400:Ω ID is Ω Universitas in ID Mode. When in ID Mode the craft changes color from blue to red and projects out bright teal wings of energy similar to KOS-MOS' Third Armament. Ω ID is remarkably similar in appearance and purpose to Xenogears' Weltall -ID-, the powerful and destructive "alter-ego" of the game's central Gear, Weltall. It is accessible only near the end of the game after Citrine is defeated aboard the Durandal. She drops a key to the Weapons Development Area of the CAT Facility on Fifth Jerusalem, where the fight between KOS-MOS and Ω Res Novae was held. Revisiting the facility through the EVS, a player can enter the sealed-off section and fight both Ω Universitas and Ω ID.
805:
Number Domain is the plane of existence consisting of physical being and flesh (Material realm - All that we hear, see, smell, touch and taste) while the
Imaginary Number Domain consists of consciousness, (Spiritual realm - emotions and heart etc). As the Ark is from the Imaginary Domain, it does not exist physically. Abel's Ark is the form of Abel's consciousness while Abel is the form of U-Do's physical being. They are referred to as "U-Do's eyes" because U-Do exists outside of the universe (in what's referred to as the "Higher Domain"). Abel's Ark and Abel are the way those within our universe (The "Lower Domain") perceive U-DO's observation.
620:
clause in WP:NOT. Sourcing is not an issue, because the game provides both plot databases and even real-life influences! The article can easily be sourced with cites from the database (the game database is actually out of universe for the most part, making it reliable), and so on....IF the article were to stay in list form, which is pathetic because we don't need an inch by inch summary of every little element of
Xenosaga. So, while the article has potential to remain in its current state with some cites and rewriting, that is not the idea.
565:
rush to AfD articles if someone is planning on revamping the article(s) in question (as I stated on the CVG talkpage a day before the AfD was started). I'm not going to pull an all-nighter to work on these articles just because one is on AfD, either; I'll work on them, all right, but it'll have to be when I have the time to do it. If, two months from now, the articles are in the same state, I probably can't find the time to do it and therefore a deletion may be best. But let's be patient here. —
606:
turnaround (like the Final
Fantasy pages). Unfortunately, I have been unable to realize my full plans for the Xenosaga pages because of other pressing matters (finsihing what I began at the Final Fantasy wikiproject, copyediting, reviving the star wars project and continuing star wars cleanup, working on an FA, and so on). Either way, the AfD has been launched, and all that is moot because editors are now going to be forced.
634:
more than 30 hours of cutscenes on the whole - that's more than 12 movies right there), such a heaping amount of information requires time to sort through what is important, what's not important, influences, and what is significant enough to note; not to mention finding the correct cites to avoid original interpretation, and keeping everything contained and succinct. This takes time, which a 5-day AfD doesn't provide.
235:
No, because if that information were included in the article it would be removed as "tangential" or "irrelevant" information. Notability of list information is established by its notability if it were included in the main article, irrespective of the effect it would have on article flow/size/etc. in
134:
Lengthy and unsourced glossary type article on a fictional topic, but the vast amount of detail which constitutes most of this article looks like fanfic, and I cannot find any reliable sources. If verifiable, reliable sources cannot be supplied for this, it should be deleted as per WP:V. In addition,
816:
How would it help me beat the game? It's not a game guide, it would never appear in a manual or FAQ because it has nothing to do with gameplay at all. The reason it exists is because the
Xenosaga universe needs explained if you're going to be able to understand any of the other information about the
505:
that minor characters should be merged into one list should not be used as a loophole excuse to allow large unwieldy articles which are amassed collections of rambling no-context plot points. If the article was completely revamped according to the guidelines and standards, it would look nothing like
633:
The idea is to take all these organizations, terms, and locations, and merge it into one article describing the plot, another describing the technological aspects and their influences (japanese mecha, names deriving from myth, etc), and maybe a character list. However, with
Xenosaga (which features
56:, at least for now. Those in favor of deletion are correct that this is in need of major cleanup, at a minimum. However, a significant number of people want to give interested editors some time to work on it, especially since at least one has articulated a tentative plan. So let's try that first. —
1060:
per
Deckiller's offer - if the article is still in its current state in a few months then feed it to the hobbitses, precious. There's a lot of material here, perhaps some could be transwikied, some deleted, some cleaned and merged etc. etc. Chucking the lot into the abyss when an offer of clean-up
225:
I accept some of your points but if we followed what you said to your logical conclusion "list of colour of booties that Link wore" would be fine because notability would be expressed by the parent article of "the legend of Zelda" would be there and we'd have the primary source of the game to draw
564:
per my plans to rework the
Xenosaga articles in the future to decrease the amount of fan masturbation (of which I was guilty of when I first came here nearly two years ago). Let it stay until the plans are set in motion, so that we don't lose the edit history. As I point out on my userpage, don't
804:
It is the form of Abel's consciousness in the "Imaginary Number Domain" while manifested into the "Real Number Domain" (similar to the
Testaments). The Real Number Domain and the Imaginary Number Domain are the two planes of existence interwoven with each other in the Xenosaga Universe. The Real
619:
Another issue I've had for a while is the use of the term "gameguide". A gameguide is a walkthrough, describing how to do things in a game. This article describes plot elements from the series' storyline, for the most part. Therefore, it's not a gameguide, it's a violation of the "plot summary"
605:
That's the problem; AfD is being done more and more incorrectly as of late. AfD should always be a last resort, not a wakeup call; I find it best to let users know that these kinds of articles are unacceptable on an encyclopedia, and then give them ample time to consider a plan and make a major
647:
However, just deleting this article is not a wise move, because some of this information may be kept (or at least the ideas), and edit histories are very important to me. Which is why I suggested keep and add numerous cleanup tags to designate that this article needs significant overhaul,
523:
The article is properly referenced, or rather has a very minimal threshold for referencing with regards to verifiability, as most (if not all) of the information is implicitly (or in some cases explicity) sourced to the primary source, i.e. the game(s) each section subject appears in. --
887:. How is this 'list of video game terms' not a video game guide? It is completely in-(Xenosaga)universe POV (Knowledge (XXG) is supposed to have a reality POV). Willing to reconsider if a secondary source establishing notability of terms with out-of-universe writing can be presented. --
775:
On the contrary, it's an explanation of the game's concepts for the non-player. Anyone who was actually in the process of playing the game would find the list of minimal benefit because they would already understand them. (Unless you have a shoddy memory or whatever, of course.)
408:
Knowledge (XXG) is not a game guide site/fan site. There are plenty of other sites for that kind of thing. I'm very skeptical about the Zelda/Link items list too, though at least that has the decency not to stay in-universe and also not to allow excessive detail on each item
743:
This definitely should stay as many times throughout this series you will be confused in terms of the story, Knowledge (XXG) may not be a game guide but does talk about the story primarily, this is very helpful in trying to understand what is going on in the
763:
A general rule of thumb to follow if unsure: if the content only has value to people actually playing the game, it's unsuitable. Keep in mind that video game articles should be readable and interesting to non-gamers; remember the bigger
135:
This article suffers under notability, it is written from an entirely in-universe perspective, with nothing at all in the world of out-of-universe, real-world citation. Where's the cultural relevance for a general readers encylopedia?
648:
compression, and merge into a more complete out of universe page - not simply delete and scare people off. Let editors realize what they're doing is wrong, and let them help fix it so that I'm not tackling yet another project alone. —
28:
1021:. The information is mostly fine, but the article title is annoying/misleading and smacks of WP:NOT (a dictionary). This would be much better suited for a gaming-specific wiki, or at least a sub-page of the main
719:
it isn't a game guide and it can be verified. Since the list is a solution to the fancruft it is being AfDed for, give the editors time to revamp it, and if it doesn't happen, then AfD the article again.
183:
Minor characters (and places, concepts, etc.) in a work of fiction should be merged with short descriptions into a "List of characters." This list should reside in the article relating to the work itself,
436:
Basically, these are fixable problems. None of the issues you have raised are concerning the article's subject as a whole. (Except for "cruft", which isn't an argument so much as a way of saying "
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896:
On the plus side, there are no verifiability or sourcing problems, and if the text is accurate to the game it's automatically neutral because fictional universes are generally objective. --
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game. Remember, comprehensiveness requires enough plot summary for the storyline to make sense to the reader. Complicated plots need a lot of plot summary to be comprehensible. --
588:
This is not a dig at you - but I've lost count of the amount of times that people have said "honest guv", I'll clean it up in the future. Once the AFD is over, nothing happens. --
954:
1037:
It IS a subpage of the main
Xenosaga article. Mediawiki no longer supports the subpage format in namespace, and hasn't for years. So it may not be at the title
97:
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394:. Gameguide/cruft. Everything is written from an in-universe perspective with no attempt at real world context or relevance (I mean the article has stuff like
101:
843:
Where did I mention anything connected to "help me beat the game"? in my comment? Besiding being rude, it's dishonest to answer comments with strawmen. --
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that hypothetical. Each of the elements (as far as I can tell) in this list is about a specific plot point, character, or otherwise significant
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Game guide == guide to playing the game. This doesn't tell me how to play the game. There's no strawman there. Take a look at
700:
This isn't a game guide. The information in it would be useless to beating the game, it doesn't tell me HOW to do anything. --
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how it does now. If you want to go ahead and totally stubify/rework the article, I'd be happy to reconsider my position.
173:. Instead, notability is in this case asserted by the "parent" article which the list was (presumably) split off from:
1096:
44:
860:, which gives a list of commonly occurring contents of game guides. None of them match with this article at all. --
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Oh my lord! :-) (is this going to be the first afd that gets increasingly good-humoured and warm as it goes on?) --
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article. I might be more willing to keep if some broader notability were established (like cultural impact). --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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In case anyone was wondering, they all happen to be brown. Except the flippers, which aren't really boots. --
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190:(emphasis mine) The rest of the nominator's objections warrant a cleanup, not a deletion. --
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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unless it becomes long, in which case a separate article for the list is good practice
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/List of terms in
Xenosaga (2nd nomination)
688:. Knowledge (XXG) isn't a game guide. Put this on a video game wiki, not here.
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485:. Even leaving that issue aside, the entire article needs massive cleanup and
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I can tell that the above section is a game guide hint, and that's about it.
988:: once again, AfD is not frelling cleanup! If I want to state the fact that
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objections concerning writing style (such as in-universe perspective) or
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148:- Let me just run down a few things. First off, the reliable sources:
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is a prince I don't need a third party to say so, I can just cite
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
305:- Sonofa... well I guess it's not too tangential then. :P --
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has been given would hardly be for the common good.
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47:). No further edits should be made to this page.
27:NOTE: A newer version of this debate is present at
1099:). No further edits should be made to this page.
477:The fancruft argument is not an extension of
424:- I've said it before and I'll say it again:
8:
996:. As for the in universe stuff, tag it as
971:Note: This debate has been added to the
953:: This debate has been included in the
932:: This debate has been included in the
802:And a non-player would be interested in
1073:per Deckiller's offer, at a minimum. -
934:list of Game-related-related deletions
766:Isn't what you described just that? --
430:of the article warrant a cleanup tag,
282:List of coloured boots that Link wore
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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757:This is what the guidelines at the
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240:within the Xenosaga fiction. --
955:list of Lists-related deletions
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374:I can't say it any better than
150:the game is a reliable source.
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152:More specifically, it's the
140:10:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
67:17:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
1116:
1041:, but it is a subpage. --
676:per others' arguments. --
81:List of terms in Xenosaga
73:List of terms in Xenosaga
1092:Please do not modify it.
40:Please do not modify it.
1039:Xenosaga/List of terms
481:, its an extension of
1008:Dread Lord CyberSkull
973:list of CVG deletions
856:. It's a redirect to
380:♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫
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807:I see.... --
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941:SkierRMH
919:ZakuSage
764:picture.
746:Jack Cox
744:story.--
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428:portions
226:upon. --
177:. From
175:Xenosaga
125:View log
1035:Comment
1027:Alan Au
889:maclean
761:says :
698:Comment
651:Deckill
568:Deckill
503:WP:FICT
495:WP:FICT
440:.") --
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98:protect
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990:Hamlet
898:tjstrf
881:Delete
862:tjstrf
819:tjstrf
778:tjstrf
702:tjstrf
686:Delete
541:ramble
508:Bwithh
499:WP:WAF
491:WP:NOR
483:WP:NOT
457:ramble
411:Bwithh
392:WP:NOT
388:Delete
342:tjstrf
322:ramble
286:tjstrf
257:ramble
207:ramble
166:, but
132:Delete
102:delete
977:PresN
725:Darth
546:argue
462:argue
378:did.
327:argue
262:argue
238:thing
212:argue
160:WP:RS
119:views
111:watch
107:links
16:<
1071:Keep
1058:Keep
1047:talk
986:Keep
951:Note
930:Note
902:talk
883:per
866:talk
823:talk
782:talk
730:griz
706:talk
674:Keep
562:Keep
497:and
402:".
372:Keep
346:talk
290:talk
284:. --
280:per
278:Keep
171:WP:N
164:WP:V
162:and
146:Keep
115:logs
89:talk
85:edit
63:Talk
54:keep
960:--
957:.
939:--
936:.
432:not
181:: "
168:not
123:- (
58:TKD
1077:|
1011:✎☠
1006:.
1004:}}
998:{{
975:.
776:--
549:)
493:,
465:)
330:)
265:)
215:)
117:|
113:|
109:|
105:|
100:|
96:|
91:|
87:|
60:::
659:r
655:e
576:r
572:e
538:(
531:|
526:Y
454:(
447:|
442:Y
398:"
319:(
312:|
307:Y
254:(
247:|
242:Y
204:(
197:|
192:Y
188:.
127:)
121:)
83:(
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