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304:? Shouldn't they get to keep their own article also? The modern Greeks of Macedonia had no "Macedonian Greek" identity before the acquisition of Greek Macedonia, as many modern Greeks with Macedonian regional identity were Vlach, Albanian, or Pontic Greeks. In fact, if you consider population growth, non-indigenous peoples make up over 50% of the modern population in Greek Macedonia. I can provide data stating the Macedonians of the middle ages were speaking Slavic, not Greek and I can show data providing from the 1600s-today referring of Macedonians being the ancestors of the modern ethnic Macedonians (ie: Macedonians were referenced on an ethnic level). Even the Greek government wrote a book called "the Greek ANTI-Macedonian campaign" and "The contributions of the Slavic-like Macedonian on the Greek language" And Pavlos was stating their was a Macedonian language in the region of Macedonia. This is clearly a POV FORK, yesterday Greeks were arguing that Aegean Macedonians should not have their own article, today they turn into hypocrites. 372:. Of course we could conceivably have a legitimate article on this group of people, although (as I've often said) I cannot really imagine what it would contain that isn't already contained in the article on the region. Subnational administrative units and geographical regions don't normally get separate articles for themselves and for their inhabitants, because the coverage of those articles would be identical. (That such articles have been written for a few regions in Greece just goes to demonstrate why they are not a good idea: read those articles to see why. Those are not good models to follow. And it's done nowhere else; this format is a very strange predilection only of a few Greek editors.) But even if you want an article, I totally agree with Yannismarou that the present draft isn't it. It's too poorly written to serve even as a basis for a legitimate rewrite or expansion. Best to make it go away and have a clean slate. 420:, as a temporary measure until at least after the forthcoming Macedonia arbitration to avoid drama. The article as it is now does not conform to NPOV. However, this does not mean that the subject is not notable, since we're referring to approximately 4 million people (including the Macedonian diaspora with its associations, which incidentally are not called "Greek" but "Macedonian", meaning that the regional identity is especially strong). In any case, the article title should be in either 455:. Sure it must be enriched with a serious re-edit. There is no reason to delete the article solely for being of poor quality or because of timing concerns. We can make it an article about the obvious truths and put the redirect in a see also section. This will encourage other Knowledge users to enrich it. Since the subject of the article 218:
and his voice will bump on the wall of the LABEL. Anyway, if you think that something of my scripts or my acts in wikipedia is nationalistic, you can tell me about it, so I could comply with your rules of behavior. And especially for this article, if you find something nationalistic, you can explain
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About my nationalistic beliefs: It is an effective and useful LABEL to call someone "Natioanlist". It is a tested strategy to keep someone silent. In Middle Ages, they used to call someone Heretic in order to keep him silent or cancel his reliability. In modern times of freedom and republic, we just
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About the article, I would like to insist on its existance. I think we should focus on the indispensability of the article and NOT on the content. The content can change. Maybe I am not good in writing articles and maybe it has no scientific value. I am sure that wikipedia users are more experts in
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In any case, the existance of an article about a subgroup of the Greek nation CANNOT cause problems. The absence of it, on the other hand, cause a lot of problems to wikipedia, to the readers of wikipedia and warrant the nationalists (like me, as you say...) to edit articles of doubtful quality.
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Just to add that "AFD is not cleanup". And I believe, many of the above arguments are problematic as covered in the below policies. I present them for anyone to have some self-critique
151:). Since User:Pyraechmes who edited it insists on edit-warring, I thought that the best solution is to come here and confirm officially the long-time standing consensual solution: 143:. I don't know if this is the best solution, but I do know that this article as it stands now is a POVFORK of the aforementioned article with no scientific value, promoting the 132: 323:. Greeks from Macedonia possess a strong local identity and the subject is certainly notable enough. Similar articles exist for other local Greek identities, such as 331:, etc...I don't see why the Macedonian Greeks shouldn't have their own article. This is article could easily be part of the series on local Greek identities. -- 183: 147:
beliefs of User:Pyraechmes who does not like the redirecting, one-sided, and overlapping with not only the above article, but with others as well (such as
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such issues and can help in this direction. Only if we delete it or redirect it all the time we can achieve to have a "POVFORK".
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Is it nationalistic to write about your tribe or to forbid an article about a tribe? Chrusts 11:26, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
397:. There are many other article which have been designed to cater for this subject. Agree with the above users. 57: 35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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objection to the name, I suggest keep but remove all POV related text. Deleting would be contrary to
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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at this point. This needs to be revisited at calmer times and when the material is better. --
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The article in question has been for a long time consensually redirected to
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I don't see why Macedonian Greeks can't have an independent article.
279:- and possibly redirect if consensus for such exists, per Blanchardb. 628:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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notable both historically and demographically, and there is
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to me the reason, and we can delete it or re-write it.
127: 116: 112: 108: 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 638:). No further edits should be made to this page. 8: 184:list of Greece-related deletion discussions 178: 569:the article. I agree with Shadowmorph.-- 182:: This debate has been included in the 7: 300:(a subgroup) forced to be apart of 302:Slavic-speakers of Greek Macedonia 155:the article as it stands now, and 24: 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 1: 428:which are both redirected to 542:covers my own vote, I admit 655: 621:03:13, 19 April 2009 (UTC) 602:14:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC) 579:00:38, 17 April 2009 (UTC) 556:23:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC) 476:15:14, 16 April 2009 (UTC) 451:the article and make it a 442:03:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC) 407:13:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC) 380:10:17, 12 April 2009 (UTC) 359:06:45, 12 April 2009 (UTC) 341:04:17, 12 April 2009 (UTC) 314:00:04, 12 April 2009 (UTC) 289:18:36, 11 April 2009 (UTC) 272:11:29, 11 April 2009 (UTC) 247:11:22, 11 April 2009 (UTC) 199:10:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC) 173:10:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC) 69:05:18, 18 April 2009 (UTC) 519:one of the points made by 631:Please do not modify it. 32:Please do not modify it. 504:WP:No Original Research 368:, no objection against 508:about the opinions of 83:Macedonians (Greeks) 75:Macedonians (Greeks) 422:Macedonians (Greek) 430:Macedonia (Greece) 348:Delete or Redirect 298:Aegean Macedonians 294:Delete or Redirect 259:dispute resolution 161:Macedonia (Greece) 149:Macedonia (region) 141:Macedonia (Greece) 44:The result was 426:Greek Macedonians 269: 250: 233:comment added by 201: 187: 646: 633: 393:, WP;POVFORK of 268: 266: 249: 227: 188: 130: 124: 106: 65: 60: 55: 34: 654: 653: 649: 648: 647: 645: 644: 643: 642: 636:deletion review 629: 395:Greek Macedonia 262: 228: 126: 97: 81: 78: 63: 58: 53: 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 652: 650: 641: 640: 624: 623: 605: 604: 582: 581: 563: 562: 561: 560: 559: 558: 536: 524: 513: 497: 445: 444: 414:Blank the page 410: 409: 383: 382: 362: 361: 344: 343: 317: 316: 291: 274: 203: 202: 137: 136: 77: 72: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 651: 639: 637: 632: 626: 625: 622: 618: 614: 610: 607: 606: 603: 599: 595: 591: 590:User:Athenean 588:I agree with 587: 584: 583: 580: 576: 572: 568: 565: 564: 557: 553: 549: 546: 543: 540: 539:WP:EVERYTHING 537: 535: 534: 528: 525: 523: 520: 517: 514: 512: 511: 505: 501: 498: 496: 495: 491: 488:the votes of 485: 482: 481: 479: 478: 477: 473: 469: 466: 462: 458: 454: 450: 447: 446: 443: 439: 435: 431: 427: 423: 419: 415: 412: 411: 408: 404: 400: 396: 392: 388: 385: 384: 381: 378: 375: 371: 367: 364: 363: 360: 356: 352: 349: 346: 345: 342: 338: 334: 330: 326: 322: 319: 318: 315: 311: 307: 303: 299: 295: 292: 290: 286: 282: 278: 275: 273: 265: 260: 256: 255:Speedy close. 253: 252: 251: 248: 244: 240: 236: 232: 224: 220: 217: 213: 210:call someone 207: 200: 196: 192: 185: 181: 177: 176: 175: 174: 170: 166: 162: 158: 154: 150: 146: 145:nationalistic 142: 134: 129: 122: 118: 114: 110: 105: 101: 96: 92: 88: 84: 80: 79: 76: 73: 71: 70: 66: 61: 56: 51: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 630: 627: 608: 594:Sadbuttrue92 585: 566: 544: 541: 531:the vote of 530: 518: 507: 487: 484:WP:JUSTAVOTE 460: 456: 452: 448: 417: 413: 390: 386: 369: 365: 347: 320: 293: 276: 263: 254: 225: 221: 215: 211: 208: 204: 179: 156: 152: 144: 138: 46:no consensus 45: 43: 31: 28: 548:Shadowmorph 527:WP:DEADLINE 468:Shadowmorph 257:AfD is not 229:—Preceding 212:Nationalist 191:Yannismarou 165:Yannismarou 465:WP:Purpose 264:Blanchardb 235:Pyraechmes 522:Fut.Perf. 374:Fut.Perf. 613:Rirunmot 592:above.-- 571:Gkeorgke 510:Mactruth 418:Redirect 391:Redirect 366:Redirect 333:Athenean 325:Epirotes 306:Mactruth 270:- timed 243:contribs 231:unsigned 133:View log 516:WP:UGLY 494:Rlendog 329:Maniots 281:Rlendog 216:Fanatic 157:rediret 100:protect 95:history 50:King of 500:WP:POV 490:Jingby 387:Delete 370:delete 351:Jingby 159:it to 153:Delete 128:delete 104:delete 131:) – ( 121:views 113:watch 109:links 16:< 617:talk 609:Keep 598:talk 586:Keep 575:talk 567:Keep 552:talk 502:and 472:talk 453:Stub 449:Keep 438:talk 403:talk 399:PMK1 355:talk 337:talk 321:Keep 310:talk 285:talk 277:Keep 239:talk 195:talk 180:Note 169:talk 117:logs 91:talk 87:edit 533:Avg 434:Avg 424:or 416:or 389:or 214:or 619:) 600:) 577:) 554:) 545::) 529:, 506:, 492:, 486:, 474:) 461:no 457:is 440:) 405:) 357:) 339:) 327:, 312:) 287:) 245:) 241:• 197:) 186:. 171:) 163:. 119:| 115:| 111:| 107:| 102:| 98:| 93:| 89:| 67:♠ 48:. 615:( 596:( 573:( 550:( 470:( 436:( 401:( 377:☼ 353:( 335:( 308:( 283:( 267:- 237:( 193:( 189:— 167:( 135:) 125:( 123:) 85:( 64:♣ 59:♦ 54:♥

Index

Knowledge:Articles for deletion
deletion review
King of



05:18, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Macedonians (Greeks)
Macedonians (Greeks)
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
delete
View log
Macedonia (Greece)
Macedonia (region)
Macedonia (Greece)
Yannismarou
talk
10:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
list of Greece-related deletion discussions
Yannismarou
talk
10:45, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

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