1027:(which apparently does not seem to have consensus yet?) did not remove the "is a member of the AVN or XRCO hall of fame" wording from PORNBIO. Also, the recent "Kristina Rose" AfD is irrelevant to consideration of this article here, since Ms. Rose has not been inducted into "an industry hall of fame" at all.
1097:
isn't a "primary" source - it's a site that usually gets its information from the adult film industry producers that have to verify that their performers are of age and/or legal to shoot adult films in the USA. It's actually been a rarity that I've personally seen IAFD-related info be proven wrong by
59:
as the subject is a member of the AVN Hall of Fame. While true, this is a guideline on notability, and does not replace the core requirement for articles to have been the subject of secondary sources of reliable information, as argued by delete/redirect voters. No such reliable secondary sources were
1163:
IMDb isn't considered reliable for its biographies, only for its filmographies (the IMDb awards sections are often very comprehensive though - I personally wouldn't use them as a first choice to cite award info though). IAFD is widely considered reliable for its basic biographical information in the
888:
That AfD decesion has already been a big joke, when I've read it the last time. The whole explanation says in short: Discussion is irrelevant, I will uncompromisingly decide it anyway (and for whatever reason only name delete comments in my whole explanation). I would already have brought that to
779:
nontrivial coverage in reliable, independent sources. The SNGs and sub-guidelines, including PORNBIO, are for determining notability in debatable cases where there is meaningful coverage that may or may not meet GNG; they should not be used to find notability where it is plainly lacking.
407:
per below - Having relooked at the discussion redirect is more beneficial to the reader than simply wiping them off of the entire project, IMHO you shouldn't just get an article just because you've been in some hall of fame (just like I don't believe singers should get their own article
1005:
NOTE: I've recently made some preliminary edits to the article in question here for the time being, and I'm sure that the article can be expanded further in the future. The subject here (who's full stage name is apparently "Sascha Koch" - maybe this article should be moved there?)
816:
require that we base articles on reliable, third party sources. This article lacks any reliable third party sources. Interpretation of PORNBIO (a guideline which is a failure as a useful tool) cannot override the failure of this article to comply with a core content policy.
1014:, which is one of the longest-running & most well-known adult film industry awards, "Unsung Swordsman" award, which is a significant award category) and has also been recently inducted into "an industry hall of fame such as the
531:). I still don't see sources required for stand-alone notability; the entire article consists of "Sascha (born 24 October 1976 in Leonberg, Germany) is a German pornographic film actor and director"; list of awards; and infobox.
278:
listing of a BLP on an unremarkable actor, with no meaningful bio data present. Significant RS coverage cannot be found to meet GNG. The award category "Unsung
Swordsman" is not significant and well known thus not meeting
60:
presented and no convincing arguments were made that a lack of independent sources was acceptable. I thus find that there is a stronger argument against keeping the article, with a redirect being the most sensible option.
670:. Another BLP without biographical content or independent reliable sourcing, for a performer known only by a generic mononym. That's how this would be handled in any other field, if such an article would be kept at all.
181:
642:
Actually, I've noticed now that the box cover even has the names of the male performers written on it, something, which is very unusual for porn covers and probably only done because the movie has been so popular.
244:
711:. I would rather guess that at least 80 % of 1908 olympic participants (in all sports) are stubs. Oh, and did you notice that there are also other known entertainers in this world that have a mononym? Like
1213:
434:
1140:, in that it is open to the public and is searchable. (...) Like the IMDb, forms are used for submitting data corrections, though the IAFD's form is considerably simpler than the IMDb's. ...
565:
You did see the Hall of Fame? (and just didn't even mention it) While a Hall of Famer is a great sign for a probable article improvement, being a stub is no general reason for deletion. --
134:
1164:
adult film industry, which would hardly ever qualify anyone as notable on
Knowledge (XXG) in any event. IAFD is certainly not a "primary source" by any stretch of the imagination.
612:
Merely appearing in such a release doesn't satisfy PORNBIO. Lisa Ann is the only star of that video; just look at the boxcover. A settled issue; this claim doesn't make the cut.
957:
How can a stub in any way comply with content policies about sourcing when the definition of a stub is that it literally consists of nothing more than 1 or 2 basic sentences? --
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they've had 1 charted single ... I'm going off topic here, Point is all articles should meet GNG which this doesn't however redirecting is better than deleting.) –
978:
Acceptable stubs that will not be deleted will have at least two references to reliable, third party sources. Many stubs have much more than two sentences.
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who actually nobody in the world knows about who he is without a mask. Oh, and funnily it just came to my mind that there is a German singer called
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A proposal to delete a performer who's been inducted into AVN's Hall of fame? - That is not merely unconscionable, but rather criminal insanity!
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Of course, the box cover says it all... Who cares about the persons who e. g. pictured
Hillary Clinton, Condolleeza Rice or Bill O'Reilly. --
1024:
847:"Finally and perhaps most importantly, arguably meeting the PORNBIO criteria is not by default a "is notable"/keep reason, as said on
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isn't IAFD substantially similar to IMDB, which is not considered RS for establishing notability? The linked article states:
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with flying colors with both a well-known/significant non-scene/ensemble award win and an AVN Hall of Fame induction.
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as well. However, it must be impossible to be known in the world if one doesn't have a last name. Great argument. --
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Edit #2: The article now contains an additional paragraph, but the sources are either primary (IAFD) or
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I can't remember since when stub articles (which are also absolutely common in sports) are forbiden. --
851:, something also emphasized by a number of delete !voters who also noted relevant statements such as
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with a quote from the recent close of the AfD for the
Kristina Rose article, deleted on 27 August:
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544:; the article provides no meaningful bio data, and redirection to a list would be appropriate.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Edit: the AVN Hall of Fame reference was added after the article was proposed for deletion (
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if I would speak
English more fluently and have more time. Also, may I remember you about
716:
672:
The Big Bad
Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006.
614:
The Big Bad
Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by administrators since 2006.
61:
527:-- the AVN Hall of Fame reference was added after the article was proposed for deletion (
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290:). I still don't see sources required for stand-alone notability. The article can be
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787:("eeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included.");
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55:. Editors who argued in favour of keeping this article largely cited
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Not only unique contribution for his Hall of Fame but also for
935:
Stub articles are not forbidden, but like every article, they
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comply with our core content policies. This article doesn't.
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starring in an iconic, groundbreaking or blockbuster feature
1189:
for the purpose of establishing notability or meeting GNG.
1214:
list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions
435:
list of
Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions
359:-- the "unsung" portion of it suggests that it does not.
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it appears that we agree that IAFD does not represent
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1008:"has won a well-known and significant industry award"
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Kristina Rose
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202:
773:points 1 and 2(c), but it doesn't appear there is
769:for lack of notability. The subject seems to meet
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1248:). No further edits should be made to this page.
789:WP:Notability § Why we have these requirements
311:Class of 2016: The AVN Hall of Fame Inductees
8:
1212:Note: This debate has been included in the
459:list of Germany-related deletion discussions
457:Note: This debate has been included in the
433:Note: This debate has been included in the
1211:
456:
432:
668:List of members of the AVN Hall of Fame
538:List of members of the AVN Hall of Fame
296:List of members of the AVN Hall of Fame
52:List of members of the AVN Hall of Fame
1147:A clarification would be appreciated.
874:for the additional closing arguments.
744:per criteria (2) for being member of
338:Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
590:, an iconic feature, which has made
863:about a sensitive subject matter."
24:
1025:recent proposed change to PORNBIO
536:The article can be redirected to
1226:06:52, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
1199:02:00, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
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953:20:34, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
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831:06:30, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
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758:13:48, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
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1:
785:WP:BIO § Additional criteria
77:09:38, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
1265:
688:Hmm, no this is actually
381:as fails PORNBIO AND GNG–
1237:Please do not modify it.
812:Our core content policy
463:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
439:Krishna Chaitanya Velaga
32:Please do not modify it.
1138:Internet Movie Database
1136:"It is similar to the
1023:I would note that the
331:. Does his award meet
692:how a stub of e. g.
594:extremely famous. --
588:Who's Nailin' Paylin
483:Strong, Speedy Keep
891:WP:Deletion review
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919:SamWinchester000
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870:More details at
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826:Let's discuss it
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750:Arthistorian1977
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895:WP:OTHERCRAP
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713:Cro (singer)
700:participants
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410:just becuase
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276:WP:DIRECTORY
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50:redirect to
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1191:K.e.coffman
1149:K.e.coffman
1048:Pwolit iets
1003:Strong Keep
876:K.e.coffman
738:Strong keep
546:K.e.coffman
504:Strong Keep
491:Rebecca1990
461:. Regards,
437:. Regards,
361:K.e.coffman
315:K.e.coffman
239:free images
176:free images
1012:XRCO Award
742:WP:PORNBIO
697:tournament
487:WP:PORNBIO
343:reply here
335:? Sigh. --
333:WP:PORNBIO
309:, such as
281:WP:PORNBIO
57:WP:PORNBIO
1242:talk page
1187:WP:SIGCOV
740:. Passes
37:talk page
1244:or in a
1093:- FWIW,
694:Football
592:Lisa Ann
405:Redirect
292:redirect
135:View log
39:or in a
1181:Guy1890
1166:Guy1890
1123:Guy1890
1117:Comment
1100:Guy1890
1091:Comment
1066:WP:PERX
1029:Guy1890
915:Comment
857:WP:WHYN
853:WP:NRVE
836:Comment
771:PORNBIO
709:handled
580:Comment
542:WP:WHYN
525:Comment
485:passes
357:Comment
329:Comment
300:WP:WHYN
245:WP refs
233:scholar
182:WP refs
170:scholar
108:protect
103:history
981:Cullen
942:Cullen
861:WP:BLP
849:WP:BIO
820:Cullen
810:Delete
763:Delete
379:Delete
294:ed to
217:Google
154:Google
112:delete
1072:Davey
933:Reply
703:would
416:Davey
385:Davey
260:JSTOR
221:books
197:JSTOR
158:books
142:Stats
129:views
121:watch
117:links
69:alton
16:<
1222:talk
1195:talk
1170:talk
1153:talk
1104:talk
1095:IAFD
1077:2010
1064:See
1052:talk
1044:Keep
1033:talk
963:talk
937:must
923:talk
903:talk
897:? --
880:talk
855:and
795:Rebb
767:DEL8
765:per
754:talk
725:talk
676:talk
649:talk
634:talk
618:talk
600:talk
571:talk
563:Keep
550:talk
529:diff
512:talk
495:talk
471:mail
467:talk
447:mail
443:talk
421:2010
390:2010
365:talk
319:talk
288:diff
253:FENS
227:news
190:FENS
164:news
125:logs
99:talk
95:edit
73:talk
1119:--
1068:. –
800:ing
782:Cf.
776:any
666:to
302:.
283:.
267:TWL
204:TWL
133:– (
65:am
1224:)
1216:.
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1054:)
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1018:".
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643:--
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