 471: 470: 469: 422: 421: 381: 380: 379: 378: 360: 359: 358: 322: 321: 301: 275: 248: 247: 246: 245: 198: 197: 134: 130:AfD statistics 75: 70: 58: 54: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 601: 589: 587: 582: 576: 575: 572: 568: 564: 560: 557: 556: 551: 547: 543: 538: 535: 531: 530: 529: 525: 521: 516: 512: 511: 508: 504: 500: 495: 491: 487: 483: 478: 477: 468: 464: 460: 455: 454: 453: 449: 445: 440: 439: 438: 434: 430: 426: 425: 424: 423: 420: 416: 412: 408: 404: 399: 395: 391: 386: 383: 382: 377: 373: 369: 365: 361: 357: 353: 349: 344: 343: 342: 338: 334: 330: 326: 325: 324: 323: 320: 316: 312: 307: 306: 302: 299: 295: 291: 284: 280: 276: 273: 269: 265: 258: 254: 250: 249: 244: 240: 236: 232: 231: 230: 226: 222: 221:15.195.201.87 218: 214: 213: 212: 211: 207: 203: 193: 189: 186: 183: 179: 175: 171: 168: 165: 162: 159: 156: 153: 150: 147: 143: 140: 139:Find sources: 135: 131: 126: 120: 116: 112: 108: 103: 99: 94: 90: 86: 82: 78: 77: 74: 71: 69: 68: 65: 63: 62: 61: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 580: 577: 558: 533: 514: 489: 397: 393: 389: 384: 363: 304: 303: 278: 252: 217:Billy Kluver 199: 187: 181: 173: 166: 160: 154: 148: 138: 53: 52: 51: 45: 43: 31: 28: 520:Yngvadottir 444:Yngvadottir 411:Yngvadottir 385:weak delete 164:free images 563:Geschichte 488:we see 23 57:rbitrarily 493:spurious. 398:Lysefjord 390:Lysefjord 333:Rettetast 290:• Gene93k 264:• Gene93k 235:Rettetast 202:Rettetast 542:Shimgray 534:Japanese 499:Shimgray 125:View log 490:British 170:WP refs 158:scholar 98:protect 93:history 559:Delete 515:second 142:Google 102:delete 46:delete 185:JSTOR 146:books 119:views 111:watch 107:links 16:< 567:talk 546:talk 524:talk 503:talk 486:here 463:talk 459:meco 448:talk 433:talk 429:meco 415:talk 372:talk 368:meco 364:keep 352:talk 348:meco 337:talk 315:talk 311:meco 305:Keep 294:talk 279:Note 268:talk 253:Note 239:talk 225:talk 206:talk 178:FENS 152:news 115:logs 89:talk 85:edit 288:-- 262:-- 192:TWL 127:• 123:– ( 569:) 548:| 544:| 526:) 505:| 501:| 465:) 450:) 435:) 417:) 374:) 354:) 346:__ 339:) 317:) 296:) 285:. 270:) 259:. 241:) 227:) 208:) 172:) 117:| 113:| 109:| 105:| 100:| 96:| 91:| 87:| 48:. 565:( 522:( 461:( 446:( 431:( 413:( 370:( 350:( 335:( 313:( 292:( 266:( 237:( 223:( 204:( 196:) 188:· 182:· 174:· 167:· 161:· 155:· 149:· 144:( 136:( 133:) 121:) 83:( 59:0 55:A

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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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20:31, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
Johan Wilhelm Klüver
Johan Wilhelm Klüver
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11:56, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Billy Kluver

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