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their phones, Knowledge (XXG) has no control over what the reliable sources print. If the reliable sources say it, we put it in, if they don't, we don't. Personal opinions about a topic are important to determine whether the article is conveying information properly, but do not address whether the topic and article meet
Wikipledia's article standards. Chaitanya's Book and the Dravidian encyclopaedia convey information about Mappila Malayalam. Does the article accurately reflect what these two sources say about Mappila Malayalam? Are these two sources Knowledge (XXG) reliable sources for the information conveyed? Is the article written in a way that puts the topic of Mappila Malayalam in proper context with respect to the Malayalam language? If the information as presented conveys untrue facts, wouldn't it be better to rewrite the article to accurately convey the information to educate others rather then delete the article to prevent their education? --
1033:- I am afraid your comparison to the phone company and what people say into the phone holds no bearing to what is happening with this article. I think Knowledge (XXG) is a fun source for a lot of interesting opinions but consistent and reliable it is not and that is very truly reflected in the academic world. If I were to tell anyone of the noted scholars that I deal with, 'I read it on Knowledge (XXG)', they would just look at me funny. I know there are many contributors that have a lot of academic credential that are very balanced in their writing but then someone interjects something they think they know about or that 'must be' put in, then the whole concept of accurate information is lost. That is one of it's strengths, in many ways in several areas but also its major flaw when in depth research is needed. The problem here is not something that can be fixed with a rewrite. The dialect, as it is titled does not exist. There
508:- I should have expanded that comment for clarity. I wasn't referring to English or tonal languages. The general language of English and its variant form, American English, includes a vastly different lexicon than say, British English. This is quite distinct. So I don't think that is a valid comparison. Malayalam, Arabi(Arabic)-Malayalam have very subtle dialectal differences regarding pronuciation and tonal value. The addition of other Arabic words does not qualify it as a language or even a new regional dialect. I don't think the subtitles of the actual variation is what is important here.---
1042:, is how we would like to think of it, but unfortunately is not true. It is opinionated and too many times not verifiable. I believe this to be the case with this article and so did Knowledge (XXG) Malayalam. I did spend way too much time researching this one but I wanted to make sure as many bases were covered as possible and still I came back that the article is original research on an academic topic that is essentially false. Sorry to be the stick in the mud about it all but keep it if you like, just makes US Wiki look silly when their own native speakers wouldn't list it.---
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or two Arabic word and voila you have got a new language. It's idotic thing. I had to admit that certain limited words are loaned from Arabic into
Malayalam just like how words like Lorry, Bus are loaned from English. These things never existed when Malayalam was born and no revolutionary writers tried to find alternatives for it. So it struck. That will not make it English Malayalam. Now I think you are convinced that there is only one Malayalam and yes, ofcourse with certain slangs in different parts but nothing religious as such until now.
597:-Article appears to be untrue after further investigation. I researched this dialect and found nothing of substance to corroborate it. Most of the links are misleading and deal with Islam or a connected word in the article's title not with a possible Indian dialect. Also, several individuals from this region of India have chimed in on the Afd page and on the article's discussion page and said this is not a dialect. I know people in this region of Kerela who also said this dialect does not exist. There
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you that it's slang. Similar to the various slangs used in
Bangalore and Northern Karnataka where you will hear "Hengri Hegri etc" A similar style of speaking. This is not restricted to a particular part of Kerala. If you go to the Eranakulam side they have their own style, but it is still Malayalam. Visit Trishur area similar thing. I am astonished to find that this is such a propaganda in the name of religion. It's like saying Mapilla Kannada is spoken by Muslims of Karnataka. Absurd.
811:. Muslims in Malabar are called Mappilas; at many places Christians are also called by that name. Muslims in Malabar use a dialect of Malayalam that has a few words borrowed from Arabic. There are a number of dialects of Malayalam colloquially called Thrissur Malayalam, Kottayam Malayalam (Achadi malayalam), Kozhikkodan malayalam, Theronthoram malayalam, Vadakkan malayalam, Thekkan malayalam and so on, but as I understand,
976:- I would expect those comments from a User but not a seasoned Admin, asking someone to stop giving their opinion. Consensus is about opinion, Jreferee. Here 80% of the Articles are a matter of unscholarly opinion. Did you actually go to the links that you referenced above? Did you research this before you made the above comments? The problem is that are no reliably cited text in these sources. My
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article. I could create an article called
Christian English Tennessee Twang and make it fit the facts but that still wouldn't make it a recognized dialect or make it true. I really question the logic of putting original articles like this in Knowledge (XXG) until we prove it to be untrue. I think the reverse should be the case. I am glad our justice system doesn't work in that way. Your statement
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a correlation between to two words but it is being confused with a distinct dialect. The information it contains should be deleted, as it is original research. The sources do not reflect
Mappila Malayalam as a dialect itself, this has been inferred by the contributor and expounded upon to create this
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to cite to those references. In other words, the cited references can be original research; the article cannot. Unless there is consensus that these references do not support the article, I do not yet see a policy reason to delete the article. In other words, please stop giving your personal opinions
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The second link is by a website run by a Jewish person. Don't know how credible it is. The researcher must have got confused with the way he looks at Kerala. Since the said area is a an area with higher percentage of
Muslims than rest of Kerala he must have thought that it's a different language. One
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I come from this region. The exact region that is quoted in the article to be speaking
Mapilla Malayalam. I have never heard of such a thing in my entire life, until I read this article. I can tell you this is absurd because there exists no such thing that is spoken in these areas. Let me again tell
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is based on outside research and contacting people that actually live in Kerela, India where I have been. Granted, I have studied languages of this area of central Asia, I am not claiming to be an expert in this field but this article is made up and I am not the only one to point that out. Knowledge
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I would like you to go to these areas and ask the people which language they speak. Just like that. They will say
Malayalam. Ask them they had ever heard of Mapilla Malayalam, I can assure you that they will be very much astonished to hear it from you. Also let me remind you that the people of this
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I wrote the article.Every language has its own dialects.Mappila
Malayalam is not a different language, but is a muslim dialect of Malayalam.I have done tons of research and has wasted enough of my valuable time in writing this articles. I have given many reliable reference to this article.If every
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and relies on the reliable source material for reliability. Your claim that
Knowledge (XXG) is so unreliable overall is like claiming that the phone company is unreliable overall because of what people say into their phones. In the same way the phone company has no control over what people say into
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claim to have its own dialect. There is a connection between the Arabic (Mappila) community in Kerela, and the actual language of the people Malayalee but I feel the primary contributer is a bit confused on this being an actual Indian-Arabic dialect, using original undocumented information and not
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There are three links in the article. One is from some NVTC site. It says "The Arabic script is also used occasionally by Muslims in Kerala." Why should muslims in Kerala use Arabic script to write Malayalam. Why not write Arabic itself. The flaw in this statement is that it never claims that the
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a religious distinction, this is also apparent in the infobox which is dedicated to Islam. A comparison would be something like calling Saudi Arabia, Saudi Islam. All Arab ethnic groups are not Muslims. Granted, before anyone chimes in about this yes, I am aware that there are mentions of other
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Thank you for your post on my talk page. I'm not sure why you think my 18:30, 22 November 2007 post above was directed specifically at you. It wasn't. Knowledge (XXG) is nothing more than a neutral and unbiased compilation of previously written, verifiable information. Knowledge (XXG) prohibits
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Krishna Chaitanya was a journalist/writer, his real name was Krishna something else but used Chaitanya as a pseudonym. He was a Malayali but operated out of somewhere in North India. This book about Kerala was republished in Malayalam, I read this translation many years ago but can't remember
182:- per WaltClip. The article seems reasonably well sourced, has a variety of external links which relate to the subject, and is therefore verifiable. Another reason is the notability of the subject. Although I wouldn't base any keep on search engine hits, the article receives
165:. If you feel the article is incorrect, your best interests would be to edit the article and find sources with which to countermand its facts, or perhaps create another article addressing the fallacies within this. However, outright deletion is not the answer.--
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After going through the article again, I think it should probably be deleted. The only salvageable content seems to be the difference in vocabulary between Standard Malayalam and Muslim dialects. This information could be added to the dialects section in
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Muslims of Kerala writes Malayalam in Arabic script. First of all the Muslims of Kerala are not well versed with Arabic. Even in mosques during Ramadan time and all the speech is given to the faithful in Malayalam but a translator, that's the Maulvi.
623:. I am a native speaker of the language, but I have never heard of this name before. I am aware that Muslim speakers have their own "dialect" of Malayalam. For example, they use "Umma" and "Baapa" for "Amma" and "Achan" (Mother and Father). --
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I think the issue here, at least for me, is the original research in an area that requires an outside expert should not be maintained here as 'first hand publishing' and the title implies the religion versus cultural difference and is not
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religions that are vaguely connected to 'Mappila' but the consensus is that it is primarily a religious divide. After reviewing the history of other Malayalam related articles there have been attempts to divide the language along various
711:- THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS MAPPILA MAYALAM AS A RECOGNIZED DIALECT!! You can not merge this because it is not a valid term for all of you academicians here. The article called Arabic Malayalam deals with this and it is not divided by
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distinction with this discussion. The word Mappila generally (but not completely), refers to or is interchangeable as "Muslim" in this region. 'Arabic' is more definitive as it deals with ethnic origin versus Mappila which is
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No comment on the validity of all this relative to what the local users posted above, but the sources if nothing else assert and show that the subject is notable. Sounds like anything else is a content dispute. •
161:- Though your concerns are not without merit, this article is notable and verifiable. Claiming that the content of a certain subject is heresy or idiocy will not get the article deleted; this is censorship and
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It is not relevant that this language might not be know by Wikipedians or even that it might be a desire by the reilable sources to promote it as a language. There are two references cited in that article:
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Arunkumar- I see you put a lot of work into the article and it looks great. I know that the Mappila are associated with Malayalam but are you the first to write about it as a distinct dialect? Thanks!---
473:-Well, accuracy is kinda of an important factor in this case. With the two Articles you have listed above, you are dealing a national lexicon not with undocumented local tonal variations.---
491:, but American English does differ in more than just "national lexicon", and if it was "undocumented variation" we wouldn't very well be able to document in Knowledge (XXG), would we? --
321:. People have even made up entire wikipedias on language that doesn't exist (Siberian - ru-sib). So having a well organized article is not any sufficient reason to keep the article. --
230:. Most are foreign language hits so I can't personally determine their relevance to this discussion. But even the two together don't come close to the 31k in the unbounded search.
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796:, especially talking into consideration the comment of one muslim who belongs to this region, and based on my own research from some sources, my understanding is this:
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in this area. I defer primary weight of this discussion to the native speakers in the area that say this is not the correct distinction of this dialect.---
215:. (And the first on the list is the Knowledge (XXG) article. That's not usually a good sign though some of the other hits do appear possibly relevant.)
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without consensus, to what appears to be a content or naming dispute (a common problem in linguistics), rather than notability or other reason to delete.
740:, is that you can at least merge the vocabulary part of this article. Muslims in Kerala do have a different form of Malayalam. You could mention that. --
211:"Malayalam". To verify the existence of this particular topic, you needed to put the phrase in quotes. A properly formatted google search returns only
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802:. Arabi Malayalam is a style of writing Arabic text using Malayalam alphabet to facilitate learning of Islamic texts in Arabic. Source -
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if the article can't simply be deleted per se, you can change it to support your point, but that will be eventually checked as well.
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per Vivin, logical choice. I had originally closed this as a snowball keep/POV pushing, and I apologize to the nom for doing so.
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substantiating the article. He is choosing to list multiple links to the Islamic faith unrelated to the article. The article
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352:, nom evidently attempting to censor Knowledge (XXG). Non-admin closure." This nomination did not meet the criteria for a
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The article is well formatted, written and appears to have many valid sources, which clearly make it notable. I agree with
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Mr. Varma said the seminar would also include sessions on `Chavittu Natakam,' `Arabi Malayalam' script, Theyyam, poetry
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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981:(XXG) Malayalam deleted it for that reason. No wonder Knowledge (XXG) is so unreliable overall. Your Welcome---
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Comment: I'm afraid your google search was malformed. Your search returned all instances of "Mappila"
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good in format but is basically not true. --- Iconoclast.Horizon (talk) 03:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)*
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none of these dialects, especially Mappila Malayalam, have been formally recognized by that name
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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wikipedians are against this article, then i have no more word to say.I strongly recomend to
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381:. Although not "Mappila Malayalam" (in that order), here is one use of "Malayalam Mappila":
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Therefore, the legend lives through a unique trans-literary genre called Arabi-Malayalam.
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References have to be reliable. Who is Chaitanya? Who wrote Dravidian encyclopedia? --
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background! There is confusion here with the religious verses cultural context.----
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296:-A pretty article with lot's of links still doesn't make the article true---
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was deleted from the malayalam wikipedia, which though has an article on
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The `isapat' in Arabi Malayalam adds to the colourfulness of the poem
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and start discussing the reliable source material. Thank you. --
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appear to be an Islamic (Arabic) connection in the region but it
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I don't know whether the article is accurate or not, but this is
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
788:. Based on second hand information from the discussions in the
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closed this discussion early with the comment "The result was
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Arabi Malayalam is entirely different from Mappila Malayalam
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closure. I am administratively re-opening the discussion.
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Update: A google search with the terms reversed returns
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area (Irrespective of religion) speak the same slang.
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this article should say something to its accuracy.---
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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487:What are you talking about? English isn't
809:Mapplima Malayalam as named doesn't exist
782:Could use the table in some other article
385:. Here are some uses of Arabi-Malayalam.
383:Malayalam Mappila poet Bappu Velliparambu
759:: This debate has been included in the
901:Kerala:India, the land and the people.
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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163:Knowledge (XXG) is not censored
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247:Mappila Songs
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243:mappila pattu
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910:. It is not
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852:thunderboltz
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379:content fork
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317:-Agree with
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871:founded.---
823:problem. --
354:speedy keep
277:scope_creep
264:Strong Keep
184:30,900 hits
941:Jacob.jose
825:Jacob.jose
493:Alivemajor
458:Alivemajor
323:Jacob.jose
1009:Jreferee
919:Jreferee
786:Malayalee
784:: I am a
572:religions
567:primarily
401:Jreferee
1077:contribs
713:religion
603:does not
116:View log
1031:Comment
978:opinion
974:Comment
892:Comment
868:Comment
734:Comment
715:but by
709:Comment
562:primary
558:Comment
531:Comment
506:Comment
471:Comment
358:Rossami
342:Comment
315:COMMENT
294:COMMENT
268:WaltCip
232:Rossami
217:Rossami
167:WaltCip
89:protect
84:history
50:Bearian
960:Tintin
840:Delete
817:slangs
767:¿Amar៛
637:Delete
595:Delete
544:Tintin
430:Stifle
362:(talk)
274:": -->
250:Tintin
236:(talk)
221:(talk)
190:Rudget
93:delete
821:WP:OR
763:. --
743:vi5in
738:Merge
686:Merge
647:vi5in
626:vi5in
617:Merge
608:looks
489:tonal
422:Merge
397:. --
373:into
371:Merge
110:views
102:watch
98:links
16:<
1107:Keep
1094:talk
1071:talk
1063:KEEP
1048:talk
987:talk
945:talk
903:and
877:talk
829:talk
757:Note
725:talk
671:talk
644:. --
599:does
580:talk
514:talk
497:talk
479:talk
462:talk
456:. --
434:talk
350:Keep
327:talk
302:talk
281:talk
198:talk
180:Keep
171:talk
159:Keep
149:talk
141:talk
106:logs
80:talk
76:edit
54:talk
46:keep
905:(2)
897:(1)
850:.--
698:•
688:to
619:to
446:not
424:to
114:– (
1096:)
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1035:is
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209:or
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615:*
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413:c
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407:t
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74:(
52:(
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