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merely stubs, but nevertheless there was some discussion going on on whether they should exist or not. Some were deleted and then revived, tagged, marked for deletion, deleted again, and then revived and so on... At a final phase, the discussions yielded that these articles would remain (no consensus and stuff). Eventually all tags and markings for deletions and notability were all (maybe but one) removed, and the articles were "clean". It seemed then that they would be allowed to exist and gradually be developed in time. Then we come now, after less than a month, with no much initial debate, within less than 24 hours, two articles are marked and deleted (Jasmini Ananda, Rajesh Ananda), and suddenly, when all articles were "clean" and seemed that would just "let be", are marked for deletion, to be merged and so on. At this point, I really do not want to repeat the discussions that took place less than a month ago, because what is said was said, and the turnout was that these articles would remain. So, the twofold ladies and gentlemen, is whether these articles will remain, let some voices heard and be given a chance to grow?- Or delete the articles and silence those opinions expressed in them? I realize that the articles are not (were not) perfect, much more info was yet to be added and the community participation was not as massive as expected, but I think they have potential, they do constitute notability (that yes, has to be proven) and therefore my opinion is to stay, let them be and let them grow. In the case they are deleted, then as community of people interested into this domain we must prepare a proper more "reinforced" articles before we actually upload them and definitely draw the community's attention to it so there is a steady and healthy participation. I am calling off for tonight, have a good one. Cheers,
927:" Is a meditator foolish or is he a fool? Why meditate? Most people are forever seeking a joy in life, and to seek joy of life one has to be an innocent fool. For in that foolishness brings the very joy that you want. So rather be a foolfilled meditator than a concentrated one. Concentration is a mental quality but a true meditator has heart quality. Would you like your mind to be filled with foolishness or would you like your Heart to be filed with innocence? If the mind is filled with various thoughts, that mind be sure to know, rambles on from thought to thought and ends up in contemplation and not meditation. Contemplation leads to analysis, where one thought battles with the other and this creates conflict. But in meditation one is freed from the conflicts created from the mind. So be a fool! In systematic meditation the very foolishness brings fullness, where you, being a fool, as I am, would learn to enjoy yourself. Get away from the mind. For in getting away you rid yourself of all attachments and cravings, and what you are left with then is the true fool, and only that fool can ever know the meaning of fullness. The fool in his foolishness becomes fulfilled in his innocence." ...Gururaj Ananda Yogi...March 1986. This man started the Foundation and FISU is going on with the work he started.This is NOT a "wallet garden", this is the "proof of the pudding, which lies in the eating"--- eat it and know.(User Jacha 28.01.2007)
638:. The second "reference" is the group's own website, also not the kind of source that can establish notability. That leaves the article with just two mentions in a single Cyprus newspaper. Perhaps there are multiple featured coverage in reliable sources, but this article should be kept only if some are found and cited. Before I get accused of hating and being at war, I'm not making any value judgment about the group or its practices; I meditate, especially to avoid getting upset with people who think that their most important function is getting their special interest covered in Knowledge. Such a priority leads people to suspect that the true goal is promotion, not spiritual improvement.
808:.I think the articles constitute a satisfactory degree of notability, because they have sufficient references . I have personally read all the books published by Gururaj Ananda Yogi and I have found them really interesting.I also disagree that the articles should be deleted because Meditation for spiritual unfoldment is practiced by a large number or people. I personally know more than a 100 people practising the techniques of Gururaj Ananda Yogi and noticing tremendus changes in their way of thinking changing their lives for the better.I should say that before you condemn something you should first try it.
1044:) and they are from different authors, different point of views (some their commonality may not go any further from the title) and so on. Also, a more thorough examination of the current references (books, external links, websites etc) can show that they are referred from different sources (organizations, societies, individual authors etc) and also some of them are not related / directly related (solely) to meditation, nor meditation to spiritual unfoldment. Anyway, those books that were found will be used (for content, as references and so on). Please keep comments coming.
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very aware of the intricacies of the philosophical debate between Niels Bohr and
Einstein regarding quantum mechanics, but more than a few second-rate popularisations of science, many of which focus on Bohmian mechanics, take comments of Einstein out of all context. I was not accusing you of lying. I merely believe that you are misinformed if you think that Einstein came up with the idea of unfoldment a la David Bohm (in fact, Einstein dismissed Bohm's work as being 'cheap', and for that I
773:, some more content was added, and links to third parties (bbc, med and gov sites were added). I believe all these do constitute notability, or at least if they don't universally convince for their notability, they show good potential for these articles to be further developed in the future (and up to the point where they will universally convince for their notability). It is agreed that they need to be worked out, but bear in mind their recency (< month). I believe they should
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mostly the same thing is not expressed in many other close terms. And in this case, it does. I really find most unnecessary to repeat (but it seems it is needed) about the importance of a thorough examination of ALL books, links, references, websites and whatever else is mentioned in these articles, before jumping and expressing with such a crude way into these kind of incendiary conclusions. So I plea for one more time to those that want to post an opinion: before doing as such
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language or not very good at it, because the language truly is very bad indeed. But that's incidental, really, since if the subject matter merited an encyclopaedia article, the language could be fixed. Incidentally, Einstein most certainly did not come up with the idea of 'unfoldment', and nor did Kant. Please don't misrepresent the status of your beliefs. If they are valid, they ought to stand on their own, without spurious references to well-known thinkers.
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so many different organizations practicing meditation for spiritual unfoldment every day. You are trying to say that what they teach for hundreds and hundreds of years, that the people who have experienced and benefited from these techniques, is not important for people who want to know about it? I suggest you guys pay more attention on what you are trying to delete.
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a better place without this article. I think those comments are even predujuice or make by someone who has not discovered the spiritual path. Our methods of
Spiritual Unfolmdent are unique and indivually prescribed for each person that comes to learn. There is no such organsiation in the world with our track record or achievements. W: -->
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no argument for deletion (and doesn't bother me personnally being natively
Finnish/Swedish). These and and other superficial issues can easily be corrected and should be. The beauty of the wikipedia is it's evolution. Hopfully towards something we would refer to as Truth. Deleting this article would be a big step in the other direction.
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that are pillaring, lead to and from the
Spiritual Unfoldment meditation are the Unfoldment of the Heart, the finding of Greater happiness, a life of Philosophy that is a living philosophy under a non-denominational / non-sectarian spectrum'. Knowledge would be a much better place without this article, as well as the article on the
534:: after exhaustive check, you have to be be proven 100% clear and with rightful purposes in order to be registered. So if you really think that our "chaps" and "garbled language" have actually managed to deceive the Commission (that in effect represents the British Public), then please report us using the Commission's
1041:(that btw, it wasn't something created by him), as they please. And they do. In fact, some use it very differently from each other (but that's another story - if members of other organizations found out about this discussion it would go on forever). Anyway, a simple search at Amazon yields these books (
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The references and books of the articles are no doubt of a diverse spectrum of knowledge and not from a single source. This subject and knowledge is going on for thousands of years. You now come to say that there is not enough information because you have No Idea about what it is all about? There are
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it would seem very clear that
Gururaj has his given place in any encyclopedia. I can find no qualitative difference between Gururajs writings and talks and those of Vivekananda, Ramakrishna, Rumi and Milarepa whom all are represented and rightly so in the wikipedia. Possible flaws in the language are
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I have no intention of reporting anyone to any boards or anything. The
Commission does not judge any institution on the objective validity of its spiritual practices; it merely makes sure that institutions are not set up to make people money. Being a non-profit entity does not make an organisation,
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I don't appreciate your passive-aggressive stance, MarekTT. The article on 'unfoldment' is an appalling mess, and full of original research. It does indeed mention
Einstein, stating that he had an affinity for Buddhism, a dubious fact which needs a citation. The fact is, many people are not really
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Please also note, that in the past there were some ongoing discussions regarding notability etc of these articles and the result yielded for these articles to remain as such. The truth is that the community did not contributed as much as it should, maybe because of the notion that "since the articles
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I would also like to add that FISU's method of teaching meditation for
Spiritual Unfoldment are unique in the world. They have taught over 100,000 people in the UK and a similar amount in America plus many thousands more in European countries and Autralia. I totally disagree that Knowledge would be
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Thousands of people practise this everyday, in a daily basis. Thousands of people want to practise this, but don't know how. From the beginning of the existence of the human race, people have been searching. People will always be searching. People have the right to search for their inner self. Their
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No
Rozenkreuz what you discussed is the validity of the spiritual unfoldment(read your very first comments at the top)where you say: "Knowledge would be a much better place without this article..." and about a chap who came with this idea. I think your comments shows a prejudice on our organisation.
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Hello, i don't think it should be removed since it's been practiced by thousands of people who have seen these benefits. Also, as for the benefits of meditation concern shortly links will be added from medical articles proving these theories. How can
Gururaj Ananda Yogi be removed from here when his
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I disagree. I find the desultoriness of jumping into such conclusions rather disappointing. If the search is performed without the quotes then the results are tens of thousands. Just because there is not an exact matching, (as this diversity was already mentioned), it does not mean that the same /
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OK, it's true that we could spare both epithets and passive-aggressive stands. It seems that all speak but none actually listens to each other, so I only have a definite comment to make, at least for now. If we look at the history of the articles in question; when they were first created they were
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No that's not the case Kesh. In the 'Books and References' section the books 'In Tune with the Infinity', 'Wholeness and the Implicate Order' and 'The Undivided Universe' are secondary sources because their authors don't perform the practice. Especially the last two books approach this philosophy
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Article about some strange meditation technique. It would appear to have been mentioned in two newspaper articles, but I don't think that constitutes notability. It is also written in some garbled language which bears only the most superficial resemblance to English: 'The principles of the Path
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The English in the article is indeed mangled, but that is no indicator of the conceptual depth of the topic; it is the product of someone who cannot speak the language properly. If the language was, as you say, 'reviewed' by native English speakers, then they are either lying about their home
769:, he has authored four books and his lectures were extensively recorded. Media interviews can be verified by accessing the archives of the radio, TV stations etc; likewise about symposia and conferences. There is an effort to retrieve more detailed information (dates etc). Finally, regarding
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we should have an article, we need one and not three or five, otherwise it does seem to be a walled garden. "Foundation for International Spiritual Unfoldment" scores one gnews archive hit, a short advertorial piece in the Evening Standard. "Gururaj Ananda Yogi" scores none. Most mentions of
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Nope. no lying here. I really have no reason for that, I wouldn't waste my time in lying, I prefer doing things that I believe I enjoy much more than that. In the meantime, a team including myself are trying to be constructive and update the pages in question, in order to clear things
1424:. 12 Google resultes for some kind of ... new age neologism? Mail order course? I could see this being mentioned in it's parent article, but there is a disproportionate amount of linking and vanity-advert symptomatic crap at the bottom of the article, which is strongly discouraging.
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Many of the arguments above are irrelevant--the virtues of this method are not at issue. The material is documented and with enough documentation to show that it is notable. I do have some doubts about the individual national societies, which should probably be merged in here.
1444:. It is most unfair to spend half a minute for a mere hasty and non deictic Google search where others have spent so much more time and effort into this. People can also understand an argument without the use of the word "crap"; not exactly the most helpful thing. Thank you.
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About the lacking of media references, there are references regarding this article (and the other related articles), but those I personally have are not properly dated. There was a request for the community to help, as myself and other mates are sorting out the references.
1362:. I do agree though that a careful examination proves the articles worthwhile to be kept and with sufficient references. If not everybody sees this in the same manner it is a matter of point of view and on that point of view we are discussing about. cheers...
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The mind is a Universe. Meditation can be used as a vehicle to explore and understand it. To go through all the layers and reach the "Source", the "Oneness", the "Wholeness". The source will help to bring stability into the mind, to achieve all that seems
1393:, importance is a relative term and differs between individuals. The article is sufficiently sourced and could be of interest to people from a broad audience, who might wish to seek information on spiritual unfoldment from a respected source. Thank you
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is a distinct method of meditation. FISU, as an organization, only utilizes this method. So these notions constitute two distinct issues, therefore it is suggested not to be merged but to be kept as two distinct articles. FISU's article will expand.
1354:: this is a discussion, not an attack. The expressed point here is clear and everybody can realise it too, without needing the "no-ideas" and the "you-come-heres". If someone sees things differently, it's a matter of opinion. Apparently your's is "
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Unfortunately I will have to disagree with the crude labeling. This "language" that is used in the specific article text was reviewed by native English speakers that share common interest into Meditation for Spiritual Unfoldment and was approved.
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Now that is mentioned, it's useful to let know that whereas certain of these organizations are related / loosely related to each other, some others are not related to each other at all (not to say "alienated"). I also stress that these 3 articles
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If you consider as "garbled language" which bears "only the most superficial resemblance to English" as anything you do not comprehend and share, it is, again, your own right and opinion. Maybe you will consider "garbled language" what it says
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Hi , i saw this and i thought i should drop my thoughts. FISU has helped many people fix their lives with spiritual unfoldment and it would be a shame not be included here for someone that heard about it and thought to search for it in here !
412:? Please note that the translation of eastern texts and notions in English is indeed a "tricky" business. You would be amazed what obscure words and sentences are used by scholars in order to accurately transfer the meaning e.g. from ancient
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This is already an existing opinion that consider "all these things from the east" as "strange", especially in the western world. You may share that opinion as well and this is respected. Nevertheless, it's a personal opinion.
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texts to English. As a prominent example of "garbled language", please see the translations of Thomas Cleary on ancient Zen documents - and Thomas Cleary is a recognized leading authority on ancient Zen transcripts.
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We will just have to deal with this as well, no matter how long it will take; it's just a matter of time because the determination to set things straight will not deteriorate. In the meantime, why not be amused in
634:, no claim of notability in the article, questionable whether existing sources are enough to provide verifiability. The first "reference" is from UKPRwire, and is just the group's promotional release, not a
516:'s "spurious references to well-known thinkers" then you are most welcomed to express it and if you still wish to call me a liar, then please do because it's really not something I consider harmful for me.
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These articles have been on Knowledge only for a while. If you guys give us the chance to have some time we can prove you that it will worth it. Are we in war here? Or are we trying the best for a good
1183:. The comments posted in this space should be connected with what is written in the articles and giving specific reasons based on that content supporting or not supporting their deletion. Regarding
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If you don't understand what a meditation organization is all about and how it works how can you judge of what we are trying to do here. All your comments shows your confusion about the subject.
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with the term "Spiritual unfoldment". There was much time devoted for this, so please devote a reasonable amount of time to carefully review the additions before posting comments.
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is a scientist (quantum physicist) who tried to approach the practice from the scientific point of view. How can you say he is a practitioner. Bohm and Trine are definitely an
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Article may need some more secondary sources to become a good article, but its a servicable article as it stands. And the sock puppetry is not helping your case guys -
1191:. There are a lot of sources, references, books, wikipedia links added of variable relation, but many of them (especially other wikipedia articles) directly relate
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Substance is of the essence. Beeing aquainted with the methods and teachings of Gururaj Ananda Yogi and the wast library of spiritual teachings as can be found at
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If you find this meditation technique "strange", then probably you may find all meditations techniques "strange" if you have never practiced meditation.
757:; most state this in their website, few are needed to be contacted if verification is needed. Note that these organizations do not have any link with
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I will come back to the discussion in the light of the new content that will be added in the next 24 hours, or if someone wishes to help us out.
683:- Non-notable practice, no secondary sources referenced. Part of a walled garden of articles. Not to mention it reads rather like nonsense. --
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were "approved" once, updating is not so urgent". But is seems that we need to update them ASAP, in order to avoid future misunderstandings.
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from the scientific point of view. Yet don't forget that the primary sources used here represent thousand of people around the globe. Only
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more carefully, because that article as well displays some "spurious references to well-known thinkers". If you do not agree with
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source. From where do you base your comment? Please support your comment because i don't see any relation to be a primary source.
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has 60 centres in 9 countries and it continues growing very fast. As for the merging of the individual societies DGG,
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So, whoever wants to delete any articles is most welcomed to do it. For two long years we have been fighting with the
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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notable. And what is being discussed here is the notability, not the validity, of spiritual unfoldment.
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965:) and use this as a basis for commenting. I believe now they are much better and are good enough to be
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Furthermore, Gururaj Ananda Yogi wasn't the "chap" that "came up with the idea". At least please check
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and tell them that some "chaps" managed to deceive them with their "indeed garbled language".
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e plan to post many more article and newspapers write us from over the years to prove our case.
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inner Truth. Give them a chance to find a way do so. Show them the way if they search for it.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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749:, at least 10 meditation societies / organizations from various countries say that they use
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I am terribly sorry for the misconceptions and the prejudiced language that was used.
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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k... so, please review the ongoing additions and modifications in the articles (
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969:(still not perfect, but good enough for at least not to be deleted). Cheers.
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In this debat I wish to contribut with a citation from Gururaj Ananda Yogi:
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The substantial coverage in reliable third-party sources, as required by
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Greetings. This is regarding the initial comments of the debate, by user
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are not just some "chaps that came up with this idea" of Unfoldment.
1033:'s). Each entity (person or organization) can use the teachings of
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has many citations. When it was originally proposed for deletion,
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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sources talking about the practice and/or its organization. --
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profile is accepted by Knowledge terms in the spanish version?
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and more changes on the way, on this and the other articles.
165:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
330:"Spiritual Unfoldment" appear to deal with the unrelated
1280:, insufficient notability as per Rosenkreuz's comments.
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http://www.fisu.org/acatalog/Gururaj_Ananda_s_Tapes.html
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FISU (Foundation for International Spiritual Unfoldment)
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FISU (Foundation for International Spiritual Unfoldment)
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1374:, no assertion of importance (to avoid the n-word). —
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complaints form ("Dissatisfied with our decision?")
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Gururaj Ananda Yogi
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
457:Thank you. Apologizing for any discomfort caused.
262:more links will be added to verify its notability.
1466:). No further edits should be made to this page.
632:Weak delete pending citation of further sources
397:. I hope this helps to clear up some things.
185:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
155:among Knowledge contributors. Knowledge has
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256:http://es.wikipedia.org/Gururaj_Ananda_Yogi
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1187:, I believe now it's OK to be
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432:. People and movements like
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571:few or no other edits
549:All love and Namaste
532:UK Registered Charity
481:few or no other edits
382:few or no other edits
344:neutral point of view
310:few or no other edits
284:few or no other edits
1415:outside this topic.
1346:outside this topic.
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832:outside this topic.
801:outside this topic.
726:outside this topic.
674:outside this topic.
626:outside this topic.
583:provide a citation).
573:outside this topic.
483:outside this topic.
389:On the other hand...
384:outside this topic.
312:outside this topic.
286:outside this topic.
1035:Gururaj Ananda Yogi
767:Gururaj Ananda Yogi
755:Gururaj Ananda Yogi
169:by counting votes.
148:not a majority vote
818:Spiritualbutterfly
810:Spiritualbutterfly
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1243:SantoshMattsson
1235:SantoshMattsson
636:reliable source
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1360:so does mine
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219:sockpuppetry
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1411:) has made
1342:) has made
1319:Strong Keep
1253:) has made
1226:strong keep
1215:) has made
1170:) has made
1143:No Deletion
1133:) has made
1111:independent
1096:) has made
1086:Mpouzouki21
1078:Mpouzouki21
1064:) has made
999:independent
989:) has made
941:) has made
921:strong keep
910:) has made
828:) has made
806:No deletion
797:) has made
743:No deletion
722:) has made
693:No Deletion
670:) has made
622:) has made
569:) has made
479:) has made
380:) has made
308:) has made
282:) has made
1426:Salad Days
1107:David Bohm
860:it did not
777:. Cheers,
593:Rosenkreuz
514:Unfoldment
510:Unfoldment
491:Rosenkreuz
430:Unfoldment
395:Rosenkreuz
340:verifiable
258:. For the
153:discussion
128:Rosenkreuz
1295:Weak Keep
1286:speak up!
1270:Sandstein
1123:Damianosk
1115:Damianosk
900:Damianosk
892:Damianosk
712:Damianosk
704:Damianosk
612:Damianosk
604:Damianosk
370:Damianosk
362:Damianosk
272:Damianosk
264:Damianosk
209:canvassed
203:canvassed
162:consensus
1409:contribs
1340:contribs
1251:contribs
1213:contribs
1168:contribs
1131:contribs
1094:contribs
1062:contribs
987:contribs
939:contribs
908:contribs
826:contribs
795:contribs
745:. About
720:contribs
668:contribs
620:contribs
589:de facto
567:contribs
477:contribs
442:Buddhism
438:Einstein
414:Sanskrit
378:contribs
306:contribs
280:contribs
241:username
235:{{subst:
229:username
223:{{subst:
213:username
207:{{subst:
197:username
191:{{subst:
122:and the
111:View log
1446:MarekTT
1364:MarekTT
1358:", and
1352:Comment
1262:Delete.
1205:MarekTT
1197:MarekTT
1054:MarekTT
1046:MarekTT
979:MarekTT
971:MarekTT
852:Comment
787:MarekTT
779:MarekTT
735:Sfacets
660:MarekTT
652:MarekTT
559:MarekTT
551:MarekTT
528:success
469:MarekTT
461:MarekTT
205:users:
84:protect
79:history
1422:Delete
1401:Cosh39
1395:Cosh39
1372:Delete
1278:Delete
1105:Kesh,
775:let be
731:Delete
681:Delete
360:cause?
351:(Talk)
319:Delete
298:Fisuuk
88:delete
46:DELETE
1376:xyzzy
1332:Adimi
1324:Adimi
1160:Adimi
1152:Adimi
931:Jacha
864:about
700:check
696:Check
640:Barno
183:Note:
105:views
97:watch
93:links
16:<
1405:talk
1391:Keep
1356:Keep
1336:talk
1282:Slac
1266:WP:N
1247:talk
1209:talk
1189:kept
1164:talk
1127:talk
1090:talk
1058:talk
1037:and
1031:FISU
1027:here
1025:and
1023:here
1019:here
1003:Kesh
983:talk
967:kept
963:here
961:and
959:here
955:here
951:keep
935:talk
904:talk
878:Keep
868:Kesh
837:keep
822:talk
791:talk
771:FISU
759:FISU
716:talk
698:and
685:Kesh
664:talk
616:talk
563:talk
544:here
473:talk
410:here
374:talk
336:WP:N
302:talk
276:talk
101:logs
75:talk
71:edit
1440:all
856:now
843:DGG
581:can
546:?
504:up.
327:Iff
237:csp
233:or
225:csm
193:spa
167:not
109:– (
50:Doc
48:. -
1407:•
1399:—
1338:•
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440:,
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376:•
368:—
346:.
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270:—
243:}}
231:}}
221::
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189::
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1403:(
1380:n
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113:)
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69:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
