713:. Having a few references is not enough; if so, then practically every single fictional character is notable. It's only in certain sets of articles that editors put together so much original research and plot summary and then throw in a couple of mentions, arguing notability. (You guessed it, the 20th century novel is not that genre.) I see no reason not to merge this into a main article--seriously trimmed. Marginally notable? Redirect then, and reintroduce it as an article if some real sources become available on Lord Soth, like from real books or journals.
922:- Unusual history, while much is in-universe the appearance in multiple works and campaign settings over decades with a steady stream of different references and improvements suggest that Lord Soth is a notable part of a very large and old gaming community and likely had more coverage including this the rights issue that is briefly touched upon.
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level of a non-entity. Merging all of the primary sourced in universe content to the suggested target article which is already suffering from the same issues of only in universe primary sourcing is like shoveling the shit from one corner of the stall to another. I dont see that we loose anything with a delete.
373:: A character featuring heavily in a large amount of popular books and one of the most well-known characters in his fictional setting. That's normally enough to be considered notable. There are any number of characters with their own article whose only claim to fame is being featured in a series of books. ··
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So far the only third party sources provided even mentioning the subject are from a single appearance in one video game talking about his appearance in that video game. As far as the world, even the gaming world, cares, his contribution and to the D&D franchise (let alone the real world) is the
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about Lord Soth who is mentioned in passing) and.. what else? If this topic was actually notable we would see discussions about Lord Soth not only in a gaming magazine in passing, but outside the world of gaming culture. Has it ever been discussed in academic literature for example? In the NYT or
501:. Currently we have one source, GameSpot, that mentions Lord Soth briefly while reviewing a game; and another listing D&D villains in The Dragon magazine. What seems to be confusing here is that Lord Soth has been featured in many notable works. However the question is if Lord Soth is
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did not give any evidence of the existence of good independent sources on this topic which cover it in depth. The importance of this topic within D&D is irrelevant to notability unless it can be demonstrated that there are independent sources which provide significant coverage.
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also has a point about ref 2--as a retrospective over many games and by multiple authors, this is effectively a review article. The topic looks marginally notable. The article needs editing in an out-of-universe style, but this is a surmountable problem, per
821:". The authors who created this character and use it in their work get onto best-seller lists. Their work is therefore mainstream and substantial. These villains are all melodramatic and low-brow, of course, but this is no bar to inclusion because
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Green by that logic there should be very few articles at all on D&D topics. The notability requirements are not nearly as high as you are making out. They only have to be reliable secondary sources, not academic literature or big-name journalism.
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and to compare status of Lord Soth to the status of Darth Vader is one of the most hilarious thing I have seen in a very long time. Thank you for making me laugh even though it did mean I had to wipe up the coffee that I had spit on the screen!--
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431:- Green Cardamom, why do you need to resort to lying about sources? The gamespy one is unequivocally secondary. I can understand that others may have a different interpretation of the ref #2.
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350:- major villain and plot element over multiple media for 30 years plus. I'll take reference 2 as an review-type reference plus the Gamespy one. There should be more out there.
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we have a whole paragraph about the character in context of the D&D milieu! Merging now with that content will provide a solid basis for third party sourcing for
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670:. The Computer Gaming World article and the Ravenloft FAQ interview seem sufficiently in depth, and the book and GameSpy article add to the material.
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Actually all the sources are incredibly weak and problematic. They do not demonstrate notability. GameSpy is a two paragraph summary about a game (
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I see four independent sources for this character: the
Computer Gaming World article, the GameSpy article, Ravenloft FAQ interview, and this
939:"one of the greatest villains in D&D history" sounds notable to me. Reliable sources talking about the character have been found also.
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to Keep voters: sources are needed. The article's sources are all currently primary. It needs secondary reliable sources to pass
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Except that he appears in multiple adventures and adventure settings and two storylines (Dragonlance and
Ravenloft) in D&D.
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which NO ONE outside of the D&D franchise has found worthy of discussing in any fashion let alone a significant manner. --
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True though the quality of the source matters when considering what counts as "significant coverage" and "multiple sources" of
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Lord Soth. That's more difficult to achieve and these two sources alone are very weak to make that case. --
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Variations on a Non-Player Character in TSR's" Ravenloft" Universe
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confirms the community's view on
Claritas' AfD restriction.
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Knowledge (XXG):Ani#Recent_contributions_by_User:Claritas
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Fictional elements-related deletion discussions
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to some fansite that would love this kind of trivia.
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notable, and for that it needs significant coverage
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43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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862:against participating in AfDs. The discussion
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279:Note: This debate has been included in the
259:Note: This debate has been included in the
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221:Knowledge (XXG):Votes_for_deletion/Lord_Soth
880:No, not a sock, though "it's complicated".
852:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Vecna
696:per Mark viking, Casliber, and gracefool.
281:list of Games-related deletion discussions
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854:page, Simone is a new sock puppet for
846:According to this something posted by
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227:, under very different standards. --
200:. All of the sources in the article
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525:Knowledge (XXG):OUTCOMES#Literature
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206:A cursory search on the internet
823:Knowledge (XXG) is not censored
198:Non-notable fictional character
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523:Also, for past precedent see
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858:. Someone that is in a
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285:• Gene93k
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37:talk page
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120:View log
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302:Delete
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647:. --
597:Merge
507:about
410:. --
306:Merge
182:JSTOR
143:books
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106:watch
102:links
16:<
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