1086:, I get "about 200 results", many of which support the dune interpretation; but there are also plenty that just refer to rates of deposit. No search I have tried retrieves anything like the phenomenon discussed by this article. To the extent the sources support anything, they support the dune definition; but the mentions are bordering on trivial, and I don't see how an article could be built from them.
384:- yeah, after a fairly extensive search I've not found anything by way of significant coverage. There's a bit about similar underwater phenomena (by which I mean a number of passing mentions and photos in dive magazines and sea floor geology books) but not much about the subject described in the article. Happy to consider any sources anyone can find but for now...
226:
I wrote this article and it wasn't written around the image. There are many images on the web depicting the process, but not in public domain. I think calling in a geology and landform specialist might be a good idea. As an aside @ Pburka, I don't think it's proper to alter the content of an article
787:
and create a subsection - Difficult to see that 'Sandfall' is a synonym of 'Dune' or 'slipface'. 'Sandfall' is more of a process than a landform - a dune is simply one of the many places where it may be seen, in the same way that a waterfall may occur on a mountain, but is not synonymous with it.
1157:
for now, then, with appropriate disclaimers as suggested above and with no restriction on recreation over redirect if/when clearer and more substantive sources can be found. If better sources can be found for the phenomena detailed in the article (in the future) then it can always be forked out
543:, the downwind side of a dune. My impression from a search of Google Scholar is that the term is also used as a one-time event or a collection of episodic events, so a waterfall is not a good analogue. Also, I think the picture of Antelope Canyon is illustrating a sun beam, not a sandfall.
210:
for a fantastic photo. I think
Jacques Cousteau may have coined this term in reference to a phenomenon he filmed near Cabo San Lucas, but I can't find any evidence that the term ever caught on. The referenced University of Chicago paper isn't about this topic, but about fluid dynamics.
878:
should not have its own article, but sufficient sourcing seems to be lacking. It seems logical to me that especially underwater "sandfalls" should be common. I don't think the picture of
Antelope Canyon should be used unless we can find some indication that "sandfall" is seen in it.
447:
Yeah, was aware the article said so, but I couldn't find anything to link the two. But if geo/sci editors tell me it is so then I think we should do what we can to find some sources. If we can't, so be it. I see you've suggested a redirect, which might be a good solution.
622:
defines it as "sand swept over a cliff or escarpment." I'm focussing on dictionaries and glossaries because it is hard to tell from the results of a Google
Scholar search which meanings are scientific terms and which are just a convenient grouping of words.
477:- The process exists, is remarkable, and certainly worthy of a WP article. It may well be the subject of papers and theses under a different name. A geologist would be able to help. Even so, I don't think it should be deleted after only a cursory search.
831:
If this were part of a WP article, I for one would be asking for references, and insist on knowing where the compiler got the idea that "slip face" equals "sandfall". Even large reference sources normally accepted as 'reliable' contain rubbish items.
649:
329:
How could visual material possibly "demonstrate that there is a notable and recognized phenomenon called a sandfall"? These visual sources were added to clarify the process, not to provide forensic evidence about notability or taxonomy.
619:
869:
seem incorrect to me, as in those phenomena sand is only falling over sand. ("Sandfall, by way of contrast, I think involves sand falling over some other substance, especially rock.) "Sandfall" could be redirected to
410:
given Paul's comments. I have no problem holding my !vote until someone with some geo/sci knowledge can evaluate source availability. Paul; would be interested in your comments on the underwater variation that I
172:
1128:
I'd still say redirect because the only well supported definition is the one for dunes; and the equivalent term "slip face" is mentioned four times in that article. A statement should be added to
664:. Alas I could not find any sources covering sandfalls with prose in depth. The concept is verifiable, however, and most of definitions I have seen reference dunes or slip faces, so a redirect to
52:. There is a lot of really good discussion here as to what to do with this and similar pages, the discussion should continue on the appropriate talk pages. The only consensus that I can see is
299:
Really don't understand what you mean - #1 and #3 clearly illustrate sand falling over edges, while #2 shows a submarine sandfall. Just how does that not support any statement in the article?
1082:
Many of the uses (including those related to beach deposition) appear casual, which is why I consulted a dictionary to see if someone considers it a technical term. If I search on
313:
Those sources convincingly demonstrate that sand falls in the presence of gravity. They don't demonstrate that there is a notable and recognized phenomenon called a sandfall.
1058:
Abundance, Tidal
Movement, Population Structure and Burrowing Rate of Emerita analoga (Anomura, Hippidae) at a Dissipative and a Reflective Sandy Beach in South Central Chile
575:
Paul: I think that RockMagnetist is saying that, in the literature, a sandfall is more like a landslide. Do you have a reference that says a sandfall is like a waterfall?
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Agree with your reasoning leading to
Sandfall's having its own article, and with the article's needing a better image to illustrate the process.
433:
Indeed - the article states "The same process occurs in submarine environments such as Cabo San Lucas, driven by water currents and gravity."
1083:
132:
810:. We now have a reliable source saying that a sandfall is a slip face, so the redirect suggested by RockMagnetist seems reasonable.
1035:
991:- Since Paul Venter does not consider a dictionary definition a reliable source, I'll post my analysis of the first two pages of a
1057:
227:
and then to nominate it for deletion. Your removal of the video references touches on a discussion which is presently being held
17:
561:
A waterfall may be perennial, flow only after rains, flow after ice- or snowmelt and generally behave exactly like a sandfall
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At best those links are suitable as external links because they don't provide support for any statement in the article.
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Subsurface old drainage detection and paleoenvironment analysis using spaceborne radar images in Alxa
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Several related to various engineering and physics experiments (e.g., sand pouring through a funnel)
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A Tentative
Classification of Sand Dunes Its Application to Dune History in the Southern High Plains
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slip face (geology) The steeply sloping leeward surface of a sand dune. Also known as sandfall.
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as suggested above, you will see that visual material does not fall under unreliable sources.
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
697:
has more mentions of slip faces, and in any case they are not restricted to one type of dune.
539:- the McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Geology & Mineralogy defines "sandfall" as equivalent to
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Paleodrainage detection with
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I think, based on the sources I have seen, the primary meaning is related to dunes. A
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It looks like "sandfall" is a real term that goes beyond
Jacques Cousteau.
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One about a meteorological event, probably related to dust from the Sahara
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Temporal variability of the sand beach macroinfauna in south-central Chile
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593:- the main difference being that wind can be one of the driving forces.
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254:. None of these have any reasonable claim of being a reliable source.
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with a subsection, as Paul Venter suggests. I am also not sure that
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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A sand budget for the
Alexandria coastal dunefield, South Africa
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McGraw-Hill Dictionary of Scientific & Technical Terms 6E
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The process exists and is not covered by any other article.
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Paul: Here's the definition RockMagnetist is talking about:
346:
Just what I would have said if I had noticed the question!
231:, and is about reliable sources. Please add to the debate.
668:(a specific kind of dune where these slipfaces occur) or
760:
too - I see it written that way in many of the sources.
693:
and add a statement that it is a synonym for slip face.
1102:
On that basis, then, do you still favour a redirect to
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111:
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1002:
three references to morphological features of dunes:
518:None of the sources relate to the article so fails
1106:or are you now more inclined to suggest deletion?
620:United States Geological Survey Professional Paper
415:able to find a few things for. Are they the same?
1132:saying that sandfall is a synonym for slip face.
652:shows plenty of unambiguous sandfall images, and
268:If you read the debate currently taking place at
56:should be redirected somewhere and not deleted.
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1193:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1028:one related to deposition downwind of a dune:
650:google: "Sandfall" -wikipedia antelope canyon
193:
8:
1044:three related to wave deposition on beaches:
993:Google Scholar search of the term 'sandfall'
496:list of Science-related deletion discussions
494:Note: This debate has been included in the
1071:Two related to sand ejected from a volcano
735:, we should probably do the same for both
493:
1054:- related to sediment deposits on beaches
654:flickrhivemind has a sandfall section
7:
589:Actually, a sandfall is more like a
1052:Suspension Feeders on Sandy Beaches
921:could point people to other uses.
24:
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
247:Here are the links I removed:
1:
672:(in general) is warranted. --
54:that the information belongs
701:should redirect there too.
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1182:Please do not modify it.
656:. Here are sandfalls in
406:I've changed my note to
32:Please do not modify it.
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968:WP:ITEXISTS
895:Paul venter
834:Paul venter
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674:Mark viking
563:Paul venter
479:Paul venter
435:Paul venter
332:Paul venter
301:Paul venter
273:Paul venter
233:Paul venter
208:WP:COATRACK
167:free images
719:Note that
520:WP:NRSNVNA
1187:talk page
863:Slip face
758:Sand fall
741:slip face
699:Slip face
541:slip face
500:• Gene93k
63:talk page
37:talk page
1189:or in a
1161:Stalwart
1155:Redirect
1109:Stalwart
912:redirect
881:Bus stop
876:Sandfall
781:Redirect
737:slipface
729:sandfall
721:slipface
687:Redirect
638:Redirect
591:rockfall
451:Stalwart
418:Stalwart
387:Stalwart
126:View log
82:Sandfall
74:Sandfall
39:or in a
1158:again.
989:Comment
917:tag on
859:Barchan
725:Barchan
666:Barchan
662:on Mars
658:Namibia
642:Barchan
616:Comment
537:Comment
408:neutral
173:WP refs
161:scholar
99:protect
94:history
972:Pburka
812:Pburka
577:Pburka
516:Delete
381:Delete
315:Pburka
256:Pburka
213:Pburka
145:Google
103:delete
865:) or
204:WP:NN
188:JSTOR
149:books
133:Stats
120:views
112:watch
108:links
16:<
1138:talk
1130:Dune
1104:Dune
1092:talk
976:talk
966:See
954:talk
946:Keep
927:talk
919:Dune
899:talk
885:talk
872:Sand
867:Dune
861:(or
838:talk
816:talk
794:talk
785:Sand
766:talk
749:talk
743:. --
739:and
733:Dune
707:talk
695:Dune
691:Dune
678:talk
670:Dune
660:and
646:Dune
629:talk
618:the
599:talk
581:talk
567:talk
549:talk
528:talk
504:talk
483:talk
475:Keep
439:talk
352:talk
336:talk
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260:talk
237:talk
229:here
217:talk
181:FENS
155:news
116:logs
90:talk
86:edit
59:J04n
1167:111
1115:111
783:to
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689:to
644:or
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457:111
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413:was
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124:– (
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84:(
65:)
61:(
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