190:. Personally, I feel the lists are helpful especially to those editors involved in organized crime related articles. There are both pros and cons to lists vs. categories and I believe a reader or editor should be allowed the right to an alternative. However, among the various organized crime related lists (
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The problem is, who gets defined as a mobster? More importantly, why does being Irish matter? Though probably not the author's intention, associating the two smacks of an ethnic attack. And there's no mention of Irish heritage in some of the articles listed, so why are they included? --
358:- Unreferenced, indiscriminate list biased with regard to ethnicity. What's the point to this list? With no references, who decides what names get added here? Further, it shouldn't be in article space at all. At best, this would be a WikiProject. --
479:, clearly descibe all of these individuals involved in Irish-American organized crime. I can provide individual citations on each individual mobster if nessessary, although in my opinion I believe it is exessive and unessessary.
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Nomination reason is rather poor, list of mobsters is useful because you can't go dirrectly to any if you don't know there names. There are many articles like this, don't think nominator even knows this:
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As the nominator, I'm completely open to nominating all these pages. I singled out an example, knowing there was a larger problem here. All these lists are indiscriminate, unsourced and partial : -->
330:; there are good reasons to have lists in Knowledge, and this list either fulfills these reasons, or has strong potential to, after some cleanup and better annotation/different sorting, fulfill them.
390:, etc. are clearly organized crime figures. Granted the article may need additional references although it dosen't seem that should be such a serious issue that it should be considered for deletion.
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which did include some Polish and German-Americans within its ranks, these mobsters headed or were members of criminal organizations which were predominanly made up of Irish-Americans such as the
286:, list with a good scope, offers additional information beyond a mere list. I reject the arguments of the nomination. Unreferenced is not a reason for deletion, it is a reason for tagging. --
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no different then any of the other lists. Also all of the entries are categorized under Irish-American mobsters, regardless if their ethicity is mentioned in the article.
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I agree that to single out the Irish for deletion is prejudicial. There should be an overall soultution, but there should be referencing at all of the mobster pages. --
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on the subject. So, I don't see that as an especially large problem. Get back to me if you can articulate a better objection. Cruft is not one o them.
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and kept. If you feel the main issue is a lack of references, then a reference tag should be placed rather then then nominating it for deletion.
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a list. Also, who decides how to use the pejorative term "mobster"? How could this article ever be anything more than
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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that makes me vote to delete. There's nothing showing that the list is accurate, much less encyclopedic. --
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If their ethnicity is not described in the article, how do we know they're Irish? It's this level of
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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and others. Organized crime is generally grouped by ethicity no different from
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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If you'll notice the examples I provided, with exception to the
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Paddy
Whacked: The Untold Story of the Irish American Gangster
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Blood and Power: Organized Crime in
Twentieth-Century America
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The references I have provided, specifically T.J. English's
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references could easily be provided, there are books
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So you have a general objection to all lists, ever? -
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140:List of Italian-American mobsters
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