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medicine, and therefore cannot make any quality contribution with expertise in that regard. However, what I can comment on with fair certainty is that there is a moral / ethical issue with listing the names of otherwise non-noteworthy people in a list which documents their suicide on what is supposed to be an encyclopaedia. To this degree, it could be argued that the need to protect these personās privacy is greater than the academic quality materialized from documenting their deaths. Furthermore, I agree with you that there is sufficient notability for an article about death related to academic pressures. With this said I think it would be equally important not to name non-notable private individuals, especially taking into consideration the age for some of the victims. In some countries, for example the United
Kingdom, news sources and other publicly facing documenters are restrained from publishing such personal details about minorās deaths in these circumstances. Conclusively, publishing the full names of these victims is not necessary or even prudent to gain sufficient coverage of the issue thus this list is redundant.
654:). Verification is not enough, but it instantly eliminates all of the claims that this is original research. Likewise, suicide due to academic pressures is absolutely a notable subject. In the US/UK it may not stand out among other causes of suicide, but in places like South Korea, Singapore, and Hong Kong, it's at worst an epidemic or at best a moral panic (worst/best admittedly unnecessarily loaded terms here). Either way, it's the subject of popular and scholarly articles alike. I'm not surprised that the user(s) who started the list focused on Singapore, as that's one of the places that struggles with the problem -- and being incomplete is not a reason for deletion, so I don't know why that's even coming up here. All this said, obviously I haven't jumped in with a keep !vote (and not just because the current is pushing too hard the other way). While there are a ton of sources on the
822:. While this list is not the best way to present the topic, neither of the reasons given by the nominator stand up to scrutiny. The list is not indiscriminate, but clearly defined as suicides attributed to academic pressure, and the topic is clearly notable in Asia (as the sourcing provided in the article demonstrates). The geographical coverage is not problematic, since the issue itself is notable in a particular geographical area. Several arguments have been made that this is original research, but these have already been shown not to stand up.
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indeed lists of improperly referenced content. Furthermore, āacademic pressuresā is not an official cause of death, suicide is and that has many contributing factors which doctors carefully decide on for a very good reason. In the absence of any evidence based on doctors themselves stating this as a major contributing factor for large quantities of suicides it would be improper for us
Knowledge editors to state it for them.
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I do not believe that there is any argument against there being academic sources to provide support for the statement that āacademic pressures can contribute towards suicide.ā However, that is not the issue here, the issue here is do we need to provide a list of otherwise non-notable people by their
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specifies that "The entirety of the list does not need to be documented in sources for notability, only that the grouping or set in general has been. Because the group or set is notable, the individual items in the list do not need to be independently notable", which means the bar to pass is whether
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in any of the cases mentioned on this list attributed those deaths to āacademic pressuresā and this can be evidenced then the assertion that the deaths had been in anyway attributed to this factor is mere hearsay. I do not believe
Knowledge is a place for hearsay or improperly referenced content or
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a contributing factor towards suicide. However, with this said, I think it is important we do not lose sight over the actual topic which is suicide. This is a medical topic which I would say requires strong academic sources to support any notion made thereof in relation to it. I am not a doctor in
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to have committed suicide based on a contributing factor being academic pressures, it is not an article. While the notability and sources do prove, this notability might exist for an article there is no benefit of showing individual names of otherwise non-noteworthy people and in fact it could be
631:- List is original research, made up (almost?) entirely of non-notable individuals/events, etc. Also, I think that the sensitivity of this issue and the inclusion of addresses (often home addresses) and direct quotes from primary source newspapers about of details seems unethical.
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to explore such a project. I started to create a stub just now myself, but didn't feel like I have the time to write something that would do justice to the serious subject. If
Jfanderson68 (who created this list) is interested, however, and wants help, I hope he/she will
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full names to provide any knowledge to the reader about the subject ā the answer is no. For you to flippantly claim bias without any reasoning is theatrical rather than prudent information to the debate.This is a list of people by full name who are
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650:, but taking issue with some of the reasons for deletion above, and with a suggestion) - A basic search for sources (and glance at those included) shows that there many instances that can be verified (including from e.g.
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Death by suicide does not alone make you notable nor does death by suicide due to academic pressures. The subject might be notable but indiscriminately listing every person involved in the subject is ridiculous.
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This is an indiscriminate list of events of tenuous notability. None of the people listed here seem to be notable, and the disproportionate geographical coverage is problematic in terms of article balance.
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issues with respect to recently deceased people, as well as abuse of sources -- all of which is described above already. It might be possible to create a decent article but this is not it, and it needs
574:), but they are not deployed here. Also, as others have noted above, this is an extremely delicate topic (especially with regard to the risk - which is very real - of contagion through publicity (see
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towards
Singapore. It's even more pointless listing non notable cases unless you're going to include reported cases from all around the world not just Asia. Also potential WP:OR unless a
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Also, do we have consent from the appropriate person(s) to display the names of those they have post-death guardianship over on
Knowledge for their apparent suicide related death?
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Compiling a list of instances from primary sources that have not previously been listed together in reliable secondary sources is original research in my book. ā
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reliable sources discuss suicides attributed to academic pressure as a set. This they do, as witness M. T.Y. Lee, B. P. Wong, B. W.-Y. Chow, C. McBride-Chang,
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I understand the points you have raised and am especially grateful for you sourcing references to support the notion that academic pressures
679:. If this is deleted, Jfanderson68, know that an admin can always resurrect the content should the e.g. sources be useful down the road. ā
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perceived as an intrusion of privacy. Knowledge is not generally known to be a death registry and this list is in of itself exactly that.
776:- This is a good point that I wasn't really thinking too much about. Not that it really matters, but I changed weak delete ā delete. ā
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Students at breaking point: Hong Kong announces emergency measures after 22 suicides since the start of the academic year
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666:. The sources and the best-covered examples, however, would be useful seed material in an article along the lines of
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35/1 (2000): 71-89; Kangmin Zeng, Gerald K. Le Tendre, "Adolescent
Suicide and Academic Competition in East Asia",
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Predictors of
Suicide Ideation and Depression in Hong Kong Adolescents: Perceptions of Academic and Family Climates
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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that the subject is notable; there are probably are sufficient sources (e.g.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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List of suicides that have been attributed to academic pressures
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List of suicides that have been attributed to academic pressures
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Stress, self-esteem, and suicidal ideation in late adolescents
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Academic pressure pushes teens to suicide, say doctors
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801:Alot of unknowns, and not to mention an obvious
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851:42 (1998): 513-528; Sumit Bhattacharjee,
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