651:- I don't have any connection with the game, Iam just greek and I support greek games. - There was no other way of uploading the game's logo than declaring it's mine. I found it from their Facebook page. I don't think that the developers would disagree by listing their game on Knowledge. - DroidGamers.com was founded 5 years ago and has higher Alexa ranking than Gameworld.gr (Alexa is not 100% reliable but site is ranked at 52.000 position so this means that it has a lot of traffic). So how did you wrote an outcome that it's a "hobbist site"? - CyprusGamer is the only gaming site in Cyprus.And that's the only review that I found. - I've even forgot HDBlog.it , the biggest blog in Italy. Even if we exclude the last one, we have 5 reliable references from gaming/tech websites. In which Knowledge policy does it say that the multiple references have to be "that number" and that "only websites and not blogs are allowed?" Ex. HDBlog.it is one of the biggest Gaming/Tech sites in the world. Finally, Iam not threatening anyone. Iam just telling you that I will escalate the issue to all major gaming websites, forums, youtubers and Reddit channels that I know. You are clearly killing indie game development here with the benefit goign to the big developers and publishers. Iam the one who must say that you are acting on behalf of them. Finally, this link doesn't mention anywhere that "5 or more references are required" or what is the "measure of counting a website's reputation.
555:
provide the EXACT paragraph of
Knowledge rules which define specific rules about the "reputation" of websites you mentioned (not blogs, because you can't define the difference between a blog and a website) this conversation will be forwarded to all gaming websites and developer forums via mass email, as well as Reddit and various YouTubers. It's already been saved. You are not behaving towards a "đź’•" rule, but towards a "Strictly controlled Encyclopedia" where each moderator behaves with the way that he wants. So now that you've learned that those 4 are websites and not blogs, and that they've written articles/reviews and not redirection of press releases, go ahead and prove yourself. (
417:" Works produced by the subject, or those with a strong connection to them, are unlikely to be strong evidence of notability." The notability rules clearly say about "press releases". They don't say anything about "Sites posting news items by just copy-pasting a press release. Whether you want it or not, Gamasutra and MCVUK actually did post a news article! But the editors of those sites copy-pasted a press release that was sent to them. It's a news article either way, with no personal editor comment. (
348:. Another fact of notability and significance. 4)Sites MCVUK and Gamasutra, one of the most well-known in the world, did a re-post of a press releases. Knowledge doesn't have any rule telling that "A press release re-posting is not considered as a reference" User 331dot doesn't reply in numbers to the conversation that has already started. He has refused twice to reply to points 1, 2 and 3, while insisting that a press release re-publishing is not an importance fact. .(
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reputation. This site has a good number of users, forum posts and Alexa ranking. As far as I checked, it's dedicated to
Android/Tablet gaming so compared to other ANdroid/iOS/Windows Phone sites it's way above average. "There's plainly not enough content to write a full article on this subject." - Ok, let's see some other mobile games. This is a full list:
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mentioned above don't make Bears vs Art notable. D is something between a press release and posting a video. As I see, you or someone else has Edited that game's profile and kept only GamesIndustry and
Eurogamer links. So basically since the above game stays in Knowledge with only 2 references, as I see LandFort has more than 2: 1)GameWorld :
590:. I could potentially see a case for Gameworld and Techgear, but Droid Gamers and Cyprus Gamers are very clearly hobbyist sites run by hobbyists. As for the rest, I don't see what you intend to accomplish by making threats. I actually took the time to link out my entire rationale if one takes the time to read it. Speaking of policy, our
764:"It would follow that you have some connection with the subject". Since you first said that Iam connected with the game Iam also implying the same for you. Fair and simple. If you "retract your statement" -as you said it first- I will rectract it too. Crystal clean. You are not talking to a 10 year old kid so don't threaten me.(
814:. Each article is discussed on its own merits one at a time. There is also a difference between sources used to determine whether a topic should be covered in its own article (notability) and what sources can be used as statements of fact in an article (e.g., the dev's own site, a press release). This is all explained in the
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General notability guideline: "Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by the article's subject or someone affiliated with it. For example, advertising, press releases, autobiographies, and the subject's website are not considered independent. This means that all A, B and C points that I
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I have read all the guides. Both you and the user that wrote before can't prove in any way, that those 4 sources are not valid. Actually all 4 of them are valid, and 4 sources are enough for a video game to be listed. There are no rules and limits about a "specific number of references". So I expect
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Four are fairly enough. And again, there are no notability guides about the EXACT number of postings that should count as a notability, so don't waste your time on trying to prove me the notability rating of the product. Because I can post you hundreads of
Android or iOS games that should be deleted
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has no editorial policy, no experience in journalism, and no external reputation for reliability—clear as day. No one said anything about a minimum number of refs. You could argue for two, but there's no way Droid Gamers and Cyprus Gamers are reliable. There's plainly not enough content to write a
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which had only 2 reference links and you deleted the profile, without warning the author. I can post you hundreads of games that have 2 or 3 reference links. Are you going to delete them as well? Instead of posting links which I already read, either find one
Knowledge rule which says "More than 4
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How can you say that this site has no experience in
Journalism? Do you personally know all these editors? Do you know where did they work before DroidGamers? How can you say that they don't have reputation when they have 6.000 users. In lots of other gaming profiles I've been blogs with way less
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This combative attitude you have isn't helping your case. It was reasonable to think that since you uploaded the game's image and said it was yours, that you were associated with the game. You say you are not, so there isn't an issue. On what do you base the claim that we are working for big
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Where exactly did you see "blogs"? I see only websites. Where exactly does
Knowledge define which sites are reliable and which are not? Is there a meter based in Google Analytics, active website years or anything similar? I demand a clear reply. I contribute to Knowledge for years. If you don't
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indie gaming or any other cause or subject. We deal in what is notable. If the image is not yours, you will need to either obtain permission for it to be used or it will need to be deleted.(I see it is already tagged for deletion on
Commons) Stating that others are 'acting on behalf' of 'big
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These are the refence links for that article: 1)GameWorld.gr wrote a news item for the game. This is a fact of notability and significance. 2)The game's profile in SlideDB.com . The game has one of the highest ranks in the world (yesterday it was 2nd in ranks) -
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If you have understood what is a reliable source then why don't you recognize 4 reliable sources already mentioned? And why don't you send me the exact paragraph where wikipedia mentions that forum topic discussion is not a reliable source?
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would normally be the strongest, but in this case they simply reprinted press releases, which by definition are not independent of the company and product. Searches of the usual types turned up nothing better, so it does not meet
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policy asks that contributors declare any affiliation with the subject on the article's talk page. Since you listed yourself as the author of the game's logo, it would follow that you have some connection with the subject.
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developers' requires evidence; if you have none, please retract your statement. As I indicated, canvassing for support for your position is generally frowned upon and is usually discounted in discussions like this.
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The article for LandFort is about a new
Android game which has been covered by multiple sources. The "Notability" rule is this: No inherent notability "Notability" is not synonymous with "fame" or "importance,"
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So, both MCVUK and
Gamasutra that redirected Landfort's press releases are valid references as well. Even SlideDB. This makes a total of more than 5-6 references, which makes this game profile notable.
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806:, but I think it'll be a waste of time. Alexa rating and user count doesn't make an outlet more or less reliable (Reddit rates high too and it doesn't mean it has journalistic integrity). As for
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about everything. Consensus is currently that such content is not a reliable source; you can certainly attempt to persuade the Knowledge community that it is, but that seems unlikely to change.
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the Reliable Sources page where its states that user generated content is generally not considered a reliable source. Even if that does not satisfy you, you should understand that Knowledge
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1)It's a news item which tells about the game and also 2 updates within the article with 2 videos. Who told you that games that are about to be released don't deserve a place in Knowledge?
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And finally, I was never pinged about the Wikimedia image that I uploaded! So here is the developer's .pdf for allowing me to publish it : 4shared.com/office/hjFeX2xuce/uthorization.html
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Logo is re-uploaded as I have official license to use it from developer George Mataragas - info@matasoftstudios.com ! Licence link - 4shared.com/office/hjFeX2xuce/uthorization.html (
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Oh and about the logo, I have already asked for a .pdf usage of the game's logo from the developer. If they agree I just don't know where to put that .pdf in Knowledge images.
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http://www.droidgamers.com/index.php/game-news/android-game-news/10092-reclaim-the-kingdom-by-defeating-demonic-hordes-in-landfort-now-available-from-google-play
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4)Notability rules: "For example, advertising, press releases, autobiographies, and the subject's website are not considered independent." The reference 4 says
678:—I have written dozens of articles on indie games so spare me the personal attacks. In fact, I have nothing else to add here unless there are other sources.
320:. The only sources offered are republished press releases and promotional listings of the app, none of which indicate its notability or significance.
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I cannot read Greek but from the few snippets of English that I can see, the GameWorld 'story' seems to just be an announcement of the game's release.
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2)In which Knowledge rule does it mention that game profiles in sites like Metacritic, IndieDB, GameRankings etc. "don't indicate something notable"?
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If it says something like this, then copy-paste the rule to me. There is no such rule. We have 4 strong references and that's fairly enough. (
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3)This is an article (not press release) by the biggest greek Technology website, Techgear. It has been placed in 35.000th position in Alexa :
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explains how sources become reliable, and the video game WP project has vetted sources with a reputation for fact checking and reliability at
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are straight-up press releases. There are no worthwhile redirect targets. If someone finds more (non-English and offline) sources, please
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http://www.gameworld.gr/component/content/article/179-%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%AE%CF%83%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%82/2014-05-19-05-44-56/22772-landfort
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http://www.gameworld.gr/component/content/article/179-%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%AE%CF%83%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%82/2014-05-19-05-44-56/22772-landfort
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3)It's a news item for the game. What else do you expect? A review or something? There are no notability rules for posting only reviews
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that admins will remove the Deletion tag. We' lost enough hours talking while we should all be working. I gave you an example of
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Where did you see the "unreliable blogs"? 1)There is a review by CyprusGamer.com. This is a gaming website, not a blog :
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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mentions that press releases are not independent sources of information. They don't establish notability.
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A discussion forum is not a reliable source; and frankly you don't seem to be understanding what one is.
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http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-03-11-halfbricks-upcoming-game-is-a-puzzler-called-bears-vs-art
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Freedom without license. The 💕, in this case, doesn't mean "do as you please"—there are many things
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I'm not going to repeat what the other user has said about the sources already provided. Please see
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LandFort forum discussion added. A 5th reliable source of independent discussion between users. (
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There are no firm rules here but there are guidelines about what reliable sources are, and the
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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4)An article (not press release) by Gameworld.gr one of the biggest greek gaming websites:
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2)This is an article (not press release) by DroidGamers which is a respected website :
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735:. Here in the references section, I see those sites listed. A) A redirect site :
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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Ok now you have been clear. This is why the article should remain as it is.
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Game profiles don't indicate something notable, they just describe the game.
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Again, from what I can gather it just seems to describe the game itself.
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http://halfbrick.com/bears-vs-art/bears-vs-art-now-available-worldwide/
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1054:. Knowledge is not for advertising, marketing, or public relations.
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I have refused nothing; but I obviously have not been clear enough.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Category:Android_(operating_system)_games
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https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games/Sources
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developers, other than you disagreeing with what we are saying?
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You can find dozens of games there that shouldn't be listed. Ex.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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http://android.hdblog.it/2015/10/27/landfort-strategico-android/
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First review has been added, a 8.1/10. Plus 3 more news links. (
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Current article sources are unreliable blogs. Only hits in a
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
625:. Making threats will not build support for your position.
105:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
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http://playboard.me/android/apps/com.halfbrick.bearsvsart
582:. The answers to your questions are in my original post:
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If you want to run Droid Gamers past other editors, try
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D) As you see, even press releases being copy-pasted! :
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http://www.android-zone.fr/test-jeu-landfort-android/
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C) A redirect page so that users can play the game :
443:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1106:). No further edits should be made to this page.
459:list of Video games-related deletion discussions
859:because they had only 1-2 notable references. (
850:http://www.techgear.gr/landfort-android-102431/
546:http://www.techgear.gr/landfort-android-102431/
676:You are clearly killing indie game development
538:http://cyprusgamer.com/landfort-review-android
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125:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
95:among Knowledge contributors. Knowledge has
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739:B) Developer's official website (really?)Â :
659:) 20:45, 1 November 2015 (GMT+2) (GMT+2)).
457:Note: This debate has been included in the
316:Unremarkable app that does not seem to meet
346:http://www.dwrean.net/2015/10/landfort.html
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99:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
956:references" or Remove the "Delete" tag.
584:Knowledge:Verifiability#Reliable sources
119:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
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733:https://en.wikipedia.org/Bears_vs._Art
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342:http://www.slidedb.com/games/landfort
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900:) 02:35, 2 November 2015 (GMT+2)).
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768:) 22:25, 1 November 2015 (GMT+2)).
737:http://bears-vs-art.en.softonic.com/
559:) 18:23, 1 November 2015 (GMT+2)).
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617:Note that
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1100:talk page
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149:canvassed
143:canvassed
102:consensus
37:talk page
1102:or in a
1052:WP:NSOFT
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965:Kotsolis
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800:WT:VG/RS
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484:reliable
435:Relisted
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239:View log
195:LandFort
181:username
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