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doesn't. We're talking about a part of limited, specific system, not every single foot of pavement. Here's a more valid comparison, look at the thousands of little podunk towns that have just one source, census data. Those have the same amount of outside coverage and locality as this route. Yet we have thousands of those articles! However, note that those incorporated towns that have articles are all a part of a subset of a much, much larger group of locales--they're incorporated towns, recognized by the state government. We don't have articles on every single crossroads, every single subdivision, every single spot in the state. In both cases, we're talking about a specific group of geographic entities (state highways and incorporated towns) that the state has recognized to be significant enough to place into a specific subset (by numbering or incorporation) out of a larger group (of all of the roads or all of the named locales, subdivisions, etc). --
541:. Note that the latter is route that no longer actively exists. If a state finds a route notable enough to number the route, then it should be considered notable. Using this test is much less arbitary and more consistent; it's either numbered by the state or isn't, as opposed to the myriad reasons given for deleting state route articles in the past. And numbering by the state doesn't change because different people contribute to a AfD. In addition, state highways are found in government reports, atlases, travel guides, etc. Hardly unencyclopedic by any means, and even if it's only borderline encyclopedic,
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notable, but the precedent is lack of consensus and strong dispute that anything, least of all this 2.4 miles of pavement, is automatically notable. The only references anyone has found during this debate are a map and a printout of a bid list, both exceedingly trivial covreage. Lots of improvements costing $ 600,000 like the bid shown are also not notable, even if the government paid for them and they bear a number. Firetrucks and airplanes cost that much and also have numbers, but we do not have an article for every individual one.
1239:. Most of these articles are sourced and referenced. There are WikiProjects for many states' highways. The Minnesota goverment decided long ago that highways were important enough to be laid out in the Constitution. If state highway articles did not belong here, the very first ones would have been deleted long ago. Why is this just now coming up? The "road is too short" argument is ridiculous. How long is long enough? How about we delete all municipality articles if their population isn't high enough? --
679:. State highways are part of the main skeleton in a state's road infrastructure and valid enough topics in covering the transport system. Trying to establish a minimum length for notability will be an arbitrary condition, so we are better off just keeping all of the numbered highways. The number of short numbered highway sections are not all that overwhelming.
1126:"The mailbox was installed and marked by the U.S. Postal System, for the use of persons wishing to send mail. It is part of the U.S. Postal system, established in the 18th century. It is a part of the main skeleton system of the U.S. Postal Service and a valid enough topic in covering the mail system."
1196:
Looking at your laundry list, of those that are individually designated, I answer yes. Many schools/libraries have articles on WP. All runways are mentioned on their respective airports article. Dormitories are also mentioned on their respective universities article. Many of your examples such as
1128:
The same arguments could be applied to city streets, power pylons, bridges, drainage ditches, salt trucks, school buses, locomotives, railroad tracks, airport runways, undergound pipelines, television masts, fire engines, schools, libraries, dormitories, municipal wells, sewage plants, and all other
981:
even if several editors say "ILIKEIT." There is no policy or guideline which says that all numbered roads in the world are inherently notable. Please do no make unsupported accusations of disruptive editing, as that is incivil. AFD is the appropriate forum for deciding which articles should be kept,
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The state highway series of articles is a good example of the tyranny of the majority, even in a setting that strives for consensus. A large number of people simply believe that all state-designated roads are inherently notable, and so much "precedent" has built up that even in obviously deletable
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3, taken over when old US 52 east of Osakis was given to the counties"? "State highways are part of the main skeleton in a state's road infrastructure and valid enough topics in covering the transport system. Trying to establish a minimum length for notability will be an arbitrary condition, so we
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The 2 sources are only trivial ones: it is on a map. and the state paid a contractor to pave it. Has there been a magazine article about the road's importance to the ecnomy, or about sights you can see along it, or about controversy because of some ecological effect it has? So far its existence is
1181:
The "keep" side keeps using that argument. I do not think it means what you think it means. The argument isn't "there's no room for roads" or "roads aren't a suitable topic.". They're arguing whether or not state highways are notable in and of themselves, without anything else going for them.
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There is no policy that a short connecting road such as this has notability without meeting the requirement of multiple sources which are reliable and which have nontrivial coverage of it as a primary subject. Hiway fans keep claiming there is precedent that a numbered state hiway is inherently
1211:
If there were hundreds of millions of these state routes that were very short like this one, then yes, your mailbox or drainage ditch analogy would prove apt. If
Minnesota labeled every stretch of pavement as a state highway, then your comparison would prove apt. But there aren't, and Minnesota
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If there were a group of mailboxes so important that the state declared them "State mailboxes", numbered them, maintained them, and wrote them into law...then sure. The argument isn't for all roads, it's for a particularly important subset of roads. Regardless of whether or not they're notable
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Knowledge (XXG) is not an indiscriminate collection of information. Sometimes material is submitted that is perfectly factual and verifiable, but falls outside the scope of
Knowledge (XXG). Perhaps this could be placed in a Wiki devoted to every section of pavement in the world, but it does not
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do not require multiple independent reliable sources with substantial (non-directory, non-hiwayfansite, non-statwhiwaymap, non bid-list) coverage. Saying "Highways are all notable" is just another way of saying "ILIKEIT!" and can be discounted in tabulating comments.
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This unreferenced stub about fails to show that it is notable. It is a 2.4 mile (4km) road connecting
Interstate 94 with a small street in a small town. Nothing but a few farms are located on it and apparently nothing of significance has happened on it. It is not a
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infrastructure. They were installed by authorities to benefit the puiblic and given identifying names or numbers. Would you vote to keep all such articles absent independent reliable sources with substantial coverage? Or don't you LIKE them as much as roads?
545:—articles can be created that would not appear in a paper encyclopedia. There's thousands of little small towns that have articles here, yet would not appear in anything but government reports, atlases, gazeteers, etc. Should those be removed as well?--
957:, since (as least currently) the trend seems to be that state routes are notable. I suggest that the people involved in this debate over the notability of highways take it someplace else and discuss just what makes a notable highway
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proved, but there is nothing to show it is of any importance or notability. It looks like there are only about 6 farmhouses located along it, so it is hard to see how it is any more important than a very minor city street.
206:. Nothing has happened on this stretch of road. Expand it with one article on "traffic fatalities" or "nations biggest pothole" to show that something is happening there and I might change my mind.
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A project talk page cannot create policy that the project's subject is notable. And all I find there is Scott5114 stating that they are notable. That cannot by itself suspend the requirements of
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down that road. There's obviously a disagreement on whether or not state routes have inherent notability, and the place to settle that is in dispute resolution, not by throwing out AfDs. --
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The arguments for keeping articles on highways, (some articles are about "highways" as short as 0.3 miles} could be applied as well to mailboxes. Should we have articles on each of them?
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articles like this, keep will always be the default result. See also articles on the haigiography of science fiction and fantasy authors, and the infamous pages of pokemon characters. -
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412:, that certainly has "multiple non-trivial references". Splitting is then an organizational matter that cannot affect whether the information should be on Knowledge (XXG). --
928:, that certainly has "multiple non-trivial references". Splitting is then an organizational matter that cannot affect whether the information should be on Knowledge (XXG)."
421:
That is not what it said a few months ago. During
November, there was no such dispute going on; I have contacted the editor who made the change to see what was going on. --
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not that this will be the consensus, but i think it might begin to be time to start questioning this earlier decision on notability--it must strike any outsider as absurd.
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I may be missing something but the only reason I see given is exactly the one I stated: "the consensus is that all roads are notable, therefore this road is notable."-
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Nor is it helpful to the closing admin to make false claims of
Knowledge (XXG) policies that 'all numbered pieces of pavement are inherently notable' so policies per
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all numbered highways per Scott5114. Dismissing something as "roadcruft" is not providing any meaningful to the closing administrator for consideration.
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and think about whether it would be a good idea to create one article, several hundred kilobytes in size, with information about all the highways. --
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are better off just keeping all of the numbered highways. The number of short numbered highway sections are not all that overwhelming."? "
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is being abused to mean "anything that I think doesn't deserve an article for which I cannot or will not provide an actual reason".
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As stated by others above, numbered highways are notable. Are they any less notable than most of the articles on WP? See specific
856:. This article contains no room for expansion or inclusion of notability; it's just a desolate stretch of asphalt. Indescriminate.
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Wrong. It instead implies that this route is part of the
Minnesota State Trunk Highway system, and therefore is notable. Sure,
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by any stretch of the imagination. There does not appear to be potential for expanding the stub into an encyclopedic article.
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503:. Per above. We would need to find the proof of it being a spur of a larger route. If it is obvious enough yes - merge. •
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326:. If a highway is important enough the state DOT bothered to assign it a number, it's notable enough for Knowledge (XXG). —
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per precedents. The highway was improved and marked by the state for the use of motorists, making it notable. According to
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By the same token, you should be able to throw out the vote above saying "roadcruft", or essentially "I don't like it." --
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Knowledge (XXG) is not a directory. Knowledge (XXG) is not a directory of everything that exists or has existed. Also per
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appear to be notable or encyclopedic. I am not aware of any policy that all sections of pavement are inherently notable.
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How about "The highway was improved and marked by the state for the use of motorists, making it notable. According to
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notability of secondary highways is clear, in a well-sourced and referenced article. This is yet another case where
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Don't mischaracterize the precedents given, please. While the first one is, yes, no concensus, the other two were
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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We've given well-reasoned reasons for the inclusion of such articles. Thus, the majority is being effective. --
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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nomination was disruptive, but if all of a sudden people go on a tear of nominating road articles to prove a
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I just referenced most of it. The creation date can be referenced from old state maps, which I don't have. --
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You fail to see the point here, reasoning is given concerning the notability of highway articles. Also see
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462:. However, that had to do with naming conventions, not notability. Thus, the change should be reversed. --
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It is not disruptive to nominate an article for deletion when it does not satisfy the general criterion
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There are detailed sources about
Minnesota's state highway system, of which this is a part. Please read
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Correct. DGG and
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per above. Articles exist on
Knowledge (XXG) for much more obscure items than a state highway. --
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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power pylons and drainage ditches are not indiviudally identified so making an article. --
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per above, highways are notable. Apparently the precedents page was changed in
November
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enough to include in the encyclopedia, state highways certainly aren't trivial. --
392:"Highways and interstates (major roads and motorways) are, at the moment, disputed."
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means; restricting articles to signed numbered highways is very discriminate. --
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732:? Should that be considered roadcruft and listed on AFD? I don't think so.
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for notability. Lots of things have numbers put on them but are not notable.
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No, I suggest limiting articles to subjects which have detailed sources.
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303:, assuming that this can be verifiably referenced in the next few days.
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3, taken over when old US 52 east of Osakis was given to the counties. --
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Washington State Route 900
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles_for_deletion/Minnesota_State_Highway_91
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and expand. All active state routes are inherently notable. See
1251:, as stated by many before me, ALL state highways are notable.
491:, however, if 127 is considered a minor spur of a larger road.
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is mistaken. The three examples he provides were kept because
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/New Hampshire Route 118
449:, but I can't find whatever discussion is being referenced.
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says, regarding "Transportation and geography" the following:
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Florida State Road 300
965:. We have a lovely dispute resolution process, I hear. --
529:, which is very similar to this case, which the result was
1003:, that would be disruptive, and it seems some people have
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According to the editor (Radiant!), it was a reference to
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WP not being an indiscriminate collection of information
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39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1345:). No further edits should be made to this page.
388:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Precedents
139:Knowledge (XXG):Knowledge (XXG) articles are not
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1303:for same reasoning. Also, we can't delete
131:Knowledge (XXG):What Knowledge (XXG) is not
1271:. Are we running out of server space? --
487:. Highways are notable; I would support a
574:Knowledge (XXG) talk:WikiProject Highways
533:. Moreover, more precedents can be found
363:per V60 et al, but see my comments on
254:How does this have to do with that?
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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1154:Again, like the others said - see "
256:This article is not a travel guide.
869:I don't think you understand what
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924:: we could have a large article,
408:: we could have a large article,
341:and close per Scott5114 and NE2.
926:list of Minnesota state highways
410:list of Minnesota state highways
961:AfD is blasted with a bunch of
728:is very notable, but how about
543:m:Knowledge (XXG) is not paper
204:No Consensus - default to keep
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1156:Knowledge (XXG) is not paper.
1091:Knowledge (XXG) is not paper.
893:Knowledge (XXG):summary style
807:Knowledge (XXG) is not paper.
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1005:already taken the first step
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74:Minnesota State Highway 127
66:Minnesota State Highway 127
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730:Pennsylvania Route 999
258:See my comment below.
212:comment was added by
1086:Constitutional Route
289:Constitutional Route
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637:
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623:
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455:
452:
448:
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406:summary style
403:
402:
401:
398:
393:
389:
386:
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366:
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257:
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96:
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83:
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67:
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56:
48:
40:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
1337:
1334:
1304:
1296:
1280:
1261:Strong Keep.
1260:
1248:
1236:
1213:
1208:
1193:
1125:
1121:
1094:
1063:
1041:
1022:
996:
974:
958:
954:
904:
853:
838:
833:
809:
784:
766:
733:
705:
693:
676:
666:
662:
650:
629:
596:
577:
569:
546:
530:
525:, including
522:
518:
500:
488:
484:
463:
443:
422:
391:
384:
368:
360:
342:
338:
323:
300:
281:
259:
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234:
203:
199:
195:
172:
156:
143:WP:NOT#IINFO
123:
52:
46:
43:
31:
28:
1253:Gateman1997
1237:Strong Keep
460:WP:RFAR/HWY
339:Speedy keep
157:Strong Keep
1285:WP:NOT#DIR
1162:master_son
1096:Rschen7754
1043:Rschen7754
884:Salad Days
858:Salad Days
786:Rschen7754
631:Rschen7754
579:Rschen7754
507:master_son
465:Rschen7754
424:Rschen7754
135:WP:NOT#DIR
1273:Holderca1
1199:Holderca1
1184:UsaSatsui
1141:UsaSatsui
1131:Inkpaduta
1009:UsaSatsui
984:Inkpaduta
967:UsaSatsui
910:Inkpaduta
715:Inkpaduta
698:RFerreira
681:Sjakkalle
626:WP:USRD/P
605:Inkpaduta
397:Inkpaduta
328:Scott5114
305:(jarbarf)
148:Inkpaduta
1289:Alansohn
1241:Sable232
1215:HowardSF
1209:Comment.
1194:Comment.
1105:contribs
1052:contribs
795:contribs
685:(Check!)
640:contribs
588:contribs
548:HowardSF
519:Comment.
493:23skidoo
474:contribs
433:contribs
222:contribs
210:unsigned
200:HowardSF
174:HowardSF
169:and here
127:Route 66
118:View log
1122:Comment
1070:*Edits*
1029:*Edits*
975:Comment
905:Comment
706:Comment
597:Comment
385:Comment
365:WT:USRD
91:protect
86:history
1313:Eagles
1073:*Talk*
1032:*Talk*
959:before
854:delete
805:Plus,
753:Edeans
663:delete
655:Edeans
651:Delete
451:BryanG
235:Delete
214:Clerks
196:Delete
133:says:
95:delete
1322:Tampa
1305:votes
1267:, or
1158:" •
1093:"? --
1001:point
523:keeps
489:merge
112:views
104:watch
100:links
55:Quarl
16:<
1301:here
1297:Keep
1281:Keep
1249:Keep
1101:talk
1064:Dmz5
1048:talk
1023:Dmz5
997:this
979:WP:N
955:Keep
834:Keep
791:talk
762:this
710:WP:N
694:Keep
677:Keep
636:talk
628:. --
601:WP:N
584:talk
576:. --
570:Keep
539:here
537:and
535:here
531:keep
501:Keep
485:Keep
470:talk
444:Keep
429:talk
367:].
361:Keep
324:Keep
301:Keep
282:Keep
237:per
218:talk
165:here
161:here
108:logs
82:talk
78:edit
47:Keep
1316:Fan
935:NE2
897:NE2
875:NE2
668:DGG
414:NE2
314:NE2
293:NE2
241:.
116:– (
1319:In
1311:.
1230:-
1222:-
1182:--
1107:)
1103:-
1054:)
1050:-
933:--
797:)
793:-
642:)
638:-
620:,
616:,
590:)
586:-
563:-
555:-
476:)
472:-
435:)
431:-
375:PD
369:--
224:)
220:•
198:.
189:-
181:-
167:,
163:,
110:|
106:|
102:|
98:|
93:|
89:|
84:|
80:|
1228:C
1226:-
1224:T
1220:U
1218:-
1099:(
1046:(
845:F
843:M
840:T
818:0
815:6
812:V
789:(
773:F
771:M
768:T
742:0
739:6
736:V
634:(
582:(
561:C
559:-
557:T
553:U
551:-
468:(
427:(
372:M
351:0
348:6
345:V
331:↗
268:0
265:6
262:V
228:.
216:(
187:C
185:-
183:T
179:U
177:-
141::
120:)
114:)
76:(
53:—
49:.
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