517:. Indeed, according to Illarionov, "In Russia a new model has been formed for the government, economic and socio-political order – the Power Model (silovaya model’)." "In this model, the entire body of state power has been taken over by a group called the “siloviki”, which includes not only the “siloviki” themselves , but also intelligence service collaborators, members of the Corporation of Intelligence Service Collaborators (Korporatsiya Sotrudniki Spets-Sluzhb) – the KSSS."
1067:. Thus, when describing this phenomenon, people supporting these undercurrents would be more likely to use 'nashi', not feeling the need for such a stress, and people not supporting them -- either out of neutrality or opposition -- would be more likely to use the '-ism' suffix. Consequently, there would be much more negative than positive references to
1520:
Fadeicheva isn't describing the "Nashi" movement, but is describing the three aspects of the ideological framework of "Nashism", the nationalist aspect as represented by the Nashi movement, and also the two other aspects, the chauvinist and racist aspects as well. This isn't my synthesis, the section
142:
Nonnotable
Russian language neologism. There are quite a few Russian language texts from various journalists who use this term "нашизм" (nashism/nashists) for various purposes. All of them are hardly notable and there is no single understanding. And most surely the quoted author is hardly notable for
1062:
My understanding is that this pejorativeness is somewhat built into the term, but in a weird and neutrality-seeking way. As discussed above, 'nashi' alone has specific undercurrents in
Russian political thought. 'Nashism' as a term distances its user from these undercurrents, and stresses the idea
1137:
To begin from the roots, Who says that Polis
Journal has any reputation at all? who says it is peer-reveiwed? What are the credential of the editorial board and reveiwers? Please provide proofs that it has any say in Russian political studies. Yes notability of individual authors is an issue. Any
544:
movement. Their manifesto specifically says something like "russia is centre of union of everything: east and west, christianity, Judaism, Islam, buddhism" (Россия — центр объединения мировых цивилизаций. Восточное и Западное Христианство, Иудаизм, Ислам и Буддизм — все сошлось в России.) In other
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must be expanded to contain section "Ideology", which says it is called "Nashism" and describes it from valid sources, otheriwse the redirect is meaningless. If there is any valid description of the topic, I highly doubt that the current content is re-usable, with the exception of the trivial
585:
Mikka, I agree with you about two things. First, this article is terrible. But it should be improved rather than deleted because the topic is very notable (see below). Second, the exact meaning of the term may differ. But what's the problem? Let's explain this. Actually, the word means a
379:
didn't start its political life with the movement. The term has been used as an indicator of (real or imagined) confrontation between "наши" and "нет наши" for many decades; perhaps centuries. The organisation was named after this old idea, not the other way around, and consequently,
1337:
Ofcourse not, no academic journal is responsible for the views published, their responsbility is in ensuring that the article meets the required academic standard regardless of the view. Peer-review is not ensuring political correctness, but ensuring academic standards.
420:- I don't get it, is it a pejorative to the Nashis? Is it refering to the current group called Nashi, or the older one from the 1990s mentioned in the Nashi article? If an article goes through a week of AfD and can't be clarified, it isn't adding to the encyclopedia.
1448:
applies to the
Knowledge (XXG) article, in no way can this wikipedia article can be considered a personal essay, it's a bit short to be considered an essay, nor is it OR, it cites a reference to a secondary source. You seem to be implying that the cited source is
945:, in contrast, is so far mainly of interest in Russia, thus it is to be expected that its researchers would be unlikely to associate these two concepts -- as might look reasonable to one who views sociological research from far away, like from a background of
1373:
If you do not deny the existance of nashism, why do you want to delete the article? The article is clearly a stub, so ofcourse it may not meet general quality standards, what article stud does? We certainly don't go deleting stubs on the basis of quality.
460:
All of this allows me to talk about the appearance of a new political regime, non-free regime, with "corporatist state", monopolized economy, coercive markets, with ideology of "nashism" (from the
Russian word "nash"—"our own") as its distinctive
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Please aslo do not confuse the words "encyclopedic topic" and "current article". The current article is trash to be deleted. But I will say nothing against, if a new one will be created, following wikipedia's rules about "no original research"
639:
Let me disagree with you on two items. The current article must be deleted, because it is a confusing mess, sourced from a nonnotable journalist with IMO naive views. Second, you are repeating her error. Once again and again: there is
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graduate student can write and publish an article, but people will laugh if you suggest that each of them may make a full wikipedia article. At best, such article may be useful as source of further, more reputable references. `'
1355:
Also you obviously cannot read what "anonymous
Knowledge (XXG) editors" say. They do not deny the exastance of nashism. They say that the article is beyond reasonable standards. (And I say it directly that it is plain false.)
1487:. Who says that fadeicheva describes the "Nashi" movement? It is false statement, not following from her text, as I have already written here. Also, the 3 fantasies of Fadeicheva are already covered by normal English words:
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words, nothing about "selective application of rights", just the opposite: Russia is everything and for all. Please don't attepmt to dive into original research here, digging from blogs and newspapers. Like I wrote there is
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The problem with the artilce is not the term itself, and not its "poor shape". The article 100% fails wikipedia criteria. "Expand" means to delete everything what is written and start from scratch. I am not a supporter of
1053:, and thus sees it important to delete it as threatening the integrity of Knowledge (XXG). I further believe that such a perception is incorrect, and the resulting conclusion is on par with deleting the article on
626:), Russian nationalism and "chekism". But I would need a few days to consult with sources, avoid OR, and improve the article. Should we delete this article now to recreate it later? I do not think so.
910:", while it is 100% self-evident from the programme of Nashi that nashism is jingoism made in Russia: "Russia must be strong, Russia is nexus of civilizations, Russia can make it all alone, etc." `'
1217:, which was already low even before: when I emigrated, I had to jump through quite a few hoops to prove that my Soviet Ph.D. was of any value. (This is an explanation of my scepticism here.) `'
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has a preference for secondary sources such as peer reviewed journals, there is no mention that is must be from a "reputable politologists". The article referenced in Polis
Journal meets the
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movement very carefuly and explicitely excludes any nationalism, fascism and other negative -isms from its programme. Yes, you may define it is a right movement, but not extreme right.
558:
BTW please stop flooding the article with internet references where the word is used. People may use google themselves. wikipedia is not web directory. We need reliable reference which
481:. I can name at least 5 different meanings. Some authors even go to amazing length of essay about the word. Some play pun with "nashism/fascism", others attach it to one of the
443:. Some may consider it is a neologism, but would be a useful search term, since by definition a neologism is a term that is wide use, so support it as a redirect after a merge.
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Please dont' try to read my mind. My reason for deletion is stated crystal clear: the current article is bullshism, the term is a catchy neologism, and I failed to find enough
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Of course, the similarity of names for these phenomena in
English is quite coincidental. However, I have taken your point into account and added the {{for}} reference to
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is not an idiot. Anyway, let us stop this. Votes for deletion is not the place to discuss new articles. I will be happy to help you in your work on a new article, say, in
666:(the ones that have or you would want to have a wikipedia bio). And since there is no one who directly says "Nashism is our ideology", the article must mainly consist of
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says there is such an ideology as nashism. I trust them more than the opinions of essentially anonymous
Knowledge (XXG) editors here as to the existance of nashism.
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criteria. Notability of individual authors is not an an issue, because M. A. Fadeicheva's article was peer reviewed prior to publishing in the journal.
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as an evidence that the term didn't really catch up with solid political analysts, I failed to google any text that contains both words "nashism" and "
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and pages 33, 59, 60 and 205 of "Poverty, Ethnicity, and Gender in
Eastern Europe During the Market Transition" By Rebecca Jean Emigh, Iván Szelényi
404:- Im changing my vote to weak delete. It appears this term is gaining notability very fast. ITs still not a stable commonly understood term tho.--
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mentions current nashism. There are some other English sources/articles using the term (not commenting on the quality or validity as wikisource,
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says it is a publication of the "Russian Political Science Association, the main professional body promoting the study of politics in Russia".
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No they don't. Arguments of this kind are cheating. Polis specifically says that it is not responsible for views published in its articles. `'
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19:54, 6 June 2007 (UTC) But this is not "current article". This article is about ideology that will define Russian politics for many years.
17:
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This is but one usage of the term. And has little if any in common with what is currently in the article. And little in common with
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mentioned above. Nashism is also mentioned on page 27 of Boris Kagarlitskij's book "Restoration in Russia: Why Capitalism Failed"
1292:" that supports Putin but otherwise has no distinctive ideology, and that is fairly adequately covered in appropriate article. --
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1015:. Obviously the article needs further development. I don't understand the call for its deletion, should we delete all article
891:, but an attempt to attribute them "racist 'nashism' that accentuates the anthropological differences" is plain bullshit. `'
293:, per Biophys. While the term is in use, it is not notable enough to warrant its own article - yet. Also, I think I remember
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statement that "Nashism is the ideology of "Nashi" (if it is true). But is it so trivial that non-copyrightable, so to say.
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article and hence more harmful than useful as a stub. If one is going to redirect this article to "Nashi (Ours)" , then the
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Did I mention it's currently mainly a sociological topic and only secondarily -- well, now probably increasingly due to the
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I believe that, based on the -- sometimes, deliberate -- rhyme with 'fascism' and a frequent use in pejorative contexts,
326:- too non-notable now. That may or may or may not change. If it becomes notable, nothing much is lost by starting over.--
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of text in the article is quoted verbatim from the abstract of Fadeicheva's article as published in the Polis journal
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there is no single understanding of the word "nashism". By the way, the article is poorly written and makes no sense.
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and expand. The concept's notability can not be reasonably denied, but the article is currently in a poor shape.
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as such. 'Nashi' not carrying such connotations in English, it might be possible to describe the ideology under
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on me here. My call for deletion is very detailed. I din't say I want it deleted because it is short, did I? `'
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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per nom. A merge suggestion has been posted on the article, and that might make sense, but otherwise it's a
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497:(like Illarioniov wrote, "from the Russian word "nash"—"our own", but who really explained nothing more). `'
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would call for deletion of this article, while at the same working on a parallel article on Nashism here:
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622:. This ideology represents a combination of "sovereign democracy" (this includes "self-reliance" like
658:. I will strongly advise you not to collect usage cases, but to look for solid works that spend some
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1499:. Her theories of "Nashism" is nothing but a fringe theory drawn upon a nodiscriminate buzzword.
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existed and were heatedly discussed as early as in 1962? (and wikipedia already knows that :-) `'
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says that Nashism has been evolving from.... in... bla bla") but with no names red-linked :-) `'
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1180:) which reflects the celebration and review, but not the peer review comment, which in original
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to write a decent article. Casual mentionings in polemic articles do not count as sources. `'
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730:. In Russia, Christians can't even agree upon how many fingers to straighten when making the
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199:. Seems worth a mention on the page, and certainly seems like a logical potential wikilink. --
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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to merge these musing of a nonnotable person. I cound have done it myself, but I stand that
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606:. There is nothing special here. I understand that author of this ideology and movement is
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there, but given than the researchers currently are, and are likely in the future, to use
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Also, it is a sad but fact that scientific level in Russia drastically dropped since the
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523:. Then, the difference between "nashism" and organization "Nashi" is the same as between
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refers to a number of converging ideological stances of varying sources is that the term
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and more), so probably a section in Nashi article and redirect would be best solution.
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519:"The ideology of KSSS is “Nashism” (“ours-ism”), the selective application of rights."
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734:-- despite centuries of haggling! And yet, I don't see you suggesting deletion of
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sociopsychological studies are bound to assign higher significance to the ideology
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of text on the description of the topic (not just casually mention), written by
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around 1990...1992. Googled for term, but couldn't find it - article in Economist
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because "You Christian dog!" happens to be a slur of choice among some people.
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as the predominant term for the topic of research, this would be borderline
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Let's suppose so. Can you answer these simple questions once and for all?
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per Dhartung. Not notable enough on its own but a plausible search term.
1461:: "Secondary sources draw on primary sources to make generalizations or
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rather than merely viewing it as 'whatever the organisation preaches'.
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1531:, page 103 of "Philosophy in Post-Communist Europe" By Dane R. Gordon
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I should point out that the latter page has an English translation (
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under this name. In particular, regarding your "combination": the
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The current text is totally incomprehensible, even after reading
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Merge and redirect might be helpful to the user, so supported.--
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as "Polis Magazine", which might have helped in the confusion.
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Knowledge (XXG) is not the place to propagate her musings. `'
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1241:, seems reputable enough to be listed by British academia.
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is etymologically a relatively new concept, used mostly in
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interpretive, analytical, synthetic, or explanatory claims
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exactly to my point. Many like this pun, but most use it
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is not a long-term stable solution. A primary reason why
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1595:. Why not just simply edit the existing article stub?
1524:. Ofcourse other people use the term nashism such as
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being used about previous, different incarnation of
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1305:However the Russian Political Science Association
1428:, ie it is personal essay, not a research work.`'
726:There is no monolithic ideology behind the label
1617:). No further edits should be made to this page.
930:contexts. A number of Russian sources, such as
779:How many fingers to straighten when making the
747:You are quite mistaken, colleague. There is a
697:One I missed earlier: Ms. Fadeicheva is not a
485:movement, still others use it synonymously to
1102:solid references from reputable politologists
922:You are misinterpreting the search results.
177:, recentism, neologism, {any-party-name}ism.
8:
1453:, if you are, then you are mis-undestanding
1238:Here are details of the Polis Journal here
1190:oh, and by the way, there's a slight change
1160:says the journal instituted peer review in
937:is an uniquely British concept, or British
709:. The article incorrectly refers to Polis
547:no common, single usage pattern of the term
1420:I suggest you to review the definition of
1407:How so? The article cites an appropriate
562:the term by people who are recognized as
1537:. So nashism is hardly fringe theory.
1308:and their peer reviewed journal Polis
751:monolithic ideology behind the label "
1501:She is not quoted by a single source.
228:My whole point that there is nothing
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
64:was a clue he was a Russian agent?
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832:require its followers to be white
143:her version to be wikipedized. `'
1394:. Glaring original research. --
1215:dissolution of the Soviet Union
933:, even go so far as to suggest
454:The word has just been used by
236:is the proper approach here. `'
837:Most importantly of all, does
798:, to be abhorred and rejected?
664:recognized experts in politics
1:
560:explain and scholarly discuss
1049:perceives the article is an
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792:internal combustion engine
566:, not just usage cases. `'
60:'s pseudonym of "Nash" in
1600:11:53, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
1592:, see edit history here:
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1032:Stub deletion: dont trow
78:12:10, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
1610:Please do not modify it.
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830:Does Christian ideology
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32:Please do not modify it.
1459:WP:NOR#Reliable_sources
825:picket funerals of gays
642:no monolythic ideology
515:No merging with "Nashi"
1426:not a single reference
62:From Russia with Love
56:. Did you know that
1590:User:Biophys/Nashism
981:Nashism and Nashists
656:User:Biophys/Nashism
281:Merge & redirect
805:valid according to
668:attributed opinions
234:delete and redirect
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525:Communist ideology
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1422:original research
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960:-- a subject for
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456:Andrei Illarionov
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1273:Nashi (Ours)
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1186:postscriptum
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1055:Christianity
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814:Christianity
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753:Christianity
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728:Christianity
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441:Nashi (Ours)
436:
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406:Alexia Death
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381:
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369:Nashi (Ours)
357:Alexia Death
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328:Alexia Death
323:
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197:Nashi (Ours)
192:
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153:
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54:Nashi (Ours)
49:
45:
43:
31:
28:
1586:юзырь:mikka
1505:юзырь:mikka
1489:nationalism
1430:юзырь:mikka
1358:юзырь:mikka
1322:юзырь:mikka
1219:юзырь:mikka
1140:юзырь:mikka
1106:юзырь:mikka
1051:attack page
1038:юзырь:mikka
985:юзырь:mikka
947:mathematics
912:юзырь:mikka
893:юзырь:mikka
845:, works or
803:indulgences
757:юзырь:mikka
701:; she is a
676:юзырь:mikka
660:real amount
578:юзырь:mikka
568:юзырь:mikka
551:юзырь:mikka
499:юзырь:mikka
495:nationalism
402:Weak delete
260:Petri Krohn
250:history as
238:юзырь:mikka
154:Weak delete
145:юзырь:mikka
1493:chauvinism
1278:Mukadderat
949:, or from
939:chauvinism
928:Anglophone
841:come from
794:a tool of
703:researcher
699:journalist
594:, just as
487:chauvinism
1584:Odd that
1485:synthesis
1294:Ekjon Lok
847:Sola Fide
839:Salvation
604:Manifesto
596:communism
466:Colchicum
461:features.
230:reputable
221:Keresaspa
158:neologism
58:Red Grant
1597:Martintg
1539:Martintg
1470:Martintg
1464:original
1413:Martintg
1376:Martintg
1340:Martintg
1313:Martintg
1243:Martintg
1194:Digwuren
1166:Digwuren
1130:Martintg
1089:Digwuren
1047:Mikkalai
1021:Martintg
1001:Digwuren
979:...that
966:Digwuren
958:movement
935:Jingoism
924:Jingoism
908:Jingoism
879:Digwuren
851:Digwuren
740:Digwuren
715:Digwuren
670:(e.g., "
529:Komsomol
491:jingoism
445:Martintg
437:redirect
422:Smmurphy
386:Digwuren
256:redirect
217:redirect
201:Dhartung
193:redirect
136:View log
50:redirect
1582:Comment
1182:Russian
1081:Nashism
1077:Nashism
1069:nashism
997:Nashism
951:America
943:Nashism
904:Comment
711:Journal
707:history
632:Biophys
628:Biophys
600:fascism
564:experts
533:Biophys
373:Nashism
295:nashism
162:Yechiel
109:protect
104:history
92:Nashism
84:Nashism
1570:ŞůṜīΣĻ
1497:racism
1396:Ghirla
1392:Delete
1063:as an
618:, and
590:and a
475:ad hoc
418:Delete
382:per se
324:Delete
285:delete
268:Delete
248:Delete
175:Delete
113:delete
46:delete
1455:WP:OR
1451:WP:OR
1446:WP:OR
1290:Nashi
1126:WP:RS
1122:WP:RS
1085:WP:OR
1017:stubs
889:Nashi
843:grace
812:Does
796:Devil
790:with
652:Putin
647:Nashi
624:Juche
542:Nashi
483:Nashi
479:-isms
433:Merge
299:Nashi
272:Dimts
258:. --
252:WP:OR
213:Merge
189:Merge
130:views
122:watch
118:links
16:<
1573:¹98¹
1495:and
1162:2001
1065:idea
1013:Keep
875:Keep
801:Are
788:cars
786:Are
749:very
549:. `'
527:and
511:Keep
435:and
377:наши
291:Keep
215:and
205:Talk
191:and
126:logs
100:talk
96:edit
67:Neil
1563:to
977:DYK
705:of
576:.`'
439:to
315:DLX
283:or
195:to
166:Man
134:– (
52:to
1567:.
1491:,
1411:.
1356:`'
1164:.
1087:.
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999:.
964:?
849:?
738:.
614:,
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513:.
458::
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289:.
203:|
160:.
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48:/
953:.
834:?
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783:?
493:/
489:/
431:*
287:.
138:)
132:)
94:(
73:╦
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