447:, for example. Its sole reference to any connection she had with Orthodox Judaism is a note about her attendance, for an unstated number of years, at an Orthodox school starting at age 5. Nothing in the article conveys anything about any "experience" she might have undergone related to her having gone to an Orthodox school as a child and her not being Orthodox now, let alone any commonality between her and other people on the list. Are we intended to understand that common threads underlie the experiences of Streisand, Baruch Spinoza, and Jesus Christ? I just don't see it.
468:--the word orthodox is a useful word, as made clear on the article's talk page. Debresser insists on not including that clarification on the page's article page for some reason, even though that statement would clarify that point. The list is meangingful on many levels. And the insistence that consensus can't be found for who is and isn't a traditionally rabbinic Jew is absurd. Most of Debresser's objections are red herrings.
572:
WP:V requirements, so after deleting the unsourced entries, there would only be two entries on the list. I also tried clicking on a couple of the blue links, and neither of the articles identified their topic as "orthodox" (or formerly orthodox). My limited knowledge of
Judaism is that the schisms in the US are unlike those elsewhere in the world.
308:
1. Non-notable list. 2. Incorrect usage of term "Orthodox", as SirJoseph correctly mentioned. 3. Unclear what is "Orthodox"? "Ultra-Orthodox", or less than that as well? And if somebody was Ultra-Orthodox and became regular
Orthodox? 4. Unclear inclusion criteria. E.g. what if somebody was Orthodox,
571:
The lede has no sources to identify the topic as being worthy of notice...vague list criteria made up by
Knowledge editors do not satisfy list wp:notability. In addition, the lede contradicts the title of the article by bundling an additional category to the list topic. Blue links do not satisfy
417:
The creator of this misconceived list has stated on the talkpage: "I created this list to help capture the unique experiences of those who left the traditional orthodox/rabbinic Jewish community in the modern era, and to tell the story of the many people who have made that transition." Per
166:
242:
Sir Joseph failed to read the ongoing discussion on the article talk page before marking for deletion and commenting. His issues have already been discussed and addressed. The page is most certainly notable.
160:
92:
87:
309:
then wasn't, and then later became
Orthodox again? 5. And in general, religiosity is a spectrum and can not be defined narrowly. 6. Also, who are we to judge who is or isn't Orthodox?
396:
The ancient portion of list list is not historically meaningful; the 19th and 20th century portions are. The inclusion of any one individual can be decided on the article talk page. `
96:
271:
79:
119:
288:
197:
This fails notability. Many of the people on the list were never
Orthodox since the term Orthodox post-dated them. In addition, the article relies on OR and SYNTH.
226:
126:
443:
Besides, the list surely doesn't accomplish the stated goal. It's a list of names. It doesn't capture anything. As for the articles the links lead to, take
384:
I can't imagine this becoming a list which is (1) useful, (2) well-defined, and (3) based on sources. Including people like Jesus Christ is just farcical.
181:
148:
258:
Please don't tell me what I failed to read. 1) The article is misnamed. Orthodoxy is from the late-1800's. 2) WP is not a repository of lists.
337:
355:
pure listcruft without any objective criteria and basically a POV fork since "notable former
Orthodox Jews" is not a neutral description
598:
581:
562:
539:
514:
488:
456:
431:
407:
388:
374:
345:
318:
297:
280:
264:
252:
235:
217:
203:
61:
142:
492:
138:
419:
83:
17:
368:
188:
75:
67:
420:
Knowledge:What
Knowledge is not#Knowledge is not a blog, Web hosting service, social networking service, or memorial site
154:
617:
577:
40:
341:
558:
535:
484:
248:
613:
554:
531:
480:
474:
244:
36:
573:
452:
295:
278:
262:
233:
215:
201:
57:
590:
550:
510:
427:
314:
174:
505:
Lokshin kugel is the creator of this article, and seems to be personally invested in the subject.
594:
362:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
612:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
444:
448:
292:
275:
259:
230:
212:
198:
53:
506:
423:
310:
403:
385:
356:
329:
530:
I simply do not like bullies. Debresser's statement lacks assumption of good faith.
549:
I'd like to point out that most issues brought up on this page are discussed here:
113:
333:
398:
606:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
422:
he has made the point for deletion as well as any of us.
109:
105:
101:
173:
272:
list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
620:). No further edits should be made to this page.
289:list of Religion-related deletion discussions
187:
8:
287:Note: This debate has been included in the
270:Note: This debate has been included in the
227:list of Judaism-related deletion discussions
225:Note: This debate has been included in the
589:. Self-crafted, unsourced, subjective.
286:
269:
224:
7:
76:List of notable former Orthodox Jews
68:List of notable former Orthodox Jews
24:
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
473:the above comment was left by
1:
457:13:07, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
432:10:11, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
408:09:54, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
389:08:50, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
375:04:58, 31 December 2015 (UTC)
346:13:47, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
319:12:57, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
298:04:18, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
281:04:18, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
265:03:20, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
253:02:45, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
236:02:27, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
218:20:11, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
204:02:27, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
599:13:16, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
582:02:06, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
563:02:08, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
540:01:48, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
515:01:17, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
62:01:20, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
637:
609:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
493:few or no other edits
495:outside this topic.
475:User:Lokshin kugel
496:
477:
300:
283:
238:
628:
611:
478:
472:
445:Barbra Streisand
192:
191:
177:
129:
117:
99:
48:The result was
34:
636:
635:
631:
630:
629:
627:
626:
625:
624:
618:deletion review
607:
574:Unscintillating
134:
125:
90:
74:
71:
41:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
634:
632:
623:
622:
602:
601:
584:
547:
546:
545:
544:
543:
542:
520:
519:
518:
517:
470:
469:
462:
461:
460:
459:
435:
434:
411:
410:
391:
378:
377:
349:
348:
338:69.118.162.150
322:
321:
302:
301:
284:
267:
240:
239:
221:
220:
195:
194:
131:
70:
65:
46:
45:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
633:
621:
619:
615:
610:
604:
603:
600:
596:
592:
588:
585:
583:
579:
575:
570:
567:
566:
565:
564:
560:
556:
555:Lokshin kugel
552:
541:
537:
533:
532:Lokshin kugel
529:
526:
525:
524:
523:
522:
521:
516:
512:
508:
504:
501:
500:
499:
498:
497:
494:
490:
486:
482:
481:Lokshin kugel
476:
467:
464:
463:
458:
454:
450:
446:
442:
439:
438:
437:
436:
433:
429:
425:
421:
416:
413:
412:
409:
405:
401:
400:
395:
392:
390:
387:
383:
380:
379:
376:
372:
371:
366:
365:
360:
359:
354:
351:
350:
347:
343:
339:
335:
331:
327:
324:
323:
320:
316:
312:
307:
306:Strong delete
304:
303:
299:
296:
294:
290:
285:
282:
279:
277:
273:
268:
266:
263:
261:
257:
256:
255:
254:
250:
246:
245:Lokshin kugel
237:
234:
232:
228:
223:
222:
219:
216:
214:
211:
208:
207:
206:
205:
202:
200:
190:
186:
183:
180:
176:
172:
168:
165:
162:
159:
156:
153:
150:
147:
144:
140:
137:
136:Find sources:
132:
128:
124:
121:
115:
111:
107:
103:
98:
94:
89:
85:
81:
77:
73:
72:
69:
66:
64:
63:
59:
55:
51:
44:
42:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
608:
605:
586:
568:
551:WP:BATHWATER
548:
527:
502:
471:
465:
449:—Largo Plazo
440:
414:
397:
393:
381:
369:
363:
357:
352:
325:
305:
241:
209:
196:
184:
178:
170:
163:
157:
151:
145:
135:
122:
49:
47:
31:
28:
491:) has made
161:free images
528:Disclosure
503:Disclosure
293:Sir Joseph
276:Sir Joseph
260:Sir Joseph
231:Sir Joseph
213:Sir Joseph
199:Sir Joseph
54:Malcolmxl5
614:talk page
507:Debresser
424:Debresser
311:Debresser
37:talk page
616:or in a
591:JohnInDC
489:contribs
358:Snuggums
120:View log
39:or in a
441:Comment
415:Comment
167:WP refs
155:scholar
93:protect
88:history
587:Delete
569:Delete
382:Delete
353:Delete
330:WP:NOR
328:Fails
326:Delete
210:Delete
139:Google
97:delete
50:delete
404:talk
370:edits
182:JSTOR
143:books
127:Stats
114:views
106:watch
102:links
16:<
595:talk
578:talk
559:talk
536:talk
511:talk
485:talk
466:Keep
453:talk
428:talk
394:Keep
386:Zero
364:talk
342:talk
334:WP:V
332:and
315:talk
249:talk
175:FENS
149:news
110:logs
84:talk
80:edit
58:talk
399:DGG
189:TWL
118:– (
597:)
580:)
561:)
553:.
538:)
513:)
487:•
479:—
455:)
430:)
406:)
373:)
367:/
344:)
336:.
317:)
291:.
274:.
251:)
229:.
169:)
112:|
108:|
104:|
100:|
95:|
91:|
86:|
82:|
60:)
52:--
593:(
576:(
557:(
534:(
509:(
483:(
451:(
426:(
402:(
361:(
340:(
313:(
247:(
193:)
185:·
179:·
171:·
164:·
158:·
152:·
146:·
141:(
133:(
130:)
123:·
116:)
78:(
56:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.