877:- particularly those who have played one or more league games, U-21 internationals, or who have represented the English National Game XI. My experience is that Conference clubs/players DO get almost as much write up as their League 2 equivalents - the results are read out on Final Score/5 Live etc, and listed in the same newspapers as the League 2 results. Bookies offer odds on them the same way as League 2 games. Plus, there is a 60-page newspaper each week "The Non-League Paper", of which probably half is dedicated to Conference reports/features/speculation etc. Not to mention local sources. -
635:, Conference players are the wrong side of that line, so they should be deleted. The point I was trying to make with "an article about myself" (and by the way, the userpage shouldn't really be an article about oneself!) is that you can't use the justification that people have put time into something as grounds for keeping it. One could create an article on something utterly trivial (like me!) and devote huge amounts of time to it, but that doesn't mean it's worthy of a place on Knowledge. Cheers,
381:. Talbott and Flynn are the only two who appear to have played a game at a higher level than the Conference (I've added to those two articles to clarify this). Danny Edwards did not, the Edwards that played for Shrewsbury in 2002-03 was Dave Edwards. Not sure about Ged Murphy as he may or may not have played for Oldham. If the others are to be deleted, how about transferring the details to a section on the club page about non-notable (in the WP:BIO) sense players?
621:
deserve as much recognition as the
Premiership, these players still go out on Saturday afternoon and play football for 90 minutes and if you ask me, a better quality of football than the Premiership sometimes. If there was a profile for every player in the Conference who would that be hurting? No one. it would just educate people. I think some people need to stop being so picky. --
719:
other evidence- in effect, to do otherwise would be to accept original research, as odd as that might sound. I myself strongly disagree with opening the floodgates to allow semi-professional footballers at conference and conference north/south level, but this is of course open to debate. You may wish to argue with the point at
764:
looking for things they don't like, my advice is get a life pal, there are more important things in life than deleting off profiles of players that you don't like. Anyway Hornet man the way
Watford are playing they will soon be in the Conference and we can delete off all their profiles when that happens.
763:
Yeah I have to agree, some hard work has been put into these profiles and it shouldn't matter whether they are world class players or semi professionals, people work hard to make these profiles for others benefit, I cannot believe some people have the time to go over wikipedia with a fine toothcombe
620:
So your telling me, hours of work on professional footballers is just going to be deleted off because they are not in the top flight, please! And what do you mean you could write an article about yourself, you have, it's called your user profile, wake up!. All I'm saying is that the lower down teams
909:
with the possible exception of Flynn and
Maamria if their brief careers as professionals are shown to have non-trivial media coverage - though no sources demonstrating this have yet been provided. Talbott's professional career consists of a single substitute appearance which did not merit a mention
718:
Sorry, but the principle of an encyclopedia is that it requires sources in order to make the information verifiable. If you can provide sources to show that these players played, then please do, but we can't just take the recollection of someone who may or may not have seen them when there is no
575:
I would argue the
Conference is the lowest league that should have player profiles in its own right as it is a professional league (personally I think 5 full time divisions is too many) , Conference North and South are not so any profiles should only be for players who have dropped down.
630:
No, I'm not saying these players should be deleted because they're not playing in the top flight, don't put words in my mouth. The point is, if
Knowledge is to maintain its standards, there has to be a point whether you're either worthy of a page or not. According to guidelines
294:
as under-21 player (I'm open to counter arguments though, anyway other youth teams don't suffice). The articles of Danny
Edwards and Ged Murphy assert notability (playing above Conference), but this is not backed up by Soccerbase.com. The rest of the articles are in trouble per
656:
No. If a player plays in League 2 or above they pass notability criteria. That's why I haven't nominated every single player in the
Conference. All the players (well, not all, I've made a couple of mistakes) have only played as high as the Conference, and thus do not pass
610:
No, it's not what
Knowledge's all about. Knowledge's about creating a verifiable online encyclopedia. I could put a lot of effort into writing an article about me. Wouldn't mean it should be kept. And if we had an article for everyone who appeared on television...
351:
I'd recommend being very wary of using soccerbase as the way of backing this up. Nathan
Talbott has played in the league for Yeovil Town according to the Stafford Rangers website for example. Doesn't help when the articles don't say this though!
692:
erm Danny
Edwards HAS played for shewsbury, i saw him play for them in a competitive match. Also Ged Murphy has played in for Oldham Athletic during his time there. I also feel the line is to high why not stop players profiles at Conference
672:
One thing is that the BBC, Sky Sports websites etc all give as much coverage on the Conference as they do on other leagues; the BBC site has profiles for all Conference National clubs, and Sky Sports provides news for them. --
644:
So what you are saying is if a team is relegated from League 2, all the profiles for each and every player should be deleted? and if your own userpage should not "really be an article about oneself", who should it be about? --
740:
In fact, the Yorkshire Post and York Press both give detailed match reports for York City who are in the Conference National, and the BBC also gives a match report which also includes statistics on the match. --
929:. If the Keepers wish to make Conference players notable then this should be done through a separate policy proposal. The only basis for a keep would be multiple non-trivial sources that have not been produced.
723:, and establish a new consensus of notability. The state at the moment, however, is that the players (with the exception of the few noted above) fall below the level of notability established by consensus at
682:
Fair point, but I'd argue that the press covers them far less. You might get a report on League 2 sides in the papers, but it's very unlikely you'll see anything but results for Conference sides.
522:
Strong Keep - There is very little difference in standard between League 2 and the Conference. Playing for aconference side is a lot more significant than bring a youth team player in league 2
507:
shows he played 9 times in the US, and refers to him as a former Tunisian Under-21 international. Setting up the redirect from his shortened name (Dino) also reveals a link from the
549:- Just so you know, youth team players in League 2 (or in the Premier League, for that matter) would generally be deleted, unless they'd made an appearance for the first team.
339:
Daniel Parslow is a former under-21 INTERNATIONAL with caps; that seems worthy of an article to me. I don't think the existence of these articles does anyone harm anyway. --
889:
I'd just like to point out that this debate is lurching towards a generalised discussion on whether or not Conference players should be considered notable. As the current
562:
I've seen plenty of youth and reserve players at big and not so big clubs who have never played first team football. So that is a lot of work to do to get rid of them.
941:
Nathan Talbott made fl appearance for Yeovil Town. Lee Flynn played for Barnet when they were in Football League. Daniel Parslow played for England under 21s.
113:
270:
266:
750:
I agree Tamworth get the same kind of coverage in the midlands area. They often featured in the Birmingham Evening Mail as well as the BBC website. --
119:
states that the players must have made an appearance in a fully professional league. Woolford has not played a league game above Conference level.
944:
992:
589:
These articles should be kept. A lot of time, effort and research has gone into them, and it is what wikipedia is all about. Some of the
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83:
78:
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players on WP, and although those appearances won't appear on Soccerbase, you can be fairly sure he played for their first-team.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
970:
Soccerbase is, in no way, a definitive reference source. More authorative locations are the post war database
661:. Re: the user page, it should contain information about you, but I would call it an article per se! Cheers,
447:
of having played in a fully professional league, and not having any evidence of other verifiable notability.
261:
I know the Conference is approaching fully-professional status, but until it attains that these players fail
1014:
960:
933:
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where the supporters of this view could endeavour to establish a consensus for changing the guidlines.....?
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guidelines say they aren't (not a fully professional league) surely such a discussion is better suited to
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Lee Flynn played in the football league with Barnet in 2000-01. Also Edwards played for Shrewsbury in
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258:. I've been through these players Soccerbase profiles and again can't spot any League appearances.
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537:- And Conference North/South isn't much different from the Conference. Where you draw the line?
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does not show anything more for any of the listed players that has not already been mentioned.
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29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
1004:
948:
227:
683:
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636:
612:
593:
players suggested for deletion where nation television the other day and one even scored (
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815:. They are even able to fail a way too inclusionist list of notability principles on
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973:(though would merit a search engine) or, even better, a complete database from 1888
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563:
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481:
435:- played professionally for Barnet before they were relegated into the conference.
417:
Stokie matt's only contributions are to this afd. Possible single purpose account?
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104:
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235:
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191:
187:
971:
112:
The second part of my analysis of Conference players started here:
1022:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
861:
Parslow, Flynn, Talbott and Maamria based on above discussions.
976:(though sadly much of the info here is now subscription only).
792:
and that is a reason good enough for me to vote delete here. –
1008:
974:
511:
article, but I'm not sure he was ever a full international.
337:
Strong keep especially Daniel Parslow + strong keep others
100:
96:
92:
46:
Keeping Talbott, Flynn, and Parslow. Deleting the rest.
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1001:Keep Nathan Talbott, Lee Flynn and Daniel Parslow
939:Keep Nathan Talbott, Lee Flynn and Daniel Parslow
299:, English Conference is not a high enough level.
1032:). No further edits should be made to this page.
281:'s list of football (soccer) related deletions.
8:
788:are not reasons to keep. These players fail
727:, that is, footballers who have played in a
114:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Paul Benson
910:in the local press report about the match
271:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Nicky Eyre
267:Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Nicky Gray
327:and Ben Martin played for Swindon once.
597:). DO NOT DELETE THESE PROFILES!!! --
277:This discussion has been included in
122:For the same reason, I am nominating
7:
431:- played professionally for Yeovil.
248:Alex Rhodes (footballer born 1988)
24:
395:These articles should be kept.--
786:WP:IWORKEDONITHARDYOUDELETIONIST
379:Further comment and a suggestion
488:save him? There are a fair few
443:as not meeting the criteria of
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
721:Knowledge:WikiProject Football
439:- several caps for Wales U21.
1:
292:Very weak keep Daniel Parslow
1015:19:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
961:11:22, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
934:04:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
918:18:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
902:18:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
882:17:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
870:17:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
824:15:17, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
808:15:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
772:00:56, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
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687:11:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
678:10:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
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616:17:55, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
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567:10:07, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
554:20:33, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
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516:00:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
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469:14:07, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
452:18:13, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
422:18:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
413:16:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
400:16:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
386:10:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
344:08:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
332:00:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
316:00:01, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
304:23:50, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
287:23:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
53:16:02, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
1049:
404:Could you elaborate as to
148:Danny Edwards (footballer)
729:fully professional league
184:Simon Martin (footballer)
144:Nathan Smith (footballer)
136:Wayne Daniel (footballer)
1025:Please do not modify it.
437:Weak keep Daniel Parslow
212:Dave Clarke (footballer)
32:Please do not modify it.
265:. Precedents are here:
224:Tony James (footballer)
831:- They don't all fail
460:In addition to above,
164:Tom Davis (footballer)
947:comment was added by
408:they should be kept?
509:Tunisian senior team
279:WikiProject Football
244:Darren Hollingsworth
464:per ArtVandelay13.
429:Keep Nathan Talbott
490:USL First Division
486:Charleston Battery
124:Noureddine Maamria
1012:Daemonic Kangaroo
997:
983:comment added by
964:
855:
841:comment added by
813:Strong delete all
806:
714:
700:comment added by
462:Keep Dino Maamria
441:Delete ALL OTHERS
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359:comment added by
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1040:
1027:
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311:per nomination.
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228:Craig McAllister
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1030:deletion review
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985:AlbertBroadbent
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943:—The preceding
925:- fail to meet
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220:Harry Hambleton
200:Jason Goodliffe
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67:Martyn Woolford
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44:The result was
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979:— Preceding
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899:ChrisTheDude
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837:— Preceding
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733:Robotforaday
728:
696:— Preceding
693:North/South.
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586:
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551:Robotforaday
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534:
520:
484:'s spell at
482:Dino Maamria
477:
466:Robotforaday
461:
449:Robotforaday
440:
436:
432:
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419:Robotforaday
410:ChrisTheDude
405:
392:
378:
355:— Preceding
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336:
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308:
291:
260:
168:Rambir Marwa
140:Craig Lovatt
121:
111:
45:
43:
31:
28:
1005:Englishrose
949:Englishrose
895:WP:FOOTBALL
595:Kyle Storer
587:Strong Keep
397:Stokie matt
393:Strong Keep
236:Neal Bishop
208:Kyle Storer
196:Nick Roddis
180:Ricky Perks
156:Chris Seeby
931:BlueValour
923:Delete all
907:Delete all
782:WP:ILIKEIT
778:Delete all
769:Stew jones
684:HornetMike
663:HornetMike
637:HornetMike
613:HornetMike
539:HornetMike
309:Delete all
301:Punkmorten
284:HornetMike
252:Arran Reid
192:Ben Martin
172:Paul Hakim
152:Ged Murphy
915:Oldelpaso
780:per nom.
752:Jonesy702
647:Jonesy702
623:Jonesy702
599:Jonesy702
480:- should
188:Lee Flynn
993:contribs
981:unsigned
957:contribs
945:unsigned
875:Keep all
865:others.
851:contribs
843:WikiGull
839:unsigned
710:contribs
698:unsigned
591:Tamworth
383:WikiGull
369:contribs
361:WikiGull
357:unsigned
1007:. 1888
1003:as per
968:Comment
887:Comment
829:Comment
794:Elisson
702:Pique28
578:Ram4eva
564:Ram4eva
547:Comment
535:Comment
524:Ram4eva
478:Comment
349:Comment
325:2002-03
321:Comment
84:protect
79:history
927:WP:BIO
891:WP:BIO
863:Delete
833:WP:BIO
821:Angelo
817:WP:BIO
790:WP:BIO
725:WP:BIO
659:WP:BIO
633:WP:BIO
503:Edit-
445:WP:BIO
313:Qwghlm
297:WP:BIO
263:WP:BIO
117:WP:BIO
88:delete
573:Reply
105:views
97:watch
93:links
16:<
989:talk
953:talk
879:fchd
859:Keep
847:talk
819:. --
784:and
706:talk
505:this
365:talk
269:and
254:and
101:logs
75:talk
71:edit
406:why
154:,r
50:Avi
995:)
991:•
959:)
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913:.
853:)
849:•
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731:.
712:)
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371:)
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250:,
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134:,
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103:|
99:|
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91:|
86:|
82:|
77:|
73:|
48:.
987:(
963:.
951:(
845:(
805:•
803:C
799:T
704:(
363:(
107:)
69:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.