676:." Responding to the claims: (1) It does serve a useful informational purpose - that of listing the top several dozen judoka, and furthermore, it is "annotated" (one of the desirable properties of such lists, and one reason why Categories do *not* "do the job"); (2) it *is* navigable - I cannot understand how you can make that claim. --
414:
so it's of no help. (2) to argue that my criteria are not based on consensus and are "just made up" is quite specious. That is equivalent to claiming that every contribution to
Knowledge must be subject to consensus before being placed on the page. (3) The list will need very little work to maintain.
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have pretty clear inclusion criteria. Generally, consensus decides what goes on here. May I remind you that your criteria are not based on consensus, it's just something you made up. The criteria are "major contribution to judo" or "achieved significant results" - completely vague. Knowledge doesn't
506:
If they were merged, we'd have to do so under two major headings: "Notable judoka" and "Celebrity judoka". I dislike the idea of merging because the "Celebrity" list trivialises the important "Notable" list, and I can't see the point of merging just for the sake of having one fewer
Knowledge page.
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do the job better) with no inclusion criteria (any judoka, or "any judoka with a
Knowledge article" could be on the list, which renders it useless - again compared to a category). The few judoka who've had lasting impact, such as the founder of the sport, should be mentioned
415:
How often does a "notable" judoka come along? Your argument is more applicable to lists of gold medalists. Let's delete all those lists first. (4) As to your "who cares about judo" argument, we might as well delete the main judo article on that basis. --
396:
need lists without good inclusion criteria. Another thing: Who, do you imagine, will work on the list? Almost nobody on
Knowledge cares about judo. Guess who created some 97% of the judo biographies here.
643:
What does "relisting" mean? I presume we are to respond to the original proposal all over again, ignoring any prior comments (particularly because they relate to out-of-date versions of the article)? --
373:
The criteria for whether any sentence should be included in any
Knowledge article is just as arbitrary. It's not possible to define "notable" succinctly. I have defined criteria for why people should
618:
I can see the need for this discussion to be carried further, as there are strong arguments on both sides. Perhaps 5 more days will sort this out, perhaps not! Procedural, abstaining from opinion
137:
222:
672:, please note the first sentence of that link states "Redundancy between lists and categories is beneficial because they are synergistic, and is covered in the guideline
341:. I have added notability criteria, but that is difficult to do as usual. People who are notable enough for inclusion may or may not be included in the body of the
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I went back and forth on this one. What pushed me to delete was the opinion that this page is trying to do the same thing that a
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article (like
Koizumi), and keep people like Geesink on the list. Someone who is most knowledgeable could start deleting now. --
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But that is a list of all judoka, which doesn't help people look for what is historically interesting and notable. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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562:- can we re-list this to get a consensus? I see none here. Right now, I would default close to keep, and
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would accomplish. The category system seems perfect to accomplish what this page is trying to do.
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perhaps could be a category but no clear inclusion criteria here--much too broad as stands. Cf.
297:"Having an entry in Knowledge is not sufficient notability criteria for inclusion on this list.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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303:"As a guide, to be included on this list, the person must have either done a credible amount
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
410:(1)But the criteria for inclusion on this list is MUCH stronger than required by
300:"People on this list must be notable for factors other than their judo expertise.
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the "celebrity" into this one and rename to "Comprehensive List of notable..."--
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542:- per nom. This fails to show a purpose sufficient to justify its existence. --
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in that it's not needed for information, not navigative and not developmental.
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be included on that list. Wikipedians are smart enough to work from that. --
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306:"of judo training, or else have done it in front of a large audience.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Now it's even worse: Your criteria are completely arbitrary!
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Who decides what is "historically interesting and notable"?
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applies to my prior answer. So back over the fence I go to
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but delete around 90% of the entries and rename it to
250:, don't need two lists but this is the better name. --
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Why is this the better name?? What should be merged?
590:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
442:We already have, as noted above, category: judoka
223:list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions
757:). No further edits should be made to this page.
674:Knowledge:Categories, lists, and series boxes
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52:may be a better venue for this discussion.
564:I would keep anyway for all the blue links
221:: This debate has been included in the
521:The "Notable" list is not important.
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144:An unnecessary list (categories and
566:, but I want to hear from others.
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670:Knowledge:Lists#Purposes of lists
668:. Regarding the link provided to
159:Knowledge:Lists#Purposes of lists
146:List of Olympic medalists in judo
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
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211:09:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
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171:21:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
294:has criteria for inclusion:
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74:14:23, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
750:Please do not modify it.
292:List of celebrity judoka
248:List of celebrity judoka
181:List of celebrity judoka
50:WikiProject Martial arts
32:Please do not modify it.
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733:Gtstricky
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698:category
497:Sallicio
252:Nate1481
151:in prose
138:View log
568:Bearian
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105:protect
100:history
722:WP:CSL
694:Delete
621:Keeper
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540:Delete
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61:dokter
493:Merge
246:with
244:Merge
136:) – (
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