369:* A lot of people have met with and experienced the machine elves, the fenomen is not at all exclusive to Terrence McKeena. It is just that his interpretation of them has been heard the most, and that he named them. Albert Strauss (i think his name was?) also discuss them, and probably a lot of the myths and tales about shamans meeting with Gods, ancestors and spirits have their roots in the "machine elf-experience". (All of this is already mentioned in the machine elf-article. It is easy to just copy all of it to the DMT article.)
535:
What exactly are you going to be able to write about it? "People on drugs see hallucinations. Sometimes the hallucinations are elfs or trolls or clowns or dwarfs or giants or talking dogs or talking trees or talking elephants or talking chairs or talking carpets or melting walls." Psychonauts claim
205:
The hallucination of "machine elves" is no more notable than "the walls are melting" or "hey, that dog is talking to me". That this type of hallucination has any more meaning than melting walls or talking animals is an ultra fringe theory by a psychonaut that has far less coverage than the melting
521:, for example. As this source indicates that the creatures are variously described as elves, dwarves, imps, gremlins, spirits, &c. the current title may not be the best. We should not merge into McKenna who just seems to be one of many people who have written about this.
565:(who mostly don't talk) or talking trees (who can't) but, as you say, "actual other dimensional beings" (not just hallucinatory furniture). McK made the putative encounters notable regardless of whether or not they actually transpired, (since he claims they have).—
606:. As far as I can tell, the phenomenon is discussed only in relation to that drug, although by more than one author (most of whom cite McKenna though). Some of the excessively lengthy quotes should be trimmed though.
174:
243:
127:
223:
168:
585:
It's a notable phenomenon written about by various authors. No reason to merge into any article; has enough sources and notability to stand as its own article.
363:
is a very reoccurring fenomen for the DMT-drug. Omitting the machine elves from the DMT-article is like failing to mention the fractals in the LSD-article.
386:
That's cool, as long as all those people don't get their machine elves to participate in this AfD. That would be meat... uh... some kind of puppetry...—
611:
134:
607:
287:
the title had been redirected there, (and to
Terence McKenna) but the article was edit warred back into existence, hence we are here. --
17:
314:
is a good summary of the present machine elf article, but is more appropriate in the article on McKenna than the article on DMT.
100:
95:
439:
391:
341:
104:
189:
156:
87:
656:
40:
566:
467:
537:
526:
435:
403:
387:
337:
288:
207:
310:. "Machine elf" isn't notable enough outside of McKenna's writings to be an independent article. The content in
497:
150:
275:
652:
590:
146:
36:
637:
615:
594:
571:
545:
530:
503:
472:
443:
427:
411:
395:
380:
345:
323:
296:
279:
255:
235:
215:
69:
522:
423:
376:
536:
without any proof, validation or reproducability, that they are actual other dimensional beings".--
354:) of all the text in the entire Machine elf-articles into the DMT-article. My primary arguments are:
493:
319:
196:
182:
482:
625:
603:
311:
271:
267:
51:
517:
418:
We masked our presence as an alien invasion, as to not alarm you guys what is really going on.
633:
251:
231:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
651:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
463:
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
586:
91:
419:
372:
307:
58:
162:
333:
315:
629:
247:
227:
121:
83:
75:
62:
485:
to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
365:(I just noticed that fractals are not even mentioned in the LSD article!!)
645:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
561:: Well it's not just any drug, and it's not talking animals
244:
list of
Behavioural science-related deletion discussions
117:
113:
109:
181:
434:
I, for one, welcome our new machine elf overlords.—
492:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
195:
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
659:). No further edits should be made to this page.
224:list of Medicine-related deletion discussions
8:
242:Note: This debate has been included in the
222:Note: This debate has been included in the
241:
221:
628:rather than to one researcher's article.
206:walls and talking dog hallucinations. --
515:The phenomenon is clearly notable - see
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
24:
608:Someone not using his real name
1:
616:07:20, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
595:17:46, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
572:18:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
546:18:16, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
531:17:46, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
504:11:42, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
473:17:17, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
444:03:48, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
428:03:00, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
412:15:58, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
396:15:37, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
381:14:50, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
346:04:41, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
324:04:32, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
297:18:46, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
280:16:19, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
270:, where they're mentioned. --
256:02:58, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
236:02:58, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
350:I vote for a complete copy (
216:17:50, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
676:
638:20:48, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
70:22:10, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
648:Please do not modify it.
266:At minimum, redirect to
32:Please do not modify it.
541:aka The Red Pen of Doom
407:aka The Red Pen of Doom
292:aka The Red Pen of Doom
211:aka The Red Pen of Doom
361:machine elf-experience
466:... recuse myselves.—
436:alf laylah wa laylah
388:alf laylah wa laylah
338:alf laylah wa laylah
626:Dimethyltryptamine
604:dimethyltryptamine
312:Dimethyltryptamine
268:Dimethyltryptamine
52:dimethyltryptamine
48:The result was
542:
506:
446:
430:
414:
408:
402:elf-puppetry. --
398:
293:
258:
238:
212:
68:
667:
650:
569:
543:
540:
518:Mysterious Minds
500:
491:
487:
470:
433:
417:
409:
406:
401:
385:
294:
291:
213:
210:
200:
199:
185:
137:
125:
107:
67:
65:
34:
675:
674:
670:
669:
668:
666:
665:
664:
663:
657:deletion review
646:
567:
538:
513:Keep/move/merge
502:
498:
480:
468:
404:
308:Terence McKenna
289:
208:
142:
133:
98:
82:
79:
63:
59:Terence McKenna
41:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
673:
671:
662:
661:
641:
640:
618:
597:
579:
578:
577:
576:
575:
574:
551:
550:
549:
548:
509:
508:
507:
496:
494:The Bushranger
489:
488:
477:
476:
475:
456:
455:
454:
453:
452:
451:
450:
449:
448:
447:
370:
367:
356:
355:
348:
326:
301:
300:
299:
260:
259:
239:
203:
202:
139:
78:
73:
46:
45:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
672:
660:
658:
654:
649:
643:
642:
639:
635:
631:
627:
623:
619:
617:
613:
609:
605:
601:
598:
596:
592:
588:
584:
581:
580:
573:
570:
564:
560:
557:
556:
555:
554:
553:
552:
547:
544:
534:
533:
532:
528:
524:
520:
519:
514:
511:
510:
505:
501:
499:One ping only
495:
490:
486:
484:
479:
478:
474:
471:
465:
461:
458:
457:
445:
441:
437:
432:
431:
429:
425:
421:
416:
415:
413:
410:
400:
399:
397:
393:
389:
384:
383:
382:
378:
374:
371:
368:
366:
362:
358:
357:
353:
349:
347:
343:
339:
335:
331:
327:
325:
321:
317:
313:
309:
305:
302:
298:
295:
286:
283:
282:
281:
277:
273:
272:Colapeninsula
269:
265:
262:
261:
257:
253:
249:
245:
240:
237:
233:
229:
225:
220:
219:
218:
217:
214:
198:
194:
191:
188:
184:
180:
176:
173:
170:
167:
164:
161:
158:
155:
152:
148:
145:
144:Find sources:
140:
136:
132:
129:
123:
119:
115:
111:
106:
102:
97:
93:
89:
85:
81:
80:
77:
74:
72:
71:
66:
61:
60:
54:
53:
44:
42:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
647:
644:
621:
599:
582:
568:Machine Elf
562:
558:
516:
512:
481:
469:Machine Elf
464:wp:snowshoes
462:I, ah ahhhh
459:
364:
360:
351:
329:
303:
284:
263:
204:
192:
186:
178:
171:
165:
159:
153:
143:
130:
56:
49:
47:
31:
28:
587:Ithinkicahn
169:free images
84:Machine elf
76:Machine elf
420:KaosMuppet
373:KaosMuppet
653:talk page
334:Plantdrew
316:Plantdrew
248:• Gene93k
228:• Gene93k
50:merge to
37:talk page
655:or in a
483:Relisted
128:View log
39:or in a
630:Bearian
559:Comment
460:Comment
285:comment
264:Comment
175:WP refs
163:scholar
101:protect
96:history
57:and/or
563:per se
539:TRPoD
523:Andrew
405:TRPoD
359:* The
290:TRPoD
209:TRPoD
147:Google
105:delete
622:merge
600:Merge
352:merge
330:Merge
328:Yep,
306:with
304:Merge
190:JSTOR
151:books
135:Stats
122:views
114:watch
110:links
64:slakr
16:<
634:talk
620:I'd
612:talk
591:talk
583:Keep
527:talk
440:talk
424:talk
392:talk
377:talk
342:talk
332:per
320:talk
276:talk
252:talk
232:talk
183:FENS
157:news
118:logs
92:talk
88:edit
624:to
602:to
336:.—
197:TWL
126:– (
636:)
614:)
593:)
529:)
442:)
426:)
394:)
379:)
344:)
322:)
278:)
254:)
246:.
234:)
226:.
177:)
120:|
116:|
112:|
108:|
103:|
99:|
94:|
90:|
55:.
632:(
610:(
589:(
525:(
438:(
422:(
390:(
375:(
340:(
318:(
274:(
250:(
230:(
201:)
193:·
187:·
179:·
172:·
166:·
160:·
154:·
149:(
141:(
138:)
131:·
124:)
86:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.