1114:- The end result of merge/redirect will be information will be lost and deleted. Proof, I added parts (not the whole article) into Barack Obama and it was removed in seconds. Therefore, we MUST keep Malia Obama or some information will be lost. For those who like censorship, merge/redirect can be a ploy to get rid of information they don't like. That's not accusing all merge/redirect supporters of censorship, just that this is the end result. So KEEP and improve.
1907:. I particularly point out the section titled "Political positions of Malia Obama", the nine year old child. Further, even after the ridiculous excesses regarding Hannah Montana, Paris Hilton, asthma, etc, are removed, I believe this article should be deleted, as the subject has absolutely no notability beyond being the young child of a candidate in an election. I don't object to returning to a redirect to her father as had been there untouched until today
301:. You know very well that there is a huge difference between Michelle Obama who actively campaigns around the coutry and regularly appears in the media and her daughter Malia who is out of the public eye. Do not, as you did, add AfD templates that point back here to articles unrelated to this discussion simply because you don't like the way this discussion is going. --
1660:; if someone is looking for an article on this, it's important to have the redirect, which points them to all the information we have on the subject which would be in her father's article. Otherwise, she's just not notable in and of herself. Perhaps if Obama becomes president, she'll have enough notability, but today it's just tabloid news.--
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to her father. She is nine. She can't even be anywhere without her parents. Most of the other children of politicans mentioned are at the age of majority and have done things on their own in life. Frankly, it would be better if she didn't have an article; nothing really good can come from it and
1845:
per nom. Media coverage of Malia herself has been minimal; she is only notable in relation to her father and substantially all the coverage of her opinions, etc. has come not directly from her, but from interviews with her parents. The article does not even report the sourced information correctly.
378:
I'd support a redirect to her father's article as well though. Just being the daughter of a notable person doesn't necessarily make you notable yourself. Also this article is so full of fluff (she Likes Hannah
Montana and Beyonce, and won't stay at a Hilton to protest Paris Hilton?) I could stuff a
2054:
You should try to call what you disagree with as disruption. We should treat all kids equally, Black and White. I don't want to change
Knowledge rules, just that we should delete all kids or none of the kids. The kids listed are equally famous or not famous. Those that are much more famous are
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Then nominate those articles for deletion individually, but leave it out of this process. They have nothing to do with this article or this discussion. Adding AFD tags to those articles that point back here is simply being disruptive. Accept that there is no support or consensus for keeping this
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I've thought of it and wife Obama qualifies as an article. However, the other kids of politicians equally qualify or disqualify. So, like Grz, I am adding the names of the kids, but not
Michelle Obama. Wade Edwards does not deserve special inclusion because he is dead because we routinely delete
1976:
You have misread my comments. People notable only for a single event, i.e. the identity of their father, should not have their own articles, they should be mentioned in their father's article only. The policy makes no age distinction but I do. Minors deserve greater protection and privacy than is
1961:
Thank you DrKiernan for your seemingly wise advice. Your advice is incorrect. Your reference link makes no distinction of age. IF Knowledge policy states "Articles about children are prohibited" then I will abide by such rule. However, there is NO SUCH rule. All of the politician's children
1911:
for anyone who might come here and search on her name, although I think it is not particularly necessary to have even a redirect. (2)The second article is nothing more than a copy of what the editor wanted in the first article, and was set up as a conglomeration of several other articles about
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Becuase all that is being report is that she likes
Beyonce and doesn't like Paris Hilton. There's no other notability there, all the articles written supposedly about her are just fluff pieces about the campaign. Where does she have any other notability other than the fact her dad may be the
847:(E/C) I think you misunderstand my meaning. I'm not arguing that the Enquirer is trivial. Rather, I'm saying the coverage was trivial. I.e., it was not an in-depth article about her. It seems like each article has a few lines about her, which is the definition of trivial coverage. Best, --
1326:
Try putting any of Malia's info in the Barack article and it will be deleted pronto. Malia is a kid, I know. Abuse her and attack her in an article, no. But famous children do have articles. Think it's trivial, improve it. There are so many google references, some with good information.
1850:
But the incident took place in 2005, not 2004; she didn't "publicly question" her father but rather was overheard by a television camera crew while talking to her father; and she didn't ask "why he was not running for vice-president". What the source actually says is:
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inherited, and as any coverage of Malia is currently only as a result of the coverage of her father, there is no assertion of notability. Should significant coverage of Malia be found in the future, there is no prejudice against recreating a suitable article. --
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For the purposes of wikipedia, she is no more notable than Barack Obama's coffee mug which is also frequently mentioned by reliable sources. She is a biographical detail in his life, not a notable figure on her own. I would also support the redirect option.
538:. If Malia's father becomes President, there will probably be enough fluff pieces focusing specifically on her in reliable sources to justify an article, but right now she's just a 9-year-old girl. Give her a few more months of privacy at least, per
1065:
This child is not notable in her own right. The sources are all, essentially, trivial mentions of her - they're really talking about her Dad. After deletion, a redirect is fine. ETA: and it's a coatrack - check the state of the article after
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that's been nominated with it. (And before any accusations are hurled, I want to point out that I'm running as an Obama supporter for delegate to the 2008 Democratic
National Convention. I like her daddy; but she's non-notable, period.)
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Just being related to somebody famous, no matter how closely, does not make one notable. Unless and until she does something important on her own other than include half of a
Presidential candidate's DNA, she doesn't get an article. โ
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9. Also note that there is no minimum age that people must be for them to be included in
Knowledge. You don't have to be an adult to have a Knowledge article. We are not showing a naked Malia or revealing her social security number.
1541:. Unless this particular 9 year old girl does something outrageous/outstanding/outspoken to warrant her own article. No evidence of this happening. Delete. As far as "search terms" go, I would be against a redirect also, as it is
1225:
Why would her being a fan of Hannah
Montana be mentioned in her father's article? Even if there were enough non-trivial coverage about Malia to create an article about her, I doubt her liking Hannah Montana would be included.
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articles written about 9/11 victims. What I am doing is not making a point but developing specific criteria. So everyone get's treated the same, black and white, boy and girl, same articles kept, same article deleted.
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and as such has been mentioned trivially in reliable sources and the mentions have always been made in connection with her very notable father. Since mentions of her in these reliable sources has been trivial
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People magazine is not trivial, unlike the
National Enquirer. Also featured in major newspapers and national newspapers, like USA Today and the New York Times. Why not help write it, not criticize it?
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Any admin who hasn't contributed could do so. I'd be happy to see that. Certainly the disruption from
Watchingobama needs to stop. On the other hand, the discussion hasn't been running for that long.
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8. Others have added information, templates, infoboxes, references, not just me. Malia is not an obscure school or rock band, she is one of the few senator's daughters that is featured in the news.
1386:
See Cate Edwards AFD. Same facts. Some claim she is not notable and wanted the article deleted. It stayed. Fight race discrimination. If you keep Cate Edwards, you must keep Malia Obama.
1454:
Nonsense indeed. There's a significant difference between a 26-year-old woman who has actively campaigned for her father and a 9-year-old girl who is presumably focused on spelling tests. โ
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Also adding children of candidates and a grandson. Cate Edwards, Wade Edwards, David Eisenhower, Vanessa Kerry. Michelle Obama added but may be re-created after she becomes First Lady.
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to the article on her father. He's of course plenty notable. There's not that much to be said about her at this point though, and what there is is directly related to their relationship.
1498:. Completely and utterly devoid of any notability, save for being the daughter of a presidential candidate. Since notability is not contagious, I've half a mind to just speedy this as
509:
What current or former President is she related to? Even if she was, you'd have to point out those previous discussions, since I can find no policy or guideline that states this. โ
907:. Not only lack of notability, but also I think it's not really appropriate to target a 9-year-old child with an article. Maybe an article if she becomes a White House resident (
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1853:"Are you going to try to be president?" Malia Obama asked her father, giggling as a television camera captured the moment. "Shouldn't you be the vice president first?"
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the second to remove two references for an unbelievably trivial comment Barack made about his daughter not wanting to patronize Hilton hotels because of Paris Hilton,
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listed in this AFD are equally notable/non-notable. Note that I did not include John Kerry's other daughter as she is a filmmaker who made a famous film.
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Notability is not inherited. Just because pops is famous does not make her so. Hannah Montana notwithstanding. I'd say redirect to Barack Obama. Mahalo. --
1208:
What information, the fact she likes Hannah Montana? Again everything in this article is trivial and can be mentioned in the article about her father.
778:, all the references to her are pretty much trivial. Probably will get more notice if Obama wins the nomination or presidency, but not notable now. --
1699:. Somebody apparently noticed there was no page on young Miss Obama and decided to inflate the "Articles I Have Created" portion of their user page.
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requires significant coverage of the individual. The coverage of Malia, as has been brought up in the discussion, has been trivial. Also, as per
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In 2004, Malia publicly questioned her father as to why he was not running for vice-president. "Shouldn't you be the vice president first?"
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Why would it go in any article? It's important to no one besides Miss Obama herself (and Miley Cyrus's accountant, to a small extent). โ
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Will try, but guaranteed it will be deleted. Article is too long (Mr. Obama) so Malia stuff is guaranteed to be removed. I'll quote you.
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1430:. Note: I am not making a comment on the suitability of the other article, just pointing out that it has nothing to do with this AfD.
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unlikely that some reader, looking for info on Barack, actually types the name of a 9 year old girl instead. Delete, no redirect.
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4. Notable information such as opposition to Hilton Corp. This is not just a stub saying "Malia is daughter of Barack, end of stub"
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That's my point actually, there's nothing here for an article, and yeah I know that HM stuff wouldn't go into her dad's article.
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3. Several sources/article about the kid, not the father. These appeared in USA Today, People, New York Daily News, etc.
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2. Many, many other articles of presidential candidates' kids like Wade Edwards, Cate Edwards, Barbara Bush (daughter).
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there are probably a number of good wikipedians who will want to have a voice here. It's worth running the full time.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Sweet mother of pearl, man.. I have not blanked anything. I've made three edits on the article. The first to
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1. notable very, very close relative of one of the most written about politicians in the U.S. today.
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article and move on. If you want to continue your crusade in separate discussions, have at it. --
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5. Bobblehead, Tvoz, and Scjessey have been blanking out so they should be counted as one vote.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Merely being the daughter of a famous politician does not give one sufficient notability. --
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the child of a politician since neither of his parents actually sought elective office. --
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Not applicable. Mother gave interview and revealed info. So no privacy concerns exists.
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NOT listed! I can go along with all the kids deleted or none of the kids deleted.
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individuals who do have some notability on their own, apparently set up to make a
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the only thing notable is her father. She can be covered on his page. Redirect
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1502:(non-notable biography), but maybe it's worth letting this farce play out. โ
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Knowledge:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#Notability is inherited
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Presidential relatives are the exception. See many previous discussions.
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There is no minimum age to have a Knowledge article written about you.
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Malia Obama is the 9-year-old daughter of U.S. presidential candidate
1091:. Not notable in own right. The article is simply minor trivia. --
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The majority of comments at this AfD have been made in relation to
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per Wildthing61476 and Ali'i. I'd be OK with a redirect to Barack.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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already to be adding trivial new ones about 9-year-old children.
1759:, as suggested above by Tnxman307. We have enough problems with
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6. Cate Edwards is not Crap so WP:othercrapexist does not apply.
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Okay, now you're just disrupting Knowledge in order to make a
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Being related to someone notable doesn't make you notable
1070:- that's after the author and before anyone else edited.
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for notability and the primary argument seems to be that
1581:. Could become notable in future as a first daughter. --
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2000:- can't we close this (with immediate delete) per
1800:for all the reasons above. Give the kid a break!
50:Knowledge:Notability#General notability guideline
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
2181:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1938:official policy on biographies of living people
1720:(wonder where Camp David's name came from) and
1716:seperately. Some are undoubtedly notable, like
752:and the third edit to tag this article for AFD.
608:โ above !vote was cast before the creation of
542:. Oh, sorry โ that guideline doesn't exist. โ
2069:Except Malia is 9 (a child)...the others are
8:
1886:that will be a serious article to watch. --
755:As for the rest, see Grsz11's response. --
2142:- this non-notable bio, and the end-run
187:This is the result of a challenged prod.
1154:You guessed it: Knowledge infact, is a
1855:There's no real substance here. Also,
1724:, though I'm not sure about the rest.
1597:quite sufficient notability already.
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1862:entirely as it is just a big mess.
833:Democratic nominee for president?
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2162:(4th Wis. Congressional District)
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1916:, not because it was valid.
1860:Children of American Politicians
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225:Children of American Politicians
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142:Children of American Politicians
441:. Notability is not inherited.
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
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1761:biographies of living persons
991:to Josiah about that.ย ;-) --
936:there no essay on that...?)-
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1843:Barack Obama#Personal life
1757:Barack Obama#Personal life
1693:Redirect, without merging,
1428:Knowledge:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS
1306:Barack Obama#Personal life
1156:vast right-wing conspiracy
439:Barack Obama#Personal life
1308:, as suggested above. --
358:- non-notable, for sure.
2174:Please do not modify it.
32:Please do not modify it.
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704:. 1. No she's not, 2.
2115:Note to closing admin
1901:Strong delete of both
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710:Trivial coverage
676:
624:
578:
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409:
379:pillow with it.
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277:
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183:
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56:, notability is
44:The result was
34:
2197:
2196:
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2179:deletion review
2172:
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2123:
2076:
2030:
2014:
2008:
2006:
1637:
1559:
1553:
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1384:NEW INFORMATION
1280:
1192:
1186:
1184:
1161:
1072:
913:Chelsea Clinton
891:
885:
883:
854:
849:
785:
780:
743:
737:
719:
397:I can fix that
361:
282:for context. -
230:
156:
140:
128:
99:
83:
80:
37:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
2195:
2193:
2184:
2183:
2166:
2164:
2163:
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2111:
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2092:
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1994:
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1953:
1952:
1931:
1898:
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1872:Metropolitan90
1829:
1812:
1794:
1793:
1781:separately. -
1779:other articles
1773:
1764:
1741:
1740:
1722:Michelle Obama
1711:
1690:
1672:
1651:
1631:Delete for now
1628:
1611:
1592:
1568:
1536:
1516:
1504:Ilmari Karonen
1493:
1475:
1474:
1473:
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1449:
1418:
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1385:
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1365:Speedy Delete:
1361:
1360:
1359:
1358:
1321:
1320:
1299:
1286:
1273:
1272:
1271:
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1269:
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1240:Wildthing61476
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835:Wildthing61476
793:
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381:Wildthing61476
373:
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275:
203:basic criteria
185:
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42:
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25:
23:
15:
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13:
10:
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6:
4:
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2:
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2057:Watchingobama
2053:
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2017:
2011:
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1824:
1820:
1816:
1815:Strong Delete
1813:
1811:
1807:
1803:
1799:
1798:Strong delete
1796:
1795:
1792:
1788:
1784:
1780:
1776:
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1401:Watchingobama
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1129:Watchingobama
1125:
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1116:Watchingobama
1113:
1112:Breaking news
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1098:
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1089:Speedy delete
1087:
1085:
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1069:
1064:
1061:
1060:
1053:
1049:
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1040:Watchingobama
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1027:Watchingobama
1024:
1023:
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969:Watchingobama
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918:
917:Wasted Time R
914:
910:
906:
903:
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894:
888:
880:
879:Speedy Delete
877:
875:
872:
868:
867:
860:
857:
852:
846:
844:
840:
836:
831:
830:
827:
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814:Watchingobama
810:
806:
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801:Watchingobama
797:
796:
795:
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791:
788:
783:
777:
776:Meghan McCain
773:
771:
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679:Watchingobama
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666:Watchingobama
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581:Watchingobama
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568:Watchingobama
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412:Watchingobama
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377:
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356:Speedy Delete
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334:
329:
328:
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318:Watchingobama
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90:
86:
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78:
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72:
68:
64:
59:
55:
51:
47:
46:Speedy Delete
40:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
2173:
2170:
2165:
2139:
2114:
2095:
2081:
2074:
2070:
2025:
1997:
1958:
1933:
1900:
1882:
1867:
1856:
1852:
1847:
1838:
1831:
1814:
1797:
1774:
1765:
1752:
1744:
1713:
1697:Barack Obama
1692:
1680:
1679:
1674:
1657:
1653:
1630:
1613:
1598:
1594:
1579:Barack Obama
1574:
1570:
1542:
1538:
1526:
1525:
1522:
1518:
1495:
1478:
1451:
1423:
1364:
1301:
1283:
1276:
1254:
1235:
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1205:
1175:
1166:
1159:
1151:
1111:
1088:
1062:
1004:
933:
929:
904:
878:
850:
781:
769:
768:
733:
724:
717:
701:
642:
617:
605:
535:Barack Obama
533:Redirect to
532:
528:
506:
434:
375:
366:
359:
355:
235:
228:
223:I am adding
194:Barack Obama
186:
57:
45:
43:
31:
28:
2150:Orange Mike
2119:Malia Obama
1835:Malia Obama
1749:Malia Obama
1635:FisherQueen
1456:Josiah Rowe
1411:) has made
1370:Loonymonkey
1352:) has made
1139:) has made
1050:) has made
989:my comments
979:) has made
938:PetraSchelm
824:) has made
772:delete both
689:) has made
643:Strong keep
622:Josiah Rowe
620:that too. โ
614:Malia Obama
591:) has made
544:Josiah Rowe
484:) has made
422:) has made
333:Loonymonkey
303:Loonymonkey
269:) has made
85:Malia Obama
77:Malia Obama
1909:since 2005
1905:(see here)
1888:Ricky81682
1819:Ecoleetage
1802:Bellagio99
1701:Pop Secret
1662:Prosfilaes
1561:Disclaimer
1228:Bobblehead
909:Amy Carter
757:Bobblehead
215:Bobblehead
1979:DrKiernan
1942:DrKiernan
1837:and then
1527:Gtstricky
1182:, right?
1068:this diff
494:Tnxman307
443:Tnxman307
2126:HEFFIELD
2033:HEFFIELD
1883:Redirect
1839:redirect
1753:redirect
1658:redirect
1644:contribs
1583:Dhartung
1575:redirect
1465:contribs
1409:contribs
1350:contribs
1310:Scjessey
1302:Redirect
1285:Dendodge
1137:contribs
1101:contribs
1093:jbmurray
1075:HEFFIELD
1048:contribs
1005:redirect
977:contribs
822:contribs
687:contribs
631:contribs
589:contribs
553:contribs
482:contribs
435:Redirect
420:contribs
267:contribs
135:View log
2144:WP:FORK
2026:Comment
2002:WP:SNOW
1998:Comment
1614:Delete.
1483:ElKevbo
1452:Comment
1424:Comment
1277:Delete:
1255:Comment
1236:Comment
1223:Comment
1206:Comment
1180:sarcasm
1178:That's
1176:Comment
1152:Comment
1009:JoshuaZ
774:Unlike
734:Comment
702:Comment
507:Comment
492:Where?
159:protect
154:history
102:protect
97:history
2140:Delete
2071:adults
2009:Frank
1934:Delete
1875:(talk)
1857:delete
1832:Delete
1775:Relist
1766:Delete
1745:Delete
1726:Editor
1714:Relist
1654:Delete
1619:Gwalla
1571:Delete
1548:Keeper
1543:highly
1539:Delete
1519:Delete
1500:CSD A7
1496:Delete
1479:Delete
1435:Frank
1281:......
1259:Gwalla
1187:Frank
1063:Delete
930:Delete
905:Delete
886:Frank
855:figura
786:figura
714:WP:AGF
618:Delete
616:AfD.
529:Delete
511:Gwalla
376:Delete
199:WP:BIO
163:delete
130:delete
106:delete
2015:talk
1914:point
1681:Aleta
1441:talk
1193:talk
993:Ali'i
892:talk
871:Ali'i
708:, 3.
437:- to
299:point
280:diff.
180:views
172:watch
168:links
133:) โ (
123:views
115:watch
111:links
16:<
2156:Talk
2130:TEEL
2102:talk
2077:Grsz
2061:talk
2037:TEEL
1983:talk
1968:talk
1946:talk
1936:per
1925:talk
1919:Tvoz
1892:talk
1823:talk
1806:talk
1787:talk
1777:the
1735:wiki
1705:talk
1666:talk
1656:and
1640:talk
1623:Talk
1605:talk
1595:Keep
1587:Talk
1573:and
1509:talk
1487:talk
1461:talk
1405:talk
1392:talk
1374:talk
1346:talk
1333:talk
1314:talk
1292:Talk
1263:Talk
1244:talk
1214:talk
1162:Grsz
1133:talk
1120:talk
1097:talk
1079:TEEL
1044:talk
1031:talk
1013:talk
987:See
973:talk
960:talk
942:talk
921:talk
911:and
839:talk
818:talk
805:talk
770:Weak
741:prod
720:Grsz
683:talk
670:talk
627:talk
606:Note
585:talk
572:talk
549:talk
515:Talk
498:talk
478:talk
465:talk
447:talk
416:talk
403:talk
385:talk
362:Grsz
337:talk
322:talk
307:talk
288:talk
278:See
263:talk
250:talk
231:Grsz
176:logs
150:talk
146:edit
119:logs
93:talk
89:edit
67:talk
2153:|
2097:DGG
1868:not
1866:is
1841:to
1755:to
1732:the
1695:to
1600:DGG
1577:to
1557:|
1551:|
1304:to
746:it,
531:or
201:'s
63:Avi
58:not
2147:--
2104:)
2073:.
2063:)
2012:|
2004:?
1985:)
1970:)
1948:)
1894:)
1825:)
1808:)
1789:)
1783:Ev
1729:of
1707:)
1668:)
1642:ยท
1621:|
1607:)
1585:|
1554:76
1489:)
1463:โข
1438:|
1407:โข
1399:โ
1394:)
1376:)
1368:--
1348:โข
1340:โ
1335:)
1316:)
1261:|
1246:)
1226:--
1216:)
1190:|
1158:.
1135:โข
1127:โ
1122:)
1103:)
1099:โข
1046:โข
1038:โ
1033:)
1015:)
975:โข
967:โ
962:)
944:)
934:is
923:)
889:|
841:)
820:โข
812:โ
807:)
744:}}
738:{{
685:โข
677:โ
672:)
645:-
629:โข
587:โข
579:โ
574:)
551:โข
513:|
500:)
480:โข
472:โ
467:)
449:)
418:โข
410:โ
405:)
387:)
339:)
324:)
309:)
290:)
284:Ev
265:โข
257:โ
252:)
178:|
174:|
170:|
166:|
161:|
157:|
152:|
148:|
121:|
117:|
113:|
109:|
104:|
100:|
95:|
91:|
69:)
48:.
2128:S
2124:S
2100:(
2059:(
2035:S
2031:S
1981:(
1966:(
1944:(
1922:/
1890:(
1821:(
1804:(
1785:(
1768:"
1747:"
1703:(
1664:(
1646:)
1638:(
1603:(
1511:)
1507:(
1485:(
1467:)
1459:(
1403:(
1390:(
1372:(
1344:(
1331:(
1312:(
1289:.
1242:(
1212:(
1131:(
1118:(
1095:(
1077:S
1073:S
1042:(
1029:(
1011:(
971:(
958:(
940:(
919:(
851:B
837:(
816:(
803:(
782:B
681:(
668:(
633:)
625:(
583:(
570:(
555:)
547:(
496:(
476:(
463:(
445:(
414:(
401:(
383:(
335:(
320:(
305:(
286:(
261:(
248:(
182:)
144:(
137:)
127:(
125:)
87:(
65:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.