608:: There is a world of difference between mentioning Rose and citing him as a reliable source. There is a widespread consensus that we avoid these Raj "ethnographers", who were actually gentleman-scholars documenting things as a sideline to their main functions as civil servants of the British Raj. Using books written a hundred years ago as sources is almost never a good idea in Knowledge (XXG) articles. However, modern scholars often use antique texts as primary sources, which is quite acceptable, and these modern works can then be used as secondary sources. So for example, modern scholars on Rome may base their conclusions partly on the accounts of Tacitus, Caesar, Suetonius, and other ancient writers, but we should not use those accounts as sources for articles about ancient Rome. These were professional soldiers/politicians/civil servants first and amateur ethnographers second. Their purpose was political and not scientific, they swallowed a lot of now-discredited racial theories, they were very selective in who they listened to, and they had a habit of largely unquestioningly accepting what these not-disinterested reporters told them.
813:) doesn't have a mention of Makhdoom in the article at all. What this tells me is that there is a bigger issue than just this article, and that some decisions need to be made about how to handle this particular honorific in WP. A good place to do that would be on the talk page of this page. Next, this page does not explain clearly what Makhdoom means, how it is confered, etc. At one point it refers to "Makhdoom families" and another "Makhdoom persons" which is very confusing. Once some order is brought to this, the list of people with the title could become a category, since lists themselves make boring reading, and since the article titles most likely will often not have the honorific, as per WP style. So I say
362:. Also for a standalone article, if a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, only then it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list. This topic does not and the one source you stated does not cover the topic at all. The articles fails the most basic criteria for the article to exist. It is clearly not a notable topic. It is primarily based on
326:(in this or other transliterations) has an implication of religious wisdom or authority which it is useful for readers to understand. Having said that, however, while significant or useful but unsourced information on many (but not all) topics can be allowed to survive on Knowledge (XXG) until it is challenged and reliable sources are asked for - once reliable sources
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is the only suitable source I have found in an admittedly short and cursory search, and by itself, it falls quite a long way short of justifying a standalone article - there quite likely are other more detailed sources, but if so, I can't find them among those that simply use the word as a title or
451:. For the sake of consistency, a group of South Asians sharing common or similar descent and bearing the same title - which likely includes a higher number of people than both of the aforementioned two examples combined - is certainly notable. The article is just bad and needs a lot of work.
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The
Routledge source isn't fake. Check it again. I also find it quite odd that a simple AfD discussion results in such absolute rudeness and uncivil behavior, in addition to such grasping at straws to discredit the arguments of others instead of simply stating a point and moving on.
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Essays hold no weight in discussions like this where an article is not meeting a single
Knowledge (XXG) policy to exist. So you cannot defend your article by referring to an essay i.e. wp:signifiance. The article has NO REFERENCE AT ALL and it cannot stand per
322:. I do not see any promotionalism or attempt to generate publicity in the article. And from what I have seen when reading articles relating to Islam in southern Asia, the topic does indeed have some significance - when applied to a person or family, the word
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This one seems like a no brainer: it's a common title among South Asian
Muslims that is carried down through descent or nobility lines. The top half of the article is poorly written and in dire need of sourcing, but regardless it most certainly passed
478:, in which the entries must have the same importance to the subject as would be required for the entry to be included in the text of the article according to Knowledge (XXG) policies and guidelines and this topic "Makhdoom" violates
233:. Note that sourcing is not absolutely required for an article to stand. Claims of "generating publicity" and WP:PROMO do not seem to have substance when checking the article text - unsure why the nominator has inserted them here.
809:. It does seem that pages that explain honorifics are acceptable. Next, I looked up some of the people on the list in this article, and some have "Makhdoom" in their article title but others do not, and at least one (
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594:: Only talks about a feudal lord belonging to a clan not even Makhdoom clan and not title Makhdoom. Book on social pollution with no connection to the article whatsoever. Irrelevant.
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family name without explanation. And, by previous experience, those sources probably need to be found and mentioned here in order to get a consensus for the article to survive.
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299:. Information on Knowledge (XXG) must be verifiable; if no reliable third-party sources can be found on a topic, then it should not have a separate article.
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You misread or purportedly manipulate the text of the policies and any experienced user can attest to it. Until you use direct quotations, I refuse to
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A cursory glance on Google Books for about three minutes yielded explanations sourcing the existence and descent of the clan from a
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615:: Only mentions a name Quraishi Makhdum Ghulam. who is he and what has this mention got to do with Makhdum or its notability.
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IS determined by the notability criteria i.e. inclusion in lists contained within articles should be determined by
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First, since WP generally shuns honorifics, I checked to see what had been done with other religious titles, like
490:, intellectually independent of each other and "Makhdoom" has none such sources because it is not notable enough.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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but put an effort into making this something that is consistently treated and easily found.
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Existence and notability are two separate tings. About your forceful research above:
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as well as articles about loose bands of people sharing similar descent such as the
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Are you then arguing that those names should not be on
Knowledge (XXG)? BTW, the
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as it is an entirely unsourced article. Not a single reference exists failing
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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what you are referring to is merely an essay and essays are not
354:: The article does not have a single reliable source violating
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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apart from violating other
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Good one when you have nothing to defend yourself with.
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Kashmiri, you dont even know the difference between
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670:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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358:and the list of names proves the promotional part
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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273:in the meaning of Knowledge (XXG) policies, see
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601:: Fake. No mention of Makhdoom anywhere.
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620:Drag it all you want. It fails
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199:Non-notable article. Fails
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