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lyrical terms will be protologisms of uncertain usage, making that judgement call also by necessity contravenes WP:NOR. Further, it appears that the page is being populated under an entirely arbitrary criterion—a song is allowed if it seems to some editors to be "definitely about masturbation", but other songs that could also perfectly well be "about masturbation", but are not recognized by the editors as such, will not be admitted. Non-NPOV contruct. Next, we have the problem with the title. "
165:. It passed AfD (or VfD at the time) once. Since then every letter of the alphabet has been cleaned up (except T I think) with the lyrics as an HTML comment as a source, and I've provided a criteria for inclusion that eliminates innuendo (see talk). I didn't think it was encyclopedic, but we've come to consensus once so I've cleaned up virtually all of them. I'd hate to waste that effort.
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As per BD2412. Some would say this list was useless because the subject matter seems silly, but a social scientist or historian would find a list like this tremendously useful. Really: I wish I had a list of jazz songs about marijuana, for example, when I was doing my thesis a few years ago. This
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Wikibofh, I think the fact that you put so much (wasted) effort into trying to salvage this entry is an excellent example of why we collectively need to be more proactive about not starting such non-articles to begin with and doing a better job of deleting them the first time when they do get made.
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Before the policy was implemented, the list was at the point of unmaintainability as people originally thought that it also included songs that people think are about masturbation. If we look for songs that are intended to be about it, the list has become subtrivial listcruft. But if we let people
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So you think it would be better to not have any, and never remove a song that was placed there? I refer to how such songs as
Another Brick in the Wall (Pink Floyd) and High Hopes (Frank Sinatra) and Iron Man (Black Sabbath) and Pinball Wizard (The Who) and Thunderstruck (AC/DC) and TNT (AC/DC) were
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as unmaintainable and unencyclopedic list. It's not that the "subject matter seems silly", but that its contents are inherently ambiguous and unverifiable. It cannot be "kept orderly", since the criterion for being on the list is that some person thought some lyric was an allusion to masturbation.
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are very different contructs. By placing something in a list you are making a statement about that item, and you cannot qualify or nuance your statement the way you might in an article. Therefore lists should only be used for things where such a binary determination is clear and unambiguous. It
331:
Unencyclopedic. The discussion on the talk page illustrates the problem with lists like these. There are arguments over whether "milkshake" consitutes "ass-shaking", breast-shaking", or something else altogether. Deciding one way or the other requires an arbitrary call; because many implicated
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for the previous ballot. The previous ballot was filled out back in the days that AfD (articles for deletion) Was called VfD (votes for deletion). The new policy on this song list has prompted a second nomination for deletion therefore votes on the previous ballot may not apply anymore (well
732:
The consensus opinions of the editors contributing to an article should be considered definitive (at least until other editors choose to chime in and potentially change the consensus) because this is a wiki. It's no more arbitrary than any other article that requires the good judgement of the
718:
No, I would rather just not keep the article at all. It's inherently just a matter of opinion what should be included, the criteria are ultimately arbitrary, and why should one (or two or three) editors' opinions be considered definitive? There's no ability to
511:. Interesting list, cruft is not a deletion criteria, and it passed a previous AfD. When that AfD passed, songs like Another Brick in the Wall were on it. Now we've cleaned it up so every song there is actually about masturbation, so its a worthwhile list.
72:
353:
either is, or it is not. For example: "List of member countries of the UN." "List of
Japanese states." "List of Ford models manufactured and sold between 1970 and 2004." "List of astronauts who have landed on the moon." Not this please.
552:
page about how to improve, as it seems to be pretty ambiguous in terms of both value, and valuelessness. cruft can be a deletion criteria, specifically as being not notable enough to merit an encyclopedia entry, but this is almost not
683:
That's admirable, but it's not practical to have "policy constraints" on the content of
Knowledge (XXG) articles. No one owns the article, the "keepers" may lose interest, and it's just an open invitation to edit wars.
251:
I'm not going to argue with you on that. :) I think I came across this on a Random
Article click. I was suprised it had survived an AfD. I probably shouldn't have put in the effort, but hey, it was amusing. :)
548:, although I could go either way. It seems pretty non-notable, but a lot of people seem to feel differently. better safe than speedy. Instead of a third AfD, could we maybe table the discussion to the
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I believe that lists with trivial inclusion criteria do not meet the
Knowledge (XXG) article inclusion criteria, and I believe this list's criteria for inclusion are, were, and will remain trivial.
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Wikibofh has done what should be done with lists like this, so it can stay. In the future, lists either need to start with a verifiable basis, or they need to be deleted until get one.
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though I agree it should be kept to just songs which are intended to be about masturbation. "Pink Thing" by XTC is about a father and his newborn baby.
653:. No, thats what the list used to be like. Now Wikibofh, me, and others make a consensus on whether each song should be added, and we check lyrics.
490:. Not encyclopedic to begin with, and with the subjective nature of the list (as Encephalon correctly points out), it has no chance of ever being
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several times, I have little doubt it will be admitted. Yet, it may be highly inaccurate to list such a song under a title that claims it is
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Kind of. It's more a call for as strict as possible a standard of usefulness for lists. Certainly much stricter than for real articles.
17:
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While I respect the "utility" argument, I have concerns about the idea of letting it apply to lists. Articles, sure. But lists?
36:
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the "utility argument." Are you saying that you think useful lists should be deleted?
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466:- No idea why everyone voted keep the first time, thought it was funny? How is this any more notable or viable than,
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856:, as per Wikibofh and BD2412. I still don't understand why amusing lists like this one anger deletionists so much.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a
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masturbation, when that word might simply be a minor feature of the lyrics. I think we should remember that
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Due to some policy constraints set for this article, some circumstances have changed. See the
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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If the eventual consensus is to delete this, you might want to think about pruning down
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/List of songs about masturbation (1st nomination)
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list would be wonderful for a serious researcher. It just has to be kept orderly. --
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This kind of stuff is so far from the spirit of what WP was ever even meant to be.
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820:. Totally subjective topic, has no chance of ever becoming verifiable. --
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880:. Oh, what the hell. It's amusing and the songs are (mostly) notable. -
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This kind of stuff is random trivial garbaaaage in my humble opinion.--
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Save people the time having pointless debates over a pointless list.
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It's obviously maintainable, since people have been maintaining it.
565:. Sort of thing that might be useful to a serious social scientist.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.
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to masturbation, then it would probably be unmaintainable.
91:, either case would render the article UNSALVAGEABLE. --
902:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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275:interesting, verifiable, survived VfD before.
71:for more details on these circumstances. See
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378:as well. lots of lists of song by subject.
336:"? If a love song clearly mentions the word
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474:. I would however, vote extreme keep on
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80:add songs that have phrases that are
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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478:, as they are inherently notable. -
630:That is not remotely encyclopedic.
291:so damn bored i'm going blind...
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263:as per The Literate Engineer. --
402:as per various arguments above.
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119:File:Caranimationforvmolotov.gif
61:List of songs about masturbation
376:Category:Dynamic_lists_of_songs
317:"We make the internet not suck"
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225:. Pointlessly trivial list. --
1:
832:, notable and interesting. --
44:The result of the debate was
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849:11:57, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
837:22:33, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
825:19:33, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
807:09:40, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
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558:20:19, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
537:19:53, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
504:18:55, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
483:17:14, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
472:List of songs about sleeping
459:16:49, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
447:13:57, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
423:13:36, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
407:11:42, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
395:11:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
366:10:48, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
324:10:46, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
308:09:51, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
284:07:57, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
268:07:10, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
247:06:39, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
234:05:33, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
218:05:22, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
213:per precedent and wikibofh.
206:05:17, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
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189:- this goes beyond drivel.
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170:04:46, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
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142:04:10, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
130:03:57, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
96:03:48, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
55:17:59, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
733:Knowledge (XXG) community.
476:List of songs about schools
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799:, useful and interesting.
468:List of songs about eating
895:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
618:22:41, 15 October 2005
773:The Literate Engineer
755:The Literate Engineer
244:The Literate Engineer
139:The Literate Engineer
149:Useless Liftcruft --
37:Votes for Undeletion
900:undeletion request
801:Christopher Parham
334:About masturbation
710:How's my driving?
675:How's my driving?
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533:How's my driving?
432:Andrew Lenahan -
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834:Kurt Shaped Box
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509:Strong Keep
201:. Useless.
191:Storm Rider
868:per nom --
858:Factitious
764:Factitious
735:Factitious
641:Factitious
418:on this.--
878:Weak Keep
608:Hipocrite
606:Why not?
542:Weak Keep
93:SuperDude
69:talk page
814:Why Not?
546:Wikibofh
480:Hahnchen
456:Marskell
372:Comment:
350:articles
313:Abstain.
254:Wikibofh
167:Wikibofh
155:watz sup
82:innuendo
76:maybe).
751:Comment
701:dwolf24
666:dwolf24
651:Comment
596:Tedzsee
524:dwolf24
414:Drop a
382:ALKIVAR
329:Delete.
295:ALKIVAR
239:Comment
151:JAranda
114:Molotov
882:Sensor
870:Rogerd
866:Delete
822:Corvus
818:Delete
804:(talk)
785:Delete
721:verify
622:(UTC)
581:SimonP
568:BD2412
553:cruft.
464:Delete
452:Delete
412:Delete
400:Delete
356:enceph
265:Kjkolb
261:Delete
227:Calton
223:Delete
199:Delete
187:Delete
147:Delete
135:Delete
124:(talk)
101:Delete
89:Delete
50:Splash
846:Xoloz
789:Vsion
555:Jesse
470:, or
420:MONGO
404:CalJW
346:lists
342:about
279:Grue
203:*drew
179:Kappa
16:<
854:Keep
842:Keep
830:Keep
812:Keep
797:Keep
706:talk
671:talk
614:Talk
604:Keep
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577:Keep
563:Keep
550:Talk
544:per
529:talk
496:Tito
492:NPOV
428:Keep
416:MOAB
361:alon
348:and
321:Gaff
289:Keep
273:Keep
231:Talk
211:Keep
175:Keep
163:Keep
725:MCB
632:MCB
440:bli
48:. -
712:)
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443:nd
437:ar
434:St
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708:—
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514:R
387:™
300:™
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.