Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Sarah Jane Hamilton (2nd nomination) - Knowledge (XXG)

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1078:. Subject clearly fails the relevant SNGs. The article includes no significant, reliably sourced biographical content. Three of the six refs used in the article show no more than that the subject cowrote a comic book about herself (or, more precisely, her porn industry persona). The "Skinflicks" book was self-published. Of the remaining pair, one mentions the subject only once in its 1000 or so pages, referring to "a demand for females who can ejaculate, a talent that has boosted the careers of 'rainwomen' like Nikki Charm, Fallon, and Sarah Jane Hamilton (aka Victoria Secret), all of whom can spurt liquids for Olympian distances"; the "X Factory" book is simply a compilation of interviews with porn performers whose only significant content regarding the subject that doesn't come from the subject herself seems to be "It's a undisputed turn-on seeing British bunnies like Sarah Jane Hamilton, Roxanne Hall, and Mrs. Sterling get stuffed far more literally than figuratively." Previous AFD was marred by participation by editors later banned for disruption (including the closer!) none of whom supported deletion. 831:", something I consider of some weight in her bio. All the references I added are about this fact, all support the verifiability of this fact. The "blog" is the personal blog of Jay Allen Sanford, the Revolutionary Comics cartoonist that was co-author and cartoonist of the comics. Yes, the atomicavenue link is a not reliable source, you are true, is there not to support GNG but just because I retained it was useful. If a reference is unclair or misplaced sorry, you can edit. You don't like them and consider them not significant? I was sure even before.-- 313:"It's also worth reading the edit history thereafter." So read it, please. The references for the article were strengthened. Before AfD there were IMBD, blogs and "Excalibur Films" refs, that were subsequently addressed and replaced by more proper book citations. I do not ignore the closing of the previous discussion, but not considering that (in my opinion, obviously) the notability was already established in that discussion, per consensus (the cited " 856:! This is the second time you accuse me for something you have (assuming good faith...) not carefully verified, it the second time you insinuate (and not only, you wrote it in the edit summary) I am dishonest. I do not expect you that you apologize, I just hope, as I wrote above, that in the future you will be less aggressive, more polite, less nervous and more cautious in what you write. Best regards. -- 289:"The result was No consensus. Opinion on whether Ms. Hamilton meets WP:BIO standards is split, with a slight favoring to Keep the article. The article's supporters are invited to strengthen the references for the article, while its opponents are welcome to revisit the AfD later in the year if no effort has been made to improve its contents and references." Pastor Theo (talk) 01:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC) 944: 481: 531:". You don't like these sources...? This is another question. You wrote that after the AfD closing nothing changed, I noticed it was not so. You wrote (assuming good faith) something that was not true, I corrected it. That's all. After this epic fail I'm surprised you have not edited some exceptionally bad, "rude" and clearly contradicted statements as " 854: 777:
Are these just being inserted on the assumption that no one will check them? The remaining insertions all source only the fact that she helped script a three-part comic strip about a fantasy versions of herself - in ancient England, Revolutionary France, and early Hollywood. One "source" is a review
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Here's the sum total about Sarah Jane Hamilton in the whole of the newly added ref, "Pornography and Sexual Representation Volume I": "...characters aimed at different genders, a diversification that continues today. Here are to be found gay comics by Craig Maynard (Up From Bondage), Gerald Conelan,
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These are the only edits between the "No consensus weak keep" and the 2nd AfD. There's not a single edit after the closing that improves the article as the closer urged. Announcing that edits were made after the closing that responded to the closer does not make it so. The record discloses that they
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It's also worth reading the edit history thereafter. JD is simply taking up the invitation Pastor T extended, on the terms Pastor T suggested. I think this nomination is well-founded and I support it. The supposed notability proves ephemeral when one actually reads the "sources". That was true in
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Yes, if you include the changes made during the pendency of the AfD you get a slightly different result. But not much. Those changes were considered before the first closing. They don't amount to much. The "sources" that were added remained unimproved upon, for more than two years. Only bots and
483:(page 294). The other book sources seem to be also collections of anecdotes in the porn industry that are also make passing mentions of many actress, and this person seems to be mentioned in short mentions and not in actual coverage of her biography and her carreer. So, these sources show no 690:
The only thing this source says about SJH is that she was once a porn star and that a porn comic strip once featured a character like her. Good heavens. My uncle was once a publisher and Spider-man features a leading character who's a publisher. Does my uncle's resemblence to
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My method to compare the two versions of the article, the one before the Afd and the actual one, is slighty different from yours, and I have the little suspect the mine is more correct! I not only read the edit-summaries, I more properly compare the two versions, see
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Interestingly, the ref was inserted as an alleged source for SJH being a female ejaculator, or from Britian. It's not clear which fact it allegedly sources. No matter. Does anyone see anything in the actual words about either Britain OR female ejaculation? Nope, me
441:. I see also the "Refimprove" and the "Notability" tags disappeared. It's not my fault if the editor of this ref-clean-up did not announced it in the edit-summary. I'm not so crazy and so in bad faith to announce something that could be so easily verified.-- 935:
Skinflicks was in the article before closing and, as I wrote above, shown to be a fleeting mention in sentence fragment "In the "Skinflicks: The Inside Story of the X-Rated Video Industry" book, the only mention in the whole book is one sentence:
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After reading your insulting edit-summaries I verified what you wrote above, and you're still wrong! this is the correct extract from "Pornography and Sexual Representation", not the one you cited, as everyone can
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weren't. The opinion that notability was established in the last AfD is misinformed. Announcing that consensus was reached on notability does not make it so. That is not what "No consensus weak keep" means.
52:. I cannot say that this discussion reached consensus, and this is area in which there are sufficiently divergent views in the community as a whole that it is inappropriate to devalue any of the !votes. 487:
contribution to the field, or significant coverage of her person, so I'm not sure of how she is supposed to be passing WP:BIO or WP:ENT. As for WP:PORNBIO, she doesn't fullfill any of the points there."
827:" is not exactly the same thing of being the main subject of a comic series and collaborating in writing it! About the personal attacks to my edits, what I made: I added to the article the statement: " 261: 535:". In my 3000 edits I never received/made personal attacks nor I wanna begin today, so I invite you to be less aggressive, more polite and, above all, more cautious in what you write.-- 490:
I stand on the shoulders of giants. I can't possibly do a better job than EN did of analyzing the wiki-value of these sources. Calling them minimal would be an insult to every empty
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as the subject clearly passes GNG. It's quite rare that a pornographic performer having just one book mention, here we have a lot of book resources about the subject as:
433:: as I wrote I see the not-reliable sources (IMDB ref, the ref named "lukeford" and the ref named "excalibur") replaced and/or incorporated by the references to the book 823:
David, I'm definitely convinced you are in bad faith, or more probably you have not digested my comments to your vote: your acid tone says everything. For God's sake, "
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and Allison Bechdel and unusual sex strips drawn around real-life porn stars like Annie Sprinkle (Rip Off Press) and Sarah Jane Hamilton (Renegade Press)..." (page 61).
1041:. We are always very, very soft on porn actresses (did I just make a bad pun?) - keeping articles where mainstream actresses would get deleted. If we want to apply 376:
bot edit. Edit summary: m (Removed deprecated parameters from infobox per discussion in Template_talk:Infobox_adult_biography + general fixes using AWB (7707))
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She was also the subject and collaborated at writing of a three parts-Carnal Comics-series with her same name, published in 1994 by Revolutionary Comics
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by Todd Loren, S. S. Crompton and Jay Allen Sanford and in a lot of comics-centered guides, enciclopedies and catalogs (as, ie,
473:"In the "Skinflicks: The Inside Story of the X-Rated Video Industry" book, the only mention in the whole book is one sentence: " 172: 1083: 371:
bot edit. edit summary: (Moving deprecated imdb, iafd, and afdb from {{Infobox adult biography}} to External links per request)
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I was wrong about which facts this source backed. I did a bad job searching the book. I apologize. I'm duly chastened.
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These are the ladies who try pornographers' imaginations. The diminutive Fallon spurted "G-spot" orgams at will.
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These are the ladies who try pornographers' imaginations. The diminutive Fallon spurted "G-spot" orgams at will.
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Announcing "facts" that are not facts undermines the credibility of the announcer. Assumptions can be rebutted
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bot edit. edit summary: (Replace Infobox adult female with Infobox adult biography, per pending TFD decision)
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by Ian Gittler... or the fact she was one of the only 39 adult actors and actresses cited in the book
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And another is a blog. Taken together, we've got a sum total of nothing. Fleeting mentions in books
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on a commercial online site that sells comic books, for heaven's sake. I'm trying to maintain an
503: 178: 782:, but it's sorely strained when I review these "sources". This is a BLP, for crying out loud. 271: 249: 29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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I expanded the article and added several references from some of the sources listed above.--
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My uncle was once a publisher and Spider-man features a leading character who's a publisher
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between date of first close/opening of second AfD. Sources subtracted. Not one added.
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Announcing "facts" that are not facts undermines the credibility of the announcer.
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2009 and seems even truer today, given the lack of remediation since that time.
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David, seriously, you were wrong and you still are wrong: the changes happened
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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Critical vision: random essays & tracts concerning sex, religion, death
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randomly strewn in text, have little or nothing to do with the text.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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epbr123 removes hair color. Edit summary:(rm unreliably sourced)
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Perhaps before I do, I'll check the other newly inserted refs.
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Calendar of Historical Events, Births, Holidays and Observances
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and that she collaborated on the writing. She also appears in
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Carnal Comics: The Inside Story of Art, Sex, and Porn Stars
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Asarelah adds a category: Bisexual pornographic film actors
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the comic series of the same name of which was the subject
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list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions
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Articles for deletion/Sarah Jane Hamilton (3rd nomination)
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Articles for deletion/Sarah Jane Hamilton (2nd nomination)
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A blog. A review of a comic strip on a commercial site.
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Apology a strikethrough of the part I got wrong above.
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I can't wait to tell him. 381:John of Reading fixes infobox image syntax 259: 87:Articles for deletion/Sarah Jane Hamilton 237:Note: This debate has been added to the 84: 588:by David Kerekes and David Slater, in 386:Dismas removes deprecated, blank field 566:Pornography and sexual representation 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 396:Kumioko removes deprecated parameter 572:by Anthony Petkovich (five pages), 315:slight favoring to Keep the article 82: 24: 468:nailed their value way back when: 221:Subject fails GNG & PORNBIO. 617:British Pornographic Film Actors 335:Are we reading the same history? 529:during the pendency of the AfD 1: 1120:17:02, 15 December 2011 (UTC) 1088:20:20, 10 December 2011 (UTC) 303:02:32, 30 November 2011 (UTC) 276:16:38, 28 November 2011 (UTC) 254:16:37, 28 November 2011 (UTC) 231:15:25, 28 November 2011 (UTC) 70:20:05, 24 December 2011 (UTC) 1071:09:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC) 1030:06:42, 6 December 2011 (UTC) 993:20:50, 4 December 2011 (UTC) 956:15:57, 3 December 2011 (UTC) 927:13:16, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 905:12:23, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 884:16:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC) 866:09:35, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 841:08:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 816:04:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 792:02:28, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 769:12:41, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 751:09:35, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 732:02:10, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 714:02:04, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 683:09:35, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 655:23:36, 1 December 2011 (UTC) 637:11:23, 1 December 2011 (UTC) 619:or her portrait in the book 545:08:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 525:after the closing of the AfD 516:01:30, 2 December 2011 (UTC) 451:19:52, 1 December 2011 (UTC) 419:19:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC) 366:bot adds persondata template 327:11:23, 1 December 2011 (UTC) 1160: 341:bot fixes pre-existing ref 1132:Please do not modify it. 780:assumption of good faith 600:, p.144) in relation to 592:by Joseph W. Slade, in 32:Please do not modify it. 613:Électre multimédia 1998 239:WikiProject Pornography 598:Comic Book Price Guide 590:Pornography in America 291: 81:AfDs for this article: 1080:Hullaballoo Wolfowitz 741:: False! see below -- 673:: False! see below -- 287: 917:book-source added.-- 568:by Joseph W. Slade, 663:It pays to check. 576:by David Jennings, 108:Sarah Jane Hamilton 76:Sarah Jane Hamilton 578:The sexual century 504:Western Hemisphere 356:bot alters infobox 48:The result was 1122: 1118: 1069: 1032: 1028: 409:can be rebutted. 346:bot delinks dates 278: 265: 242:list of deletions 67: 65:So let it be done 60: 1151: 1134: 1117: 1115: 1108: 1106: 1102: 1059: 1022: 1018: 1011: 1007: 580:by Tom Hickman, 437:and to the book 266: 256: 216: 215: 201: 149: 131: 63: 59: 34: 1159: 1158: 1154: 1153: 1152: 1150: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1141:deletion review 1130: 1111: 1109: 1095: 1014: 1000: 913:I also see the 850:Further Comment 236: 158: 122: 106: 103: 101: 79: 66: 41:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1157: 1155: 1146: 1145: 1125: 1124: 1123: 1104: 1103: 1092: 1091: 1090: 1073: 1035: 1034: 1033: 1009: 1008: 997: 996: 995: 985:Morbidthoughts 977: 976: 975: 974: 973: 972: 971: 970: 969: 968: 967: 966: 965: 964: 963: 962: 961: 960: 959: 958: 930: 929: 908: 907: 887: 886: 869: 868: 844: 843: 794: 775: 774: 773: 772: 771: 754: 753: 717: 701: 686: 685: 668: 658: 657: 640: 639: 608:The New Yorker 606:an article of 558: 557: 556: 555: 554: 553: 552: 551: 550: 549: 548: 547: 488: 470: 469: 456: 455: 454: 453: 403: 399: 393: 388: 383: 378: 373: 368: 363: 358: 353: 348: 343: 337: 336: 330: 329: 306: 305: 280: 279: 257: 219: 218: 155: 102: 100: 99: 94: 89: 83: 80: 78: 73: 64: 46: 45: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1156: 1144: 1142: 1138: 1133: 1127: 1126: 1121: 1116: 1114: 1105: 1101: 1099: 1094: 1093: 1089: 1085: 1081: 1077: 1076:Strong delete 1074: 1072: 1067: 1063: 1058: 1057: 1052: 1048: 1044: 1040: 1037: 1036: 1031: 1026: 1023:(note: not a 1021: 1019: 1017: 1010: 1006: 1004: 999: 998: 994: 990: 986: 982: 979: 978: 957: 953: 949: 946:(page 294)." 945: 942: 941: 934: 933: 932: 931: 928: 924: 920: 916: 912: 911: 910: 909: 906: 902: 898: 894: 891: 890: 889: 888: 885: 881: 877: 873: 872: 871: 870: 867: 863: 859: 855: 851: 848: 847: 846: 845: 842: 838: 834: 830: 826: 822: 819: 818: 817: 813: 809: 806: 804: 799: 795: 793: 789: 785: 781: 776: 770: 766: 762: 758: 757: 756: 755: 752: 748: 744: 740: 737: 736: 735: 734: 733: 729: 725: 722: 718: 716: 715: 711: 707: 702: 700: 698: 694: 693:Jonah Jameson 688: 687: 684: 680: 676: 672: 669: 667: 662: 661: 660: 659: 656: 652: 648: 644: 643: 642: 641: 638: 634: 630: 626: 622: 618: 614: 610: 609: 603: 599: 595: 591: 587: 583: 579: 575: 571: 570:The X factory 567: 563: 560: 559: 546: 542: 538: 534: 530: 526: 522: 519: 518: 517: 513: 509: 505: 501: 497: 493: 489: 486: 482: 479: 478: 472: 471: 467: 463: 458: 457: 452: 448: 444: 440: 436: 432: 427: 424: 423: 422: 421: 420: 416: 412: 408: 404: 400: 397: 394: 392: 389: 387: 384: 382: 379: 377: 374: 372: 369: 367: 364: 362: 359: 357: 354: 352: 349: 347: 344: 342: 339: 338: 334: 333: 332: 331: 328: 324: 320: 316: 312: 311: 310: 309: 308: 307: 304: 300: 296: 290: 285: 282: 281: 277: 273: 269: 263: 258: 255: 251: 247: 243: 240: 235: 234: 233: 232: 228: 224: 214: 210: 207: 204: 200: 196: 192: 189: 186: 183: 180: 177: 174: 171: 168: 164: 161: 160:Find sources: 156: 153: 147: 143: 139: 135: 130: 126: 121: 117: 113: 109: 105: 104: 98: 95: 93: 90: 88: 85: 77: 74: 72: 71: 68: 61: 57: 56: 51: 44: 42: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 1131: 1128: 1112: 1096: 1075: 1054: 1050: 1046: 1038: 1016:I, Jethrobot 1015: 1001: 980: 939: 937: 914: 849: 828: 824: 820: 801: 797: 738: 719: 703: 689: 670: 664: 624: 620: 616: 612: 607: 597: 593: 589: 585: 581: 577: 573: 569: 565: 561: 532: 528: 524: 520: 484: 476: 474: 461: 438: 434: 425: 314: 288: 283: 220: 208: 202: 194: 187: 181: 175: 169: 159: 54: 50:no consensus 49: 47: 31: 28: 948:David in DC 897:David in DC 876:David in DC 808:David in DC 784:David in DC 761:David in DC 724:David in DC 706:David in DC 508:David in DC 485:significant 466:Enric Naval 411:David in DC 407:Assumptions 295:David in DC 185:free images 1113:Sandstein 1043:WP:PORNBIO 915:Skinflicks 893:Comparison 574:Skinflicks 435:Skinflicks 223:JoshyDinda 1137:talk page 919:Cavarrone 858:Cavarrone 833:Cavarrone 743:Cavarrone 675:Cavarrone 647:Cavarrone 629:Cavarrone 537:Cavarrone 498:in every 494:in every 464:the AfD, 443:Cavarrone 439:X-Factory 319:Cavarrone 268:• Gene93k 246:• Gene93k 37:talk page 1139:or in a 1098:Relisted 1066:contribs 1003:Relisted 721:niether. 697:Stan Lee 621:Pornstar 500:junkyard 492:gas tank 152:View log 39:or in a 853:verify: 821:Comment 803:WP:SNOW 739:Comment 671:Comment 527:, not " 521:Comment 502:in the 191:WP refs 179:scholar 125:protect 120:history 1047:Delete 462:during 284:Delete 163:Google 129:delete 55:Xymmax 1056:Legis 1045:then 1039:Dunno 431:here! 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Index

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
talk page
deletion review
Xymmax

So let it be done
20:05, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Sarah Jane Hamilton
Articles for deletion/Sarah Jane Hamilton
Articles for deletion/Sarah Jane Hamilton (2nd nomination)
Articles for deletion/Sarah Jane Hamilton (3rd nomination)
Sarah Jane Hamilton
edit
talk
history
protect
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links
watch
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views
View log
Google
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FENS
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