1068::) IMO, everything in that post you just made should probably be your opening statement - that you *are* an experienced editor who has read everything there is to read on this subject and who has an intellectual high ground over AFD skimmers who probably just came to defend that cat from that TV show they used to watch (that's not me btw). I know we're not supposed to own articles or anything, but by simply stating your opinion it melds into the chaotic discussion... I think you need to show that you (having absorbed all reliable sources out there) are a reliable source in your own right, and that therefore your opinion holds a lot more ground. It would certainly smooth over your Simpsons-related discussions.--
994:, the masses of plot are taken from the Knowledge articles on the respective episodes, so that part is covered, but the really juicy stuff on character development and history etc. is completely sourced by DVD commentaries... stuff that we will NEVER be able to find via any sort of Google search imaginable (sorry for the hyperbole :D). So I guess to find the article-keeping material, our local video store (if those things are even still around anymore.. my local one closed down recently) is where we should be heading to save this article.--
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448:... and that's just on the first two pages of Google Books results. Some of the references are trivial, but in completely odd places: A Spanish lesson? An Essay Writing treatise? I'm not familiar with the fictional cartoon cat, but it appears to meet the GNG to me, without even trying to look at Google Scholar...
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I've poured my heart into the
Simpsons Wikiproject for almost four years now so yeah when I'm trying to improve Knowledge's coverage of The Simpsons (in this case merging an article that can't stand on its own), it's kind of frustrating when people who aren't involved with the project prevent me and
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I'm perfectly fine with a merge - my only issue with this article is that there's not enough noteworthy real-world information for it to be a stand-alone article. I own quite a lot of
Simpsons books with analysis about the show and as far as I know, none of those analyse anything about the character
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some information). I agree with the nom. I have tried to find reliable, secondary sources for this article in the past but there aren't any that address the subject in detail. It's just trivial mentions. Much of the information currently in the article needs to be cut out as it is just plot material
972:
True... true..... as I researched, I did get the feeling that there was only enough info for a paragraph. But my point is that there should be a paragraph and no less... i.e. this page should not get deleted. So I am right. The topic is notable, just not information-loaded-enough to require its own
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No. I'm getting to that now. It's like saying: "well, i'm pretty sure cat is notable... and hey, its cool that cat is a subsection of animal, which is notable, which is a subsection of creature, which is like totally notable!! :)". Here are the sources that I found for
Snowball (NOTE: this is not a
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though I agree with the senitiment of the nominator, the cat is showing up everywhere. We should really have some article rescue going on though, before the article gets off the chopping block, i.e. adding sources, and making sure that the sources we are finding are adequete to maintain notability,
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Ahhh... should've guessed by your name and all that you're an expert on this and are probably getting rather frustrated at all the noobiness :D. Wasn't trying to be difficult or anything. I'm just one of those innocent until proven guilty kinda guys and was making sure we covered all bases before
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and other minor
Simpsons characters who have their own pages, the cat(s) in this article have been largely background characters with only a very low number of episodes in which they play any importance at all. In fact, two of the four cats written about appeared only in a single episode, and a
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and I voted delete/merge here. These characters are different in that there actually sources that talk about the dog in detail, making
Development, Reception, and Influence sections possible. An article like that couldn't be written about Snowball. The fact that the cat is a part of the Simpson
1026:! An article like that couldn't be written about Snowball since there is basically no Development, Reception, or Influence information available about her! Go ahead and rent the DVDs, you won't find anything useful there. I've listened to every commentary track at least twice.
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All but two of those sources are trivial mentions. The others just mention what happened in one of the show's episodes. So I wouldn't say the subject meets the GNG. And here's no "real-world" information at all. You can't just have an article comprised only of plot information
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This article cites no sources, and is literally just a plot summary of five fictional cats. There is no real world context (creation, development, reception, etc.), and it has been tagged with the in-universe tag since 2009. It may be a plausible search term, so I think a
826:
on your part. I merely explained that imo, Snowball is a notable (series of) cat(s), that happens to be part of a notable family, which hails from a notable tv show. Nothing more, nothing less. Now, the notability of the cat(s), I am willing to admit is up for debate...
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A lot of those sources are unreliable, particularly further down the list (in fact one of them is a
Knowledge mirror). The others are passing mentions of the cat(s) that are completely useless for this article, and/or just plot summaries.
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Snowball - they just mention her when talking about the plot of certain episodes. The book sources you found I would say are reliable. But fansites such as #11, 13, and 14 are not. #10 is a
Knowledge mirror so that can't be used either.
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article. (btw if we had access to "The
Simpsons analysis books" previews via GoogleBooks (which we hardly - if ever- do) I'm sure we'd have enough info for a full article, but I'm just speculating, so I guess I'll have to cope with a
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fanpage. Nobility is not inherited, so it doesn't matter how popular the show is. There are no sources available for this topic, except for trivial mentions and plot details. How this is not being understood is beyond me.
715:. Just because it isn't the best article doesn't mean it doesn't belong. It's a regular character in a long-running popular TV show. Of course it merits an article. It should be improved, not removed. --
956:
If you combine all noteworthy information about this cat that can be gathered from reliable secondary sources you have about one paragraph of text and therefore this cannot be a stand-alone article.
55:. This is quite a close call, but there seems to be quite a bit more policy-based discussion based around a Merge here. Even some of the Keep comments also indicate some agreement with a merge.
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375:: The difference between this article and Santa's Little Helper, is that the latter actually contains real world context, making it a notable subject. Just because the subject is notable to
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612:. Most of the Snowballs are not notable enough for their own article, but a couple of them are. A merge would also be acceptable, but deletion would be a removal of valuable information.
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You're ignoring the presence in places *unrelated* to the
Simpsons--those references demonstrate real world impact, even if they are trivial mentions; that's why I included them.
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large portion of this article is merely a plot summary of that one episode. However, I think it would be perfectly fine to expand the section on the cat(s) already present at
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the other members of the project in our work. That's why some of my comments here sound a bit negative. But I'm glad you were willing to take part in a discussion. :)
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and too detailed. And since there aren't any sources that can be used for "Development" and "Reception" sections, this article really should be directed to
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581:. I disagree with the Santa's Little Helper comparison, the dog is legitimately a main character, and has had multiple episodes centered around him.--
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There simply isn't enough info to write a good article about
Snowball. If you take a look at the sources you listed you will see this for yourself.
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to me - you're not sure if the cats meet the notability guidelines, but you think they are notable because they are a part of a notable family.
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Well he/she said delete and redirect and merge, so he/she probably meant merge the info, blank the page, and redirect it to Simpsons family.
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sources when you search for them, most are extremely trivial. As in, literally, many of them are just mentions in trivia books. Unlike
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Knowledge doesn't support articles consisting of plot summaries and trivial mentions. If it did, we'd have far too many pointless ones.
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980:. Oh, and if you wouldn't mind, for those who want to help with the merge, can you point out which of those sources are bull please?--
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Can you give reason to make them notable? Trivial mentions in a book does not meet the GNG. Nor does a plot summary. There are
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No one said anything about deletion. Even in my description of why it's not notable on the very first line, I clearly wrote
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nonetheless). This is a notable family member of a very notable family of a very notable animated series.--
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going in for the kill. You have totally convinced me. A merge it is. :D (btw, great work on SLH!)--
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1142:... which in retrospect actually sounds a lot like a redirect.... hmmm... I see your point.. :D--
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The Simpsons in the Classroom: Embiggening the Learning Experience With the Wisdom of Springfield
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Actually, Theleftorium's original proposal was delete/redirect. I was referring to his
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The Godfather Was a Girl - makes allusions to Animal Farm in pages not in the preview
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with some of the more notable information here, and leave this page as a redirect.
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732:: Your rationale is irrelevant. As I've said; just because it is important to
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in the article. If you are pushing for a 'keep', please give reason.
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does not make it notable to Knowledge; this is not a fansite for
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions
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Top 10 Segments From 'The Simpsons' Treehouse Of Horror
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family isn't important as notability is not inherited.
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list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions
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Actually, new argument: looking at the references for
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874:1,001 Things You Always Wanted To Know About Cats
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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306:list of Television-related deletion discussions
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281:Note: This debate has been included in the
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923:Alan's Simpsons minor characters database
778:(sorry... I had to do that..... :D, but
632:Some are notable, and at the very lest,
335:. Failing that, the article should be
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855:complete list of sources out there).
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18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
886:Fundamentals of Animal Science
691:. No need to remove info, so.
383:, but rather an encyclopedia.
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822:was the case at all. That's
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683:Actually, I'll go with a
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1212:Please do not modify it.
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801:What exactly makes her
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341:redirected
57:Black Kite
1217:talk page
975:merge to
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50:merge to
37:talk page
1219:or in a
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478:Jclemens
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235:redirect
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123:View log
39:or in a
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730:Comment
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373:Comment
168:WP refs
156:scholar
96:protect
91:history
929:search
914:(also
524:Sadads
337:merged
231:Delete
140:Google
100:delete
824:WP:OR
785:Merge
694:TBran
685:merge
643:TBran
636:into
634:merge
606:merge
571:Merge
537:Merge
352:Dough
239:merge
183:JSTOR
144:books
128:Stats
117:views
109:watch
105:links
16:<
1171:talk
1148:talk
1134:talk
1126:/her
1101:talk
1074:talk
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1000:talk
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833:talk
827::D--
793:talk
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