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that an undetermined number of people were killed there that day. Beyond her report, there's nothing on the killings in sources outside
Veritas (at least as of today). I agree with the above observation that it seems very implausible that there's so little published on killing of 55 civilians/pows in a village in a day, especially considering ICTY investigations of such killings in the area. Maybe it is just that no reliable sources made significant coverage of an actual event, but then it fails WP:GNG.
383:... grupa od dvdesetak civila sklonila se u podrum Rajka Stojičevića, među kojima su bile i meštanke 29-godišnja Mara Mioković i 14-godišnja Milica Vrljanović, koje su preživele ovaj masakr i po izlasku iz zarobljeništva, pred saradnicima Srpskog sabora, još u toku ratnih godina, ostavili pisana svedočanstva o zločinu u Mašićkoj Šagovini.
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examined but imo, it's not any more biased than
Croatian sources who might be inclined to suppress/ignore war crimes from their side. The information is based on first-hand eye witnesses, with their full names, and the Veritas and Politika reporting corroborate the Baltimore Sun report. Croatian sources speak of
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Crimes like this are widely covered, not only by media reports when they occur but also by humanitarian organizations, war crime tribunals, books, etc long after the fact. In contrast, this event is largely absent, except for a few sources during the conflict or from those denying it 20 years later.
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One massacre of the
Croatian war was reported by a Serb woman, Nevenka Despotovic from the village of Marsicka Sagovina near Nova Gradiska. Her foot was blown away by a hand-grenade thrown into the basement by Croat forces surrounding a home in which she and several others were hiding in a basement.
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There's no doubt that Štrbac is a biased source but at the same time, I don't believe he or
Veritas are in the business of engaging in hoaxes, but good-faith attempts to seek justice for civilians affected by war crimes. Serbian sources might be biased so I agree their reporting should be carefully
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Griboski for the cited passage. It would appear that the two articles cite the same person who's contradicting herself (some people killed by grenades thrown in and some survivors vs eveyone taken away and machine gunned) therefore not the most reliable source. At best, she is indicating
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and it is entirely plausible civilians were victims of crimes. Although, I agree it is strange that there isn't any more information about this beyond these sources. I also haven't been able to find any other sources discussing this. Having said that, I also disagree with the argument that because
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It seems plausible that something like what is described in the article happened, and it also seems plausible that a few people lied or embellished the truth to a few favorably inclined reporters and got them to publish something that sells well in their target market.
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I was able to access the
Baltimore Sun article. Doder and Louise Branson are both accomplished Western-based journalists and authors, so the credibility as far as reporting should be sufficient. The beginning of the article describes the
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Anyway, if nobody in the last thirty years went through the effort of verifying these claims, even including
Veritas who appear to just be collating '90s era sources, Knowledge is just not the place to make our readers do that.
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website, and other
Croatian websites, and there's just basically nothing, other than war stories from veterans. Usually there should be at least something, even if the information was being suppressed by interested parties.
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We shouldn't be parroting such serious claims until there's at least some verification. It doesn't actually do justice to the memory of any people unlawfully killed there to post arbitrary unverifiable stuff about it.
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So that person said that in May 1992 in a Red Cross in
Belgrade after being released from captivity. This was some sort of a prisoner exchange? How would this story be more reliable than any other story told by a
321:'s biography says he was in Belgrade in the 1990s, and let's just say that July 1992 in Belgrade was not a great time and place to get information about what's happening with Serbs in Croatia in December 1991. --
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Exactly, it's plausible, but it doesn't make sense that none of this ever reached even a humanitarian organization beyond
Veritas. I find it weird that the 2019 article from Veritas says:
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the Baltimore Sun link works just fine. It mentions a massacre in this village at the same time with most of the same details. So probably was a thing that happened.
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So there doesn't seem to be coherent independent confirmation for this narrative from conventionally reliable sources - I couldn't find it in the archive of the
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Na drugom kraju sela, po svedočenju meštanina Jovice Milosavljevića (25), datom po izlasku iz zarobljeništva u maju 1992. u Crvenom krstu u Beogradu, ...
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So this person is referencing "sources" - not necessarily saying someone specifically told them that, it could have just been that they read about it.
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something isn't widely covered, it means it didn't happen. A lot of war crimes go unreported or aren't publicized as much and remain unresolved. --
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Everyone else in the basement was machine-gunned to death as she watched. Those who surrendered, including her brother, were taken away and killed.
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bc unless you can find RS that elaborate on this topic, this is a made-up story, the kind of which is not uncommon in the post-war Balkans.
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Who are these "associates of Srpski sabor"? What is this organization? This is likewise said to be a written testimony from the war years.
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has a couple of stories about exhumations in 2013 and 2016 in the area, but makes no claims of massacres. I also checked the
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Tom prilikom su, prema srpskim izvorima, likvidirali najmanje 55 ljudi, među kojima 31 civila i pripadnika TO iz ovog sela.
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of Bosniaks, and other reported atrocities. The passage regarding this topic is as follows:
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This is just the level of useless contribution that had caused your earlier topic ban in
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website, and this place was only mentioned in seemingly unrelated witness transcripts.
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BTW in 2022, an anonymous user noted this in the military operation article -
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Thanks. Would be great if you could paste some of the exact phrasing used.
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which documents a lot of these kinds of killings. I searched the
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There is insufficient RS to confirm that it even happened.
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Can anyone else find anything, or do we delete this? --
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