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It's just the general trend and purpose of the self-reference guidelines that I am trying to talk about here. It doesn't have much to do with a list like this, of which there are of course very many in the
Knowledge (XXG). ...And if there could be produced and copied a relevant guideline for the purposes of this discussion, it would be appreciated. --
388:, first paragraph: Stand-alone lists are Knowledge (XXG) articles; thus, they are equally subject to Knowledge (XXG)'s content policies, such as verifiability, no original research and neutral point of view." Stop trying to pass off lists as something that doesn't have to pass guidelines and can still be included.
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The pertinent self-reference guidelines seem to guide editors to avoid being too philosophical and self-limited, or cutesy and inner-directed, when editing the
Knowledge (XXG). The Knowledge (XXG) is not intellectually dorky, in other words; nor is it an area for intellectual cliques and in-jokes.
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I think your confused. Think of it this way: This list exists solely because there are other
Knowledge (XXG) lists that are about the United States congress. It doesn't discuss/list anything else expect those Knowledge (XXG) links. That is a self-reference. You can also maybe think about it as
171:
I made this list and it's been rarely improved. Yes, it's self-referential in violation of WP policy and that's why I agree to delete it. However, it does fill a need and I wish there was a better way to implement it. If it's deleted, can someone suggest a better
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Fills an apparent need, and the claim of "self-referencing" des not appear to be key to me. Many articles primarily refer to material on WP, what would be improper is using the list as a RS for some sort of claim, but no such claims appear to be made.
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original research because the only research available/possible for this list is the fact that there are other lists on
Knowledge (XXG). If it wasn't for those lists, the list in question would have no content, and therefore wouldn't exist.
519:) 15:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC) P.S. I see how, arguably, since this list has no references, it thus violates the Manual of Style guidelines. I do not see that as a big problem, but I tagged it for rescue anyway.
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Since the entire article is a self-reference to
Knowledge (XXG), if we remove the self-reference, we will have nothing left (besides maybe a template). So deleting the article seems to be the only other option.
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511:, unless they have controversial content. A category would be worse than useless here. I'm not sure what the nominator means. Can you please explain more clearly? The burden is on you.
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What does being a self-reference have anything do with
Knowledge (XXG) "being too philosophical"? This is getting too off topic from the issue at hand. 23:09, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
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The tone of the WP guidelines in regard to lists and categories is overwhelmingly positive in regard to both. Why should one be thinking to choose between the two? --
408:. Information such as date of founding, number of listed companies, city of location, and an external link are included in this table, which originated as a list.
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232:
First of all, I would like to advise you to assume good faith. Just because you couldn't find the MOS violation, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Secondly, read
210:. List does not reference Knowledge (XXG), it references the US Government. I assume the WP:MOS guideline has been invented by the nominator. Please cite
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will be another example, including the government link, date of founding, the Senior
Minister, important agencies devolved from the Ministry, etc. --
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reference it is
Knowledge (XXG) articles, which is evident from the list. If you want to get really complex, it also cannot be verified by reliable
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591:, but suggest that people who would work on this try to bring similar lists relating to other countries to the same standard, per
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472:"Redundancy between lists and categories is beneficial because they are synergistic, and is covered in the guideline
629:. A "list of lists" such as this one is a "neutral self-reference" which is specifically allowed by guidelines, see
612:- perfectly useful list. It does a job not dome by a category of flagging up those lists that need to be created.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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449:- This ought to be converted into a category so it will update itself and be more easily findable.
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of listing other
Knowledge (XXG) articles. This is a self-reference because the only thing that
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Ok. One thing about categories is that they cannot be presented in tabular format; see
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violation as
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sources, as the only thing it lists are other Knowledge (XXG) articles.
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This list should definitely not be converted to a category. From
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No, it's not there. Perhaps this would be a good place to start:
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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unencyclopedic and self-referencing article. This list is a
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Knowledge (XXG):Categories, lists, and navigation templates
499:, this is obviously, clearly, plainly, a useful list per
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Knowledge (XXG):Lists (stand-alone lists)#Lists of lists
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It certainly is. Nomination has no rationale as per
185:This is one of the reasons why categories exist.
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
684:). No further edits should be made to this page.
570:usefull list, purely organizational and helpful
299:Then why should it be discussed for deletion? --
635:WP:SELF#Neutral self-references are acceptable
8:
258:. Here's a quote from the top of the page:
410:List of government ministries of Cambodia
71:List of United States congressional lists
63:List of United States congressional lists
206:I couldn't find anything about lists on
368:, there isn't much to discuss here. --
260:"Lists and categories are synergistic."
234:Knowledge (XXG):Avoid self-references
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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364:, list isn't really deletable per
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406:List of African stock exchanges
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236:. You should find it there.
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677:Please do not modify it.
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655:Excellent citation. --
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188:Tavix
172:use?—
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119:) – (
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