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century and so represent an interesting snapshot in time. It shouldn't take much to see that such cultural representations are a significant part of history, but many
Knowledge editors seem to have a blind spot when it comes to the value of this kind of information, if not an outright antipathy to "low culture". The nom seems quite frightened that unless we delete all lists of songs by subject, that others will create and work on lists that he does not like. I can't say that's a compelling concern either.
766:; certainly we shouldn't try to index songs based on something they merely mention (a "list of songs that mention bicycles" would get no support from me), or overly broad subjects that end up being completely uninformative. But if the options are tolerating some silly ones or wiping out all indexes of songs by subject indiscriminately, I'll go with the former. Note also that we have
941:. As a long distance cyclist, I find this list inspiring, and useful. It's nice to ride to bicycle songs. Sure, some of the songs' subject are not exclusively about cycling. Maybe there is a discussions to have about what songs are on the list. But the list itself merits inclusion. It reveals, joyfully, an important perspective on bicycle culture.
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songs which is unsupported by the sources. As for the Green book, this is a professional work and so trumps anything which we amateurs might opine. This is the essence of the issue with OR - that we don't present our own ideas but present those of independent professionals. You don't get to pick and choose.
845:
bicycles as the subject of those songs. Even for this list, where we have a source that talks rather unexpectedly at length about the appearance of bicycles in late 19th century song (and does at one point call them "bicycle songs"), the referenced material hardly makes the case that these songs are
599:
and the creator being fully aware of the numerous precedents that these lists are generally deleted. You are also being disengenious, I did not work on those other songs by transport lists, I merely added a project tag, that does not preclude them being nominated for deletion by me or another editor.
850:
bicycles. Rather, they are "songs about courting" and changes to the courting scene enabled by an "escape the family parlor." I have no question that material adapted from that source belongs in article-space, discussing the historical culture impact of bicycles (EDIT: Indeed, this would make for
890:
about
Vietnam?) goes a long way towards establishing the theme or subject as defining of those songs. It sounds like you're questioning why the song talks about bicycles, and if the bicycles aren't an end in themselves then you think they don't qualify, which is squeezing too hard in my view. At
721:
Some list articles like this were deleted, others were kept, and many others haven't been challenged. Doesn't matter at all since its a case by case issue. This list article contains a lot of songs notable enough to have their own article. The list offers far more information than . And it has
917:
There's not a trace of OR here because every one of these songs was obtained from another source, rather than my own thinking, and there is generally a lot of commonality in the sources. It's
Squeamish Ossifrage's thesis which seems to be OR - an attempt to construct an alternate theme for these
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is not relevant, nor is it defining of that song? That's not a very convincing claim, particularly when you look at this list (which no doubt should be, and could be, developed further) and see that many of the songs were about the novelty or trendiness of bicycles at the turn of the previous
833:. With very few exceptions, I find lists in this category problematic. One problem, significant here, is the original research inherent in them. Postdlf, above, agrees that a "list of songs that mention bicycles" would be problematic; how does this differ from such a hypothetical list? "
484:
The nomination seems to be a cookie-cutter nomination and none of the points made is valid. The first sentence is just noise — what is relevant supposed to mean here? The basis of the article is certainly defining — what could be plainer? Note that we already have a
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any rate, I'd like to see some more work developing sources and comments on these songs before it is given up on, particularly given the complete lack of talk page activity for this list at present which makes me think this AFD is premature at best.
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855:). But I don't think that conveys evidence that this list contemplates a cross-categorization with its own notability ... or that there is any objective means of determining inclusion. And as I've mentioned elsewhere, I particularly discount
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says "A list topic is considered notable if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources" And just to imagine people creating lists of songs by moon, the stars and whatever next comes up in an editors mind fails
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either. If you are correct in your analysis (the only substantive !delete comments so far in this AFD, btw), then yes I'd agree that if there are no songs actually about bicycles/cycling then the list is not useful, in the same way that
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Interesting list that may be useful for those wanting to promote enviromentally friendly forms of transport. Also per
Postdlf, though wouldnt say its just low culture, even Royals such as good Kate and William like to use Boris Bikes.
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882:" is not really a song "about" bridges. No doubt there may be some entries that shouldn't be included. But a reference calling a group of songs "bicycle songs," even if the songs are "really" about courting (in the same way that
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created by another editor which demonstrates the concept being used in a similar way. The precedents listed are non-binding because we have an equally long list of other song classifications which have survived AFD — see
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structure. Lists complement that and can flesh that structure out with annotations, organizations alternative to alphabetical, and entries that though verifiable do not merit their own articles.
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841:" certainly do little more than that. The bicycles are incidental or metaphorical mentions and by no means the subject of the song; more importantly, we have no sources that
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As for the claims that this is pointless, useless &c., these are not policy-based arguments nor based upon independent evidence, just bilious and vexatious complaints of
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and if left unchecked will lead to a flood of pointless and useless lists that will only please the creators. Or, in the
British vernacular, on your bikes with these lists!
549:. These demonstrate the validity of such categorisation by professionals in the music business, just as biologists categorise species and chemists categorise chemicals.
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Well, hands up, my error, I forgot I hotcatted List of Train songs and a few other list articles into the correct category scheme, hardly "working on" or contrary to
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as having insufficient coverage in independent third-party sources. If such sources are integrated into the article, feel free to ping my talk page. Alternatively,
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429:. Mind you, I'm really sorry to be chopping something so obviously, delightfully silly. Maybe we could put it into a WP Essay on joyful silliness, or something.
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1018:— and this article is already in it. This indicates that you have not examined either the article nor the categories with care. See
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and certainly not to be confused with support, anymore than the fact I project tagged this article AND nominated it for deletion. --
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570:. The nominator seems to be suggesting that bicycles are not a proper form of transport or some similar prejudice contrary to
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Finally, note that the nominator has himself worked upon other similar classifications such as
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such content, not to delete it. There are sources which categorise songs in this way such as
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
753:. The nom insists that "There is nothing relevant about a song being about a bicycle. It is
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The Voices That Are Gone: Themes in
Nineteenth-Century American Popular Song
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which explains that we do not delete lists in order to create categories.
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The Green book of songs by subject: the thematic guide to popular music
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There is nothing relevant about a song being about a bicycle. It is
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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No, I was using that label in reference to songs, not biking.
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Here's another recent example of the nominator working upon
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