75:. This is an original synthesis, taking bits and pieces of a fictional story and arranging them into a timeline, with no clear criteria for inclusion or omission. Additionally, none of this can be referenced save to direct observation of the games in question, and each of the games already has its own article (as well as a series of sub-articles and an umbrella series article) to describe its story. -
787:: "Plot summaries. Knowledge (XXG) articles on works of fiction should contain real-world context and sourced analysis, offering detail on a work's achievements, impact or historical significance, not solely a summary of that work's plot. A plot summary may be appropriate as an aspect of a larger topic."
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That was the separate "Metal Gear timeline compared to reality", which coexisted along with this article. This article only lists facts mentioned in the games themselves, whereas the old timeline was full of speculation and analysis. This timeline isn't encyclopedic, but it's not nearly as bad as the
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It's only been up a couple of days, and people haven't noticed it's up yet. Guaranteed now it's been mentioned here, more votes will appear. But trying to argue the merits of keeping an article based on a 2 day old unfinshed AfD of another article is shakier than the 'but these articles haven't been
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manual gives the timeline from 1986 to 1999 also in exactly the same order in this article. If this article was just a combination of these timelines, then that cannnot be considered "original research" because of the fact that it's a direct copy of several other pre-existing timelines from official
422:
It's idiosyncratic arrangement of those plot details: the process of deciding which details from the primary sources to include and exclude is original research. It's plot summary by definition if you're recapping a story. The in-universe issue can be resolved with cleanup; the original research and
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word-for-word, but was pointing out that there is no original research involved in taking information from official timelines. Well anyway, I've just been looking around for whether there are any policies on fictional timelines, and I doubt there is actually any policy against them, considering the
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I find arguing that an article should be kept because similar articles haven't been nominated for deletion is a really poor arguement anyway. Maybe those other articles haven't been deleted simply because no-one has got round to nominating them? I know I'm certainly going to be giving them a close
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It's not original research if the information is copied directly from manuals and documents giving specific years and timelines. It's not plot summary if it doesn't summarize the plot from the games themselves. As for the in-universe aspect, that could be eliminated with a clean-up, by describing
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It's original research because it arranges bits and pieces of plot summary in an idiosyncratic way. It's plot summary because all of these are story or backstory points. It's in-universe because it describes the fictional universe as though it were a real universe, with no reference to the one in
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As with all articles, we'll later deal with those on the merits. In the case of this article, no amount of cleanup can make it not a substantive reproduction of source material or pure plot summary. We don't need a rule that specifically outlaws timelines in order to realize that this particular
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on
Knowledge (XXG) which haven't been subjected to much controversy nor have they ever been nominated for deletion. Why should the Metal Gear timeline be treated any differently to the others? Like I said, this can be solved with a clean-up (and looking at other examples).
413:
each event from an out-of-universe perspective. For example, instead of simply saying "Person A was born in place B in the year C", we could instead say "The manual of game X reveals that the fictional character A was born in place B in the year C".
337:. It's not necessary for this article to be deleted but it just requires a clean-up. All it needs is for us to remove most of the information that are "in-universe" and only keep the information that is found in manuals and supplemental documents.
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Such a plot summary is going to substantially rely on the structure of the work itself, whereas this reassembles the story points into a new fashion. Ideally we should be using secondary sources even when writing plot summaries, though. -
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about it (or any timeline for that matter) that cannot be fixed with a cleanup. If you do still wish delete this fictional timeline, then we might aswell delete all of them... but like
Kinslayer ponted out, it looks like the
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I suppose that's true, but it's a problematic way to define "original research" because by your definition, every
Knowledge (XXG) article about a film or novel that includes a plot summary — which is virtually
297:... although there really is no point voting anymore since I'm clearly outnumbered. But at least let me clear up a misconception about this article: most of the information in this timeline is not
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That's not a defense, it's just a plain fact that the majority over there prefer to keep that article, at least for now. Anyway, I think I might have changed my mind after looking through
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Dammit, You beat me to it, I'd just posted the exact same thing but got edit conflict! But yes, that is exactly what I was going to say and so I stand by my delete opinion.
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has also been nominated, although the vast majority over there actually wish to keep it, which further complicates the issue of whether timelines are acceptable.
305:. Most of the information are in fact taken from game manuals and supplemental documents that were supplied with the games. In particular, the manual for
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375:" taken from instruction manuals and various documents. That is why I am suggesting we clean-up this article rather than deleting it.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Knowledge (XXG) article about a film or novel — should be stricken due to the "original research" objection.
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371:" from an instruction manual. This article is not meant to be a plot summary, but just a collection of "
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manual gives the timeline from 1939 to 1964 exactly in the same order as shown in this article. The
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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ending gives the timeline from 1964 to 1971 exactly in the same order as this article. The
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sources. Again, I don't see the point in a deletion if a clean-up is all it requires.
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contains a detailed timeline from 1986 to 1999. Other information was taken from the
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timeline is extremely problematic, in ways that cannot be fixed with cleanup. -
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the same as those sources like you say, then surely it's also a copyvio issue?
771:. If we can't keep it here, then how about a transwiki to wikibooks instead.
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a dumping ground for instruction manual material, or a plot summary..
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contains a detailed timeline from 1939 to 1964, while the manual for
558:, not an absolute solution. I was not suggesting we copy anything
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Half-Life series storyline
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per nom, or transwiki if there's a suitable destination. --
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Castlevania timeline
687:. Transwiki might actually be a better idea after all.
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Maybe it is just me but I still fail to see what's so
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Kids have too much spare time in school these days.
811:any relevant/salvageable information into the main
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
554:That was quick. Well that was just a hypothetical
367:" from an instruction manual, but it can include "
844:). No further edits should be made to this page.
512:Then it's duplicating source material, another
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116:per nom, this serves no encyclopedic value
563:fact that there are already a dozen other
373:descriptions of people, places, and things
369:descriptions of people, places, and things
194:Note: This debate has been added to the
174:: This debate has been included in the
104:per nomination. I agree, word for word.
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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423:plot summary problems cannot be. -
221:I'm sure we've seen this before...
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604:inspection afterwards. (And FYI,
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176:list of Japan-related deletions
335:Document of Metal Gear Solid 2
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608:should show you this article
333:, and from the script in the
68:Redundant and irreconcilably
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137:per nom. Comment: WTF?
311:Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake
837:Please do not modify it.
387:which you and I live. -
363:, Wiki-articles should "
32:Please do not modify it.
815:article if feasible or
747:clearly it's what the
821:Dread Lord CyberSkull
657:extremely problematic
196:list of CVG deletions
674:nominated' defense.
662:Castlevania timeline
565:fictional timelines
63:Metal Gear timeline
721:- Not notable. --
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346:But in that case,
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813:Metal Gear
733:per nom.
723:Sensenmann
773:Jagged 85
769:Transwiki
755:†he Bread
689:Jagged 85
666:Jagged 85
580:A Man In
570:Jagged 85
518:A Man In
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465:A Man In
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261:per nom.
233:A Man In
77:A Man In
751:eh MIB?
594:past ops
590:conspire
541:If it's
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455:Cribcage
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327:Briefing
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797:Comment
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560:exactly
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287:Alan Au
183:Eury4we
133:Vote:
785:WP:NOT
781:Delete
745:Delete
731:Delete
719:Delete
610:hasn't
514:WP:NOT
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325:, the
283:Delete
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135:Delete
114:Delete
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809:Merge
583:Bl♟ck
521:Bl♟ck
468:Bl♟ck
451:every
428:Bl♟ck
392:Bl♟ck
236:Bl♟ck
198:. --
80:Bl♟ck
16:<
817:keep
765:Keep
516:. -
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321:and
295:Keep
172:Note
163:Talk
124:talk
54:Talk
48:. —
767:or
301:or
208:RON
202:moe
181:--
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50:TKD
824:✎☠
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