753:. The argument about first-woman-Muslim-pilot-India is spurious. The question is not whether this is a notable combination but whether it has created notable discussion in reliable sources. Claims have been made in these AfDs, but no such notable discussion has been added to the article. As such, the article in its present form is not supportable, but I don't know if that is just bad wiki skills on the part of its supporters. In essence, the article needs to explain
1117:). Over here, the claim that she is "one of the few Muslim woman pilots in India". If a person is solely known for this, then it is a BLP1E. (If you look at the examples I gave above on a certain "Casey Shomaker", you will realise that we should not create an article on that individual). Often newspapers interview people and publish articles - (for example
822:, but if so then the content should be merged elsewhere or moved to draft space, it should not be summarily deleted. For what it's worth, the "first" issue is also an irrelevance. maybe she was factually first in some aspect or other, maybe not, the claims are widespread and can safely be sourced as claims.— Cheers,
1221:
Disagree. If she's in the news, she's notable. She passes GNG. There is a lot of edit warring going on with this. We've hashed it out in the other AfDs and to have another is really in bad taste. Two sources say she's the first Indian woman Muslim pilot. That's been inspirational to others over time
961:
This is ridiculous. The subject of the article passes GNG. I think the amount of times the article has been listed for deletion is insane. This is borderline harassment, feels like an edit war and is certainly a waste of everyone's time. It's very WP:IDON'TLIKEIT. I'm adding citations to the article
1034:
it can be proved that event is notable. The problem is that her claim to fame "that in March 2015 she was (possibly the only) a Muslim woman employed by SpiceJet" is actually not a claim to fame. In the previous AfD I showed that she is "NOT the first Muslim woman pilot in India" which might have
404:
does not seem to support this. For notability we look for coverage in multiple, independent, reliable sources (and in this case find it). We do not substitute our own views of what is important. The existence of the coverage is was matters – the reason for the coverage is not of primary concern.
1206:
reliable here. To be honest, this is a low profile individual who got interviewed, the newspapers published inaccurate claims using her name and then she disappeared from view. The fact that the subject had to clear her name, speaks volumes about the source articles. Not only is this BLP1E, the
374:
I put those so-called biased sources back into the article. A source can be biased and still be reliable. If she was any other religion, I am sure no one would be worried about
Islamic sources. It is natural for people of Islamic faith to write about Muslim women. I expect to see articles about
1150:
The nominator has clearly opened this third AfD in bad faith. The last AfD closed with no consensus a month ago, and the nominator's response was "the article wasn't notable then and it isn't notable now." That constitutes a blatant rejection of the previous closing and of the obvious lack of
491:
Well, I see that some substantial sources have been removed without discussion but that is merely an example of biassed editing and does not affect whether the individual is notable. We are concerned with what coverage exists, not what has been allowed to remain in the article.
1240:
The article contained a bunch of stuff about
Islamophobia and stuff about how her family treated her. Keeping false claims in the encyclopaedia harms not only the encyclopedia but also the subject. Ultimately, this is a low profile individual. Not only does
1207:
article contained inaccurate claims about the subject such which should have been removed considering this is a BLP. I'm sorry, but this article is about someone who is hardly notable and actually does a disservice to the subject. --
1098:
and it says she has been flying for 18 months as a commercial pilot. And, without claiming she was the first at anything, the paper sees fit to write about her with a biography. I find it very hard to follow the BLP1E argument.
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Fails GNG when all biased pro-Islamic references are removed out for also being non-RS. The false propaganda of "first female Muslim pilot" was struck in previous AFD discussion. Refer supporting references there.
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the first-woman-Muslim-pilot-India is so significant and to cite sources for that explanation. I also agree that the canvassing for this new AfD appears biased and should be investigated by an Admin. — Cheers,
1343:). Mainly I'm not voting because this still could be biased (because of the number of users pinged for Delete compared to the Keep) and per SusunW comments, it would be better to just TIO or better move on.
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811:, 8 March 2015; "Said to be Karnataka’s first Muslim woman pilot, Saarah has defied religious and gender stereotypes." and here is the HuffPost giving background to the gender context:
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although the extent to which they contribute towards notability is reasonably debatable. It must be a nightmare editing articles in this topic area! Best wishes to all concerned.
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please do not ping me further on this article. The number of times this article has been nominated for deletion is like an edit war run amuck. Time is better spent elsewhere.
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Also GNG is not a free pass to an article. The spirit of the guideline is more important than the letter of the guideline. GNG is supposed to be used in the context of
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the article and removed non-independent, non-reliable sources present in it. There are only two sources present there now and that is not what multiple is. §§
1292:– Don't ping me about this article and (possibly) future nominations please, I'm agreeing with SusunW and Drmies. If you can, I would suggest all of you to
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Yes, but as well as a probably weak initial article there has been a lot of removal of sources recently, combined with tagging that sources are required.
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Also, I note that all of the users pinged as "involved" voted "delete" at the previous AfD. I don't have time right now, but someone should notify the
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1121:). The deccan herald source is also such an interview. I'm also about the reliability of the articles saying that she is the "first" or "only" when
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and I don't see him coming up with anything to substantiate his claim. The article should stay and please do not ping me for this topic. Thanks,
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She also clarified that she never claimed as a first Muslim woman pilot in India but one amongst the few Muslim women pilots.
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or such as per the previous AfD. Current content and the previous AfD research, especially that by Lemon Girl, should be
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Adog, I would have participated anyway, because I regularly participate in AfD discussions relating to topics on women.
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1263:. On the other hand the truth of the claims is less significant than the amount of media interest they have generated:
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are both long-established daily newspapers in India: simply asserting that they are not reliable does not make it so.
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It's less than two months since the previous AfD was closed as no-consensus. What has changed in that time? The
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Jewish women in the
Jerusalem Times and Mormon Women in the Deseret News, for the same reason. Please see
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1296:(Take it outside) please. Also, pinging users with prior knowledge of previous stances could result in a
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Per the last deletion discussion. Since nothing has changed, please feel free to read my comments there.
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Which I have no problem with, I meant that for the people who were pinged first (because it's clearly a
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is the article at a possibly high point for referencing. Personally I don't see the benefit removing
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Muslim pilot in Indian aviation sector". Has no encyclopedic value. Pinging involved users
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consensus in the community. This third AfD shouldn't have even been opened. Also pinging
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been a notable claim to fame. But the present claim is unfortunately not notable. --
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1416:(again). Current nominator does not cite any policies in rationale. Article meets
570:. Nothing needs to change. The page was non-notable then and non-notable now also.
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1267:. What we have here is essentially a poster child for a notable topic. — Cheers,
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which is guideline). In cases of BLP1E, we might have an article on the subject,
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814:. There is more out there to be found. One might argue that the article comes
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http://www.siasat.com/news/i-never-said-any-such-thing-islamophobia-875778/
981:
as this is clearly WP:IDON'TLIKEIT. Earlier, Dharmadhyaksha claimed it a
1360:
Understood. I just want it to be clear for others reading the AfD. :)
944:
said. Also I do not wish to see this article deleted. Move on, folks.
721:
with a small para about India would be sufficient enough for now. §§
1119:
this guy who was invited to
Knowledge (XXG)'s prestigious teahouse
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Please provide those "multiple, independent, reliable sources". §§
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
1300:; as to why I'm not participating as others shouldn't either.
1163:
as the previous closers, you two deserve to be aware of this.
1065:. A certain "Casey Shomaker" would probably pass GNG by these
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The nomination claims the information is not encyclopedic but
1420:. Article could use clean up and expansion, not deletion per
1123:
she has herself clarified that she never made any such claims
1385:
Again. And yes, TIO. And ANI if it gets nominated again.
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apply here, it is also a BLP issue with all these claims. --
1077:. That's doesn't mean we create an article on the person. --
1189:
1178:
Comment on "first Muslim woman" / "only Muslim woman": See
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Please read the article and you will be able to find them.
1399:
as per above keep arguments. And yes ANI if renominated.--
1259:"If she's in the news, she's notable" is not correct, see
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Articles for deletion/Saarah Hameed Ahmed (3rd nomination)
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Articles for deletion/Saarah Hameed Ahmed (2nd nomination)
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Update: Here is an RS explaining the religious context:
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I have no objection to starting a new article about
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1198:I'm just wondering if we should actually consider
1222:and she's made the news. That makes her notable.
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1490:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1095:But one of the reports is from 19 October 2013
691:I think this article should be replaced with
280:list of Aviation-related deletion discussions
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902:Note: This debate has been included in the
882:Note: This debate has been included in the
309:Note: This debate has been included in the
278:Note: This debate has been included in the
904:list of People-related deletion discussions
843:Pinging to counteract unbalanced canvassing
688:I do not like the biased canvassing at all.
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884:list of Islam-related deletion discussions
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311:list of India-related deletion discussions
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85:Articles for deletion/Saarah Hameed Ahmed
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983:propaganda spread by pro-muslim sources
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18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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1022:which is precisely there because of
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1115:Knowledge (XXG):What is one event
635:Fouetté rond de jambe en tournant
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1113:An event could be anything (See
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1018:The problem is that this is a
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591:per Dharmadhyaksha. --
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