843:), notable Windows games are not much more numerous than games on any other platform. It is only the decades-long backlog (thanks to almost complete backwards compatibility) which makes it so. That's why I proposed subdividing the lists into years. Some consoles also subdivide their game lists: the PS2 has almost complete backcompat with the PS1, but the game lists are separated (rightfully so). Windows can be split up by iteration too (95, 98, XP, etc.) which will limit each list to about the same size as a console list, if that is preferable. By assuming that there is only way to list these games (lumping them all into one list), based on the faulty idea that Windows is a singular ageless platform, we will come to a situation where we have a list of Linux games, or OS/2 games, but not Windows, the most significant PC game platform. Not seeing the value in a list for this, and
839:
came up with a suggestion for) to make them more maintainable. "Unmaintainable" lists are those that have no well-defined boundary or scope, and no means by which to subdivide the list into narrower segments that do. A Windows game list has a very well-defined boundary and scope, which merely happens to include a lot of items -- "big" is not the same as "unmaintainable". It can also be subdivided with an additional criteria, and by reapportioning the list content appropriately, you can get each list to a size and state where there should be few or no changes. On an annual basis (
798:
different than the ones for the consoles, which also duplicate their respective categories. Is there a better way to approach the construction and maintenance of these lists? For example, would it be more useful to organize these lists by year, which would also place a more effective limit on the size of each list?
890:
As with nom's rationale, this is again equally applicable to the console game lists as well. Just because a game is on the list of Xbox games doesn't mean it's not also on the PlayStation or Wii (or
Windows). For that argument to hold, the lists in this AfD would have to be titled "Windows-exclusive"
838:
It's not strictly about fairness (though I do argue for some consistency here), but the point was that size is the only difference in rationale between these lists and the console lists. But you also seem to object to (or are ignoring) the proposal to reduce the size of the lists (which
Mercury also
871:
per nom. additionally, having a game in the
Category, as opposed to this list, doesnt mean its not also a linux, mac, etc game. some of these are online games, multiplatform. this list, by duplicating the category, lists all multiplatform games, which is somewhat misleading, given the article name.
1077:
but suggest making it more specific, such as "List of
Windows XP games" etc. Or even, for the sake of manageability, a list with only those games that have existing Knowledge (XXG) articles. Other than the valid issue of unmaintainability that was raised above I believe this list should be kept
797:
It seems unfair that we can have complete game lists for every platform other than
Windows (or PC in general). Apparently just because the PC is unregulated, and therefore has the potential to have far more games, it's considered to be unmaintainable. In principle, however, these lists are no
1104:
Ordering by date and ordering by
Windows version are largely equivalent, since all games released before 1995 would be for Windows 3.1, games released before 2000 would be for Windows 95, and games released since then would be for XP. The borderline cases are not
1100:
I would expect the issue of maintainability to be more of a problem for old/unpopular gaming platforms that few people play nowadays. Everybody plays windows games and I'm sure there will be no shortage of people willing to keep these pages clean and
847:
this platform seems like we're trying to avoid the elephant in the room. It will take some work to begin with, for sure, but the lists would be far from unmaintainable. Once a sublist is done, it's done for good, as far as any list can be.
819:
its not a question about fairness, its about maintainability. There must be tens of thousands of PC games and as
Mercurywoodrose notes there are a number of issues with the existing lists. I just dont see how these articles can add much
159:
1019:
1128:
I want to create some date-sorted lists in my namespace so that we can compare the two arrangements. Instead of
CompactTOC8, which table should I use in order to get a list of years instead of letters?
1111:
All of the games here have WP articles, since I generated the data based on already-existing articles. There are a few red links but that's due to inefficiencies in the routine used to extract the data.
153:
687:
682:
641:
636:
595:
590:
549:
544:
503:
498:
457:
452:
411:
406:
365:
360:
319:
314:
273:
268:
227:
222:
87:
82:
691:
645:
599:
553:
507:
461:
415:
369:
323:
277:
231:
91:
120:
674:
628:
582:
536:
490:
444:
398:
352:
306:
260:
214:
74:
748:
1108:
The total size of the data I'm working with is about 400Kb. Ideally there would be just one big list, but that would cause problems for slower computers and connections.
938:
722:
774:
678:
632:
586:
540:
494:
448:
402:
356:
310:
264:
218:
78:
174:
141:
1078:
simply because it's missing.. the topic sorely needs coverage, as 2fort5r noted above, Windows is the only platform not covered. See discussion
985:
670:
624:
578:
532:
486:
440:
394:
348:
302:
256:
210:
70:
62:
993:
1274:
1256:
1237:
1218:
1203:
1160:
1138:
1123:
1090:
1069:
1057:
1034:
1008:
956:
928:
900:
881:
857:
829:
807:
786:
763:
737:
202:
56:
1225:
135:
1065:– looks like a bunch of valid lists. I don't know about merging, as we do have a couple of video game lists that are over 100KB long.
1145:
17:
131:
981:
The articles are still only rough drafts which no doubt contain errors - I intend to clean them up once they have all been posted
181:
1015:
1288:
36:
1082:
for context on the creation of these lists. Also, a list duplicating a category is not a valid reason to delete. --
1079:
989:
147:
877:
1194:
If the list is cut into three parts, broadly corresponding to O.S. type, the largest file will be about 250 Kb.
1287:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
1044:: the lists provide more information and have the potential to be more useful than categories; furthermore,
1244:
896:
853:
803:
191:
825:
759:
733:
198:
1045:
967:
This list should exist for completeness and conformity with the other platform-specific lists, such as
1157:
1031:
972:
968:
953:
925:
891:
games, which they currently are not, but that is one possibility for reducing the size of the lists.
873:
1088:
840:
821:
755:
729:
194:
167:
1066:
1053:
1270:
1252:
1233:
1199:
1134:
1119:
1004:
978:
Browsing the
Category page is slow, awkward and annoying, though that is where I took the data
892:
849:
799:
782:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
1214:
913:
1149:
1023:
945:
917:
1083:
1049:
1266:
1248:
1229:
1195:
1130:
1115:
1000:
778:
49:
872:
hmm. maybe if the list was games exclusively for the pc, it would be more useful.
708:
662:
616:
570:
524:
478:
432:
386:
340:
294:
248:
108:
1210:
1020:
Knowledge (XXG):WikiProject
Mathematics/List of mathematics articles (A)
1262:
1048:. It's a bit unfair to say they will be unmaintainable right now.
1281:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
992:. Is there a policy reason for this? If so, it should apply to
205:
I am also nominating the following similar articles as well:
1018:; and other such lists use the parentheses convention, e.g.
1243:^^ however, that simply duplicates the information in the
1014:
Regarding the moves: "Index" is more specific and there's
975:
you'll find that Windows is the only platform not covered
963:
Hello, it's me that started this project. Some points:
704:
700:
696:
658:
654:
650:
612:
608:
604:
566:
562:
558:
520:
516:
512:
474:
470:
466:
428:
424:
420:
382:
378:
374:
336:
332:
328:
290:
286:
282:
244:
240:
236:
115:
104:
100:
96:
916:; thought it probably needs some cleanup & TLC. --
166:
1046:
they are new and the creator is still working on them
180:
1265:in case anyone else wants to experiment with it.
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1291:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1209:A chronological list might be more informative.
775:list of video game related deletion discussions
749:list of Computing-related deletion discussions
8:
1173:Games released 1995 to 2001 inclusive = 1206
939:list of Lists-related deletion discussions
933:
743:
717:
723:list of Game-related deletion discussions
937:: This debate has been included in the
773:: This debate has been included in the
747:: This debate has been included in the
721:: This debate has been included in the
986:List of Windows games starting with A
671:List of Windows games starting with S
625:List of Windows games starting with M
579:List of Windows games starting with J
533:List of Windows games starting with I
487:List of Windows games starting with H
441:List of Windows games starting with G
395:List of Windows games starting with F
349:List of Windows games starting with E
303:List of Windows games starting with D
257:List of Windows games starting with C
211:List of Windows games starting with B
71:List of Windows games starting with A
63:List of Windows games starting with A
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
1187:Total number of games counted = 3791
1170:Games released 1995 or earlier = 252
994:List of MS-DOS games starting with A
1226:User:2fort5r/Index of Windows games
1176:Games released 2001 or later = 2333
24:
1263:Here's the raw data in CSV format
984:Someone is moving the pages from
190:Unmaintainable list, duplicates
1275:15:19, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
1257:12:58, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
1238:12:45, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
1219:02:50, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
1204:17:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
1161:12:04, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
1139:10:34, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
57:20:18, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
1:
1224:Example list sorted by date:
1166:Some additional statistics:
1124:12:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
1091:22:24, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
1070:20:02, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
1058:08:59, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
1035:07:44, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
1009:04:50, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
957:02:30, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
929:02:26, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
901:03:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
882:00:59, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
858:03:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
830:01:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
808:22:59, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
787:21:47, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
764:20:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
738:20:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
203:20:49, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
1184:Total number of games = 3478
1308:
1180:These categories overlap:
990:Index of Windows games (A)
1284:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
1190:Borderline cases = 313
1016:a wikiproject for them
192:Category:Windows games
1146:WikiProject Templates
1144:You could inquire at
1096:A few futher points:
1245:XXXX in video gaming
973:Lists of video games
969:List of MS-DOS games
841:2009 in video games
795:Keep or reorganize
44:The result was
971:; if you look at
959:
942:
789:
766:
752:
740:
726:
1299:
1286:
1155:
1086:
1029:
951:
943:
923:
769:
753:
727:
712:
694:
666:
648:
620:
602:
574:
556:
528:
510:
482:
464:
436:
418:
390:
372:
344:
326:
298:
280:
252:
234:
185:
184:
170:
118:
112:
94:
54:
34:
1307:
1306:
1302:
1301:
1300:
1298:
1297:
1296:
1295:
1289:deletion review
1282:
1153:
1084:
1027:
949:
921:
874:Mercurywoodrose
685:
669:
639:
623:
593:
577:
547:
531:
501:
485:
455:
439:
409:
393:
363:
347:
317:
301:
271:
255:
225:
209:
127:
114:
85:
69:
66:
50:
37:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
1305:
1303:
1294:
1293:
1260:
1259:
1222:
1221:
1192:
1191:
1188:
1185:
1178:
1177:
1174:
1171:
1164:
1163:
1113:
1112:
1109:
1106:
1102:
1094:
1093:
1072:
1060:
1038:
1037:
998:
997:
982:
979:
976:
961:
960:
931:
906:
905:
904:
903:
885:
884:
865:
864:
863:
862:
861:
860:
833:
832:
811:
810:
791:
790:
767:
741:
714:
713:
667:
621:
575:
529:
483:
437:
391:
345:
299:
253:
188:
187:
124:
65:
60:
42:
41:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1304:
1292:
1290:
1285:
1279:
1278:
1277:
1276:
1272:
1268:
1264:
1258:
1254:
1250:
1246:
1242:
1241:
1240:
1239:
1235:
1231:
1227:
1220:
1216:
1212:
1208:
1207:
1206:
1205:
1201:
1197:
1189:
1186:
1183:
1182:
1181:
1175:
1172:
1169:
1168:
1167:
1162:
1159:
1156:
1152:
1147:
1143:
1142:
1141:
1140:
1136:
1132:
1126:
1125:
1121:
1117:
1110:
1107:
1103:
1099:
1098:
1097:
1092:
1089:
1087:
1081:
1076:
1073:
1071:
1068:
1064:
1061:
1059:
1055:
1051:
1047:
1043:
1040:
1039:
1036:
1033:
1030:
1026:
1021:
1017:
1013:
1012:
1011:
1010:
1006:
1002:
995:
991:
987:
983:
980:
977:
974:
970:
966:
965:
964:
958:
955:
952:
948:
940:
936:
932:
930:
927:
924:
920:
915:
911:
908:
907:
902:
898:
894:
889:
888:
887:
886:
883:
879:
875:
870:
867:
866:
859:
855:
851:
846:
842:
837:
836:
835:
834:
831:
827:
823:
818:
815:
814:
813:
812:
809:
805:
801:
796:
793:
792:
788:
784:
780:
776:
772:
768:
765:
761:
757:
750:
746:
742:
739:
735:
731:
724:
720:
716:
715:
710:
706:
702:
698:
693:
689:
684:
680:
676:
672:
668:
664:
660:
656:
652:
647:
643:
638:
634:
630:
626:
622:
618:
614:
610:
606:
601:
597:
592:
588:
584:
580:
576:
572:
568:
564:
560:
555:
551:
546:
542:
538:
534:
530:
526:
522:
518:
514:
509:
505:
500:
496:
492:
488:
484:
480:
476:
472:
468:
463:
459:
454:
450:
446:
442:
438:
434:
430:
426:
422:
417:
413:
408:
404:
400:
396:
392:
388:
384:
380:
376:
371:
367:
362:
358:
354:
350:
346:
342:
338:
334:
330:
325:
321:
316:
312:
308:
304:
300:
296:
292:
288:
284:
279:
275:
270:
266:
262:
258:
254:
250:
246:
242:
238:
233:
229:
224:
220:
216:
212:
208:
207:
206:
204:
200:
196:
193:
183:
179:
176:
173:
169:
165:
161:
158:
155:
152:
149:
146:
143:
140:
137:
133:
130:
129:Find sources:
125:
122:
117:
110:
106:
102:
98:
93:
89:
84:
80:
76:
72:
68:
67:
64:
61:
59:
58:
55:
53:
47:
40:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
1283:
1280:
1261:
1223:
1193:
1179:
1165:
1150:
1127:
1114:
1095:
1074:
1062:
1041:
1024:
999:
962:
946:
934:
918:
909:
893:Ham Pastrami
868:
850:Ham Pastrami
844:
816:
800:Ham Pastrami
794:
770:
744:
718:
189:
177:
171:
163:
156:
150:
144:
138:
128:
51:
45:
43:
31:
28:
154:free images
1247:articles.
1105:numerous.
910:Weak Keep
1101:current.
1067:MuZemike
1050:RichsLaw
996:as well.
822:RadioFan
820:value.--
756:RadioFan
730:RadioFan
195:RadioFan
121:View log
1267:2fort5r
1249:2fort5r
1230:2fort5r
1196:2fort5r
1131:2fort5r
1116:2fort5r
1001:2fort5r
817:Comment
779:MrKIA11
688:protect
683:history
642:protect
637:history
596:protect
591:history
550:protect
545:history
504:protect
499:history
458:protect
453:history
412:protect
407:history
366:protect
361:history
320:protect
315:history
274:protect
269:history
228:protect
223:history
160:WP refs
148:scholar
88:protect
83:history
52:JForget
1211:SharkD
1158:(talk)
1032:(talk)
954:(talk)
926:(talk)
914:WP:CLN
869:Delete
692:delete
646:delete
600:delete
554:delete
508:delete
462:delete
416:delete
370:delete
324:delete
278:delete
232:delete
132:Google
116:delete
92:delete
1154:cobra
1151:Cyber
1028:cobra
1025:Cyber
950:cobra
947:Cyber
922:cobra
919:Cyber
709:views
701:watch
697:links
663:views
655:watch
651:links
617:views
609:watch
605:links
571:views
563:watch
559:links
525:views
517:watch
513:links
479:views
471:watch
467:links
433:views
425:watch
421:links
387:views
379:watch
375:links
341:views
333:watch
329:links
295:views
287:watch
283:links
249:views
241:watch
237:links
175:JSTOR
136:books
119:) – (
109:views
101:watch
97:links
16:<
1271:talk
1253:talk
1234:talk
1215:talk
1200:talk
1148:. --
1135:talk
1120:talk
1080:here
1075:Keep
1063:Keep
1054:talk
1042:Keep
1005:talk
935:Note
912:per
897:talk
878:talk
854:talk
845:only
826:talk
804:talk
783:talk
771:Note
760:talk
745:Note
734:talk
719:Note
705:logs
679:talk
675:edit
659:logs
633:talk
629:edit
613:logs
587:talk
583:edit
567:logs
541:talk
537:edit
521:logs
495:talk
491:edit
475:logs
449:talk
445:edit
429:logs
403:talk
399:edit
383:logs
357:talk
353:edit
337:logs
311:talk
307:edit
291:logs
265:talk
261:edit
245:logs
219:talk
215:edit
199:talk
168:FENS
142:news
105:logs
79:talk
75:edit
46:keep
988:to
944:--
182:TWL
1273:)
1255:)
1236:)
1228:.
1217:)
1202:)
1137:)
1122:)
1056:)
1022:--
1007:)
941:.
899:)
880:)
856:)
828:)
806:)
785:)
777:.
762:)
751:.
736:)
725:.
707:|
703:|
699:|
695:|
690:|
686:|
681:|
677:|
661:|
657:|
653:|
649:|
644:|
640:|
635:|
631:|
615:|
611:|
607:|
603:|
598:|
594:|
589:|
585:|
569:|
565:|
561:|
557:|
552:|
548:|
543:|
539:|
523:|
519:|
515:|
511:|
506:|
502:|
497:|
493:|
477:|
473:|
469:|
465:|
460:|
456:|
451:|
447:|
431:|
427:|
423:|
419:|
414:|
410:|
405:|
401:|
385:|
381:|
377:|
373:|
368:|
364:|
359:|
355:|
339:|
335:|
331:|
327:|
322:|
318:|
313:|
309:|
293:|
289:|
285:|
281:|
276:|
272:|
267:|
263:|
247:|
243:|
239:|
235:|
230:|
226:|
221:|
217:|
201:)
162:)
107:|
103:|
99:|
95:|
90:|
86:|
81:|
77:|
48:.
1269:(
1251:(
1232:(
1213:(
1198:(
1133:(
1118:(
1085:œ
1052:(
1003:(
895:(
876:(
852:(
824:(
802:(
781:(
758:(
754:—
732:(
728:—
711:)
673:(
665:)
627:(
619:)
581:(
573:)
535:(
527:)
489:(
481:)
443:(
435:)
397:(
389:)
351:(
343:)
305:(
297:)
259:(
251:)
213:(
197:(
186:)
178:·
172:·
164:·
157:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
134:(
126:(
123:)
113:(
111:)
73:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.