Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Seamus Coleman - Knowledge (XXG)

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658:. Struway2 summed it up pretty well. Not yet made the grade notability wise only standard web coverage for any typical fairly non-notable person. Pretty poor if a few google hits make someone notable. I typed in a couple of random made-up-on-the-spot names and got over 1200 hits on each, including so-called non-trivial coverage articles - and they are just ordinary people. The sooner people realise that the internet has bucketloads about everyone on the planet and a ghit or twelve doesn't make one notable, the better WP will be as an encyclopedia. Recreate if and when. -- 783:
point is arbitrary but clear. The flexibility comes in the interpretation of WP:BIO, in deciding whether the coverage has been of sufficient depth to constitute non-trivial coverage. I'd hope that trivial reports in major English or US newspapers – which some of the google news hits were – wouldn't bear any more weight than similar reports in Irish sources. cheers,
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was wrong: the article contains no sources at all and the player had never participated at the highest level, thus IMO failing WP:ATHLETE. That's by the by. As long as WP:ATHLETE specifies playing in a fully-pro league, that's what we have to go by for players of professional team sports. The cut-off
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I'm not by nature a deleter, but I'm keen on AfDs being decided on the basis of current policy. This particular article is better than most articles on LOI players in that it does contain sources (I added one myself): mostly they run along the lines of XXX is a footballer who plays for YYY F.C. with
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only have played in tournaments where prize money was on offer, with no evidence he had actually won any. Seamus Coleman has played competitive football in a top level national league of an important footballing nation and now has a professional contract with one of the largest teams in Europe AND
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Jimbo Wales. There's enough content out there in quite reliable sources, Irish Times, Irish Independent, etc. to write a "good neutral biography", and some of the cites do discuss Coleman in reasonable detail. It's one thing to oppose a non-notable topic because the non-notability results in a
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Here are a few of the more reliable sources, including some mentions that are certainly more than trivial. As the discussion is indicating, this is certainly a borderline case, but there's enough coverage out there in reliable sources to write a workable article, and I think he passes WP:BIO.
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does clearly state that a subject must play at the highest professional level of a sport to be considered notable. Following the transfer to Everton and his first appearance there, then there should be no problem with this. Currently, this is not the case, and there are not enough
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mentions are just that – mentions of his name in team sheets and match reports. His transfer is covered, but only to the extent of reporting it happened; the BBC covers transfers in similar detail at much lower levels of English football, e.g.
338:- League of Ireland may be semi pro, but it is that nation's top level league. Quick search shows that almost all LOI players have articles. He has a professional contract with Everton, and under-21 caps. Technically he might fail 441:
While most of the hits do discuss his transfer, I don't think that's a problem. If a variety of reliable sources are writing about his transfer, that makes him notable, and as I tried to prove earlier, many of the references are
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Hundreds of thousands is a tad exaggerated! Flexibility is needed here - if a semi pro team was to be promoted into, for example, the Scottish Premier League (entirely possible) do all the players in that league suddenly fail ]?
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I haven't yet seen coverage of Mr Coleman that goes beyond the trivial, so in my view he fails WP:BIO. And as he clearly fails WP:ATHLETE, by never having played in a fully-professional league, I have to go with delete. cheers,
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professional league but the fact that it is a top level league of a significant country and not the fifth or sixth level of e.g. England or a larger country surely allows a degree of flexibility over the precise definition of
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carry the most weight. Sources have been found, including several that mention Coleman in more than a passing manner; however, each of these, without exception, speak only to the pending transfer to Everton,
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Non-triviality is a measure of the depth of content of a published work, and how far removed that content is from a simple directory entry or a mention in passing that does not discuss the subject in detail.
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I'm unconvinced by this. A quick flick through the links revealed a bunch of non RS, passing references to him and local parochial coverage. It looks like he will be notable; the article can run then. --
158:; he has never played in a fully-pro league (League of Ireland is only semi-pro) and youth caps do not give notability. Originally a PROD which was a removed by an IP user, with no reason given. 925:
due to him not playing at a fully professional level or in a competitive full international. The coverage is about the transfer, not the subject as a player and is not 'substantial coverage'.
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trivial. Several of them devote a couple of paragraphs to him. Sure, there's nothing here like a twenty page profile in the NY Times magazine, but there's enough to establish notability.
779: 719: 521: 321:. Two good points are made--other coverage can establish notability too, but Dweller is correct in saying these references are mostly passing mentions, longer mentions are on blogs. 147: 61:
to any actual aspect of his football playing. If Coleman is notable, he is notable for being a football player, not for being a subject of a run-of-the-mill transfer.
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Why, the league isn't fully-pro? Hundreds of thousands of players play in the top flight of national leagues. This is why the criteria and guidelines, such as
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of Eastbourne Borough, a semi-pro team playing in the fifth tier, signing a player whose only competitive experience was at even lower levels. Footnote 6 at
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notability, it doesn't guarantee it. What has this player done to make him notable? And how is his notabliity established in the sources given? The
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inconsistent :-) The result of borderline ones often seem to depend on the assertiveness of interested participants. FWIW, I think the result of
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Just because other players have articles doesn't mean that this player should. I have in fact just PRODded about half a dozen LoI players.
484:- no appearances, no notability; if he is expected to be notable as a footballer, then he should first play some competitive football. -- 263:. That's three paragraphs in the most read paper in Ireland, labeling him "one of the Eircom League's most prodigious young talents". 114: 109: 17: 118: 173: 101: 895:. This person has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. He therefore meets 614:"I'd be happy to have, in theory, a good, neutral biography on every single person on the planet. I mean why not, right?" 633:
no sources at all, and if I was that way inclined I'd PROD the lot of them. If the closing admin believes that the player
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has Under-21 caps AND has significant coverage in Irish newspapers and some from the UK and that's less noteworthy than
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I wonder if the reports had been in the largest circulation newspapers of the USA or England would there be doubt over
697:. This article can be recreated if and when he makes his professional debut, but until then he doesn't make the grade. 36: 718:- I'm new to AfD discussions and am a little confused by an (apparent) lack of consistency. In this recent discussion 618:
dearth of usable sources. When, however, there are enough reliable sources to write the article, what's the harm?
804:. Playing 50+ matches in the highest division of Ireland and a well-publicized move to Everton are enough for me. 586: 860: 547: 948:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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He has made 55 appearances for Sligo Rovers. It may not be Serie A, but it is the top level league in Ireland.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
576:. As to general notability, the google news hits are half non-RS and the rest just mention his transfer, the 872: 489: 412: 934: 909: 881: 854: 839: 818: 792: 765: 710: 669: 646: 627: 607: 568: 551: 533: 509: 493: 476: 455: 432: 416: 383: 367: 351: 330: 301: 289: 242: 226: 201: 183: 165: 83: 864: 739:?? Many of the players in the LOI are on full time, professional contracts. I understand that it is not a 564: 429: 364: 180: 162: 105: 930: 281: 543: 529: 922: 900: 888: 826: 809: 745: 723: 678: 396: 374:
Perhaps you ought to have waited for this result of this discussion before PRODding other articles?
339: 155: 62: 473: 274: 615: 788: 642: 603: 485: 408: 48:. While it is a very close debate, in reviewing the arguments I feel that the statements made by 209:. He may fail WP:Athlete, but that is itself a secondary criteron. The basic criterion under 850: 835: 761: 560: 505: 426: 379: 361: 347: 257: 238: 197: 177: 159: 29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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pass WP:BIO, then fair enough; I wouldn't agree, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it. cheers,
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Most newspaper hits for this players are trivial, and simply mention his transfer.
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that provide evidence of his notability to justify an article at this time.
273:, most just in passing, but that's still 13 separate mentions in Ireland's 756:? Sorry if I'm well wide of the mark here, but it is a little confusing. 469:- I can find no non-trivial third party references about this fellow. – 868: 681:
as he has not yet played at a fully professional level. Furthermore,
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of the sources should be the most important criterion here, not the
253:"Sligo star Coleman relishing the prospect of cross-channel switch" 213:
is coverage in reliable, published secondary sources. Coleman has
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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are fully professional, but does that mean that the players of
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Chris Gardner (curler)
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Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion/Chris Gardner (curler)
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the consensus was overwhelming that this curler meets both
217:, and there's a fair degree of coverage on other sites. 142: 131: 127: 123: 580:
para is general spacefilling football gossip, and the
315:--I am moderately convinced by the coverage provided. 176:'s list of association football related deletions. 522:list of Living people-related deletion discussions 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 952:). No further edits should be made to this page. 399:, but cool3's news results would seem to meet 8: 899:, he is notable enough to merit an article. 215:20 google news hits in the last month alone 192:nn until he plays a professional match. -- 280:Coverage also extends beyond Ireland to 520:: This debate has been included in the 172:This discussion has been included in 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 748:? As for the comments that he fails 24: 859:Exactly. Not all players in the 685:states that media coverage only 903:is not the be-all and end-all. 829:are in place. Therefore, I say 407:, which would override that. 1: 935:18:54, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 910:12:01, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 882:12:25, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 855:12:16, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 840:09:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 819:02:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC) 793:09:52, 25 February 2009 (UTC) 766:00:21, 25 February 2009 (UTC) 711:11:16, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 670:11:06, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 647:09:52, 25 February 2009 (UTC) 628:18:52, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 608:09:24, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 569:06:47, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 552:03:51, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 534:00:14, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 510:06:58, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 494:22:38, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 477:19:32, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 456:04:06, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 433:19:43, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 417:17:56, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 384:07:42, 24 February 2009 (UTC) 368:19:43, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 352:17:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 331:16:48, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 302:17:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 243:16:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 227:16:15, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 202:14:02, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 184:13:29, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 166:13:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 84:08:13, 28 February 2009 (UTC) 969: 861:Belarusian Premier League 730:despite the fact that he 284:(a passing mention), the 945:Please do not modify it. 706:(bring on the trumpets!) 277:over the last two years. 32:Please do not modify it. 342:but seems a bit picky. 865:Cypriot First Division 559:seems notable enough. 292:, and several others. 591:WP:BIO#Basic criteria 873:Anorthosis Famagusta 174:WikiProject Football 275:newspaper of record 261:. October 20, 2008. 891:is subordinate to 44:The result was 707: 668: 578:Irish Independent 536: 267:Thirteen mentions 258:Irish Independent 186: 960: 947: 708: 705: 701: 665: 659: 516: 262: 171: 145: 139: 121: 68:reliable sources 54:User:TerriersFan 34: 968: 967: 963: 962: 961: 959: 958: 957: 956: 950:deletion review 943: 704: 699: 663: 544:Hubschrauber729 286:Birmingham Post 251: 141: 112: 96: 93: 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 966: 964: 955: 954: 938: 937: 915: 914: 913: 912: 886: 885: 884: 822: 821: 798: 797: 796: 795: 769: 768: 713: 672: 652: 651: 650: 649: 611: 610: 571: 554: 537: 513: 512: 497: 496: 479: 463: 462: 461: 460: 459: 458: 436: 435: 420: 419: 395:- He may fail 389: 388: 387: 386: 371: 370: 355: 354: 333: 309: 308: 307: 306: 305: 304: 290:Scottish Fitba 278: 264: 230: 229: 204: 187: 152: 151: 98:Seamus Coleman 92: 90:Seamus Coleman 87: 79: 76: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 965: 953: 951: 946: 940: 939: 936: 932: 928: 924: 920: 917: 916: 911: 908: 906: 902: 898: 894: 890: 887: 883: 880: 878: 874: 870: 866: 862: 858: 857: 856: 852: 848: 843: 842: 841: 838: 837: 832: 828: 824: 823: 820: 817: 815: 811: 807: 803: 800: 799: 794: 790: 786: 781: 777: 773: 772: 771: 770: 767: 763: 759: 755: 751: 747: 742: 738: 737:Chris Gardner 733: 729: 725: 721: 717: 714: 712: 709: 702: 696: 692: 688: 684: 680: 676: 673: 671: 667: 666: 657: 654: 653: 648: 644: 640: 636: 631: 630: 629: 625: 621: 616: 613: 612: 609: 605: 601: 596: 592: 588: 583: 579: 575: 572: 570: 566: 562: 558: 555: 553: 549: 545: 541: 538: 535: 531: 527: 523: 519: 515: 514: 511: 507: 503: 499: 498: 495: 491: 487: 483: 480: 478: 475: 472: 468: 465: 464: 457: 453: 449: 445: 440: 439: 438: 437: 434: 431: 428: 424: 423: 422: 421: 418: 414: 410: 409:Grandmartin11 406: 402: 398: 394: 391: 390: 385: 381: 377: 373: 372: 369: 366: 363: 359: 358: 357: 356: 353: 349: 345: 341: 337: 334: 332: 328: 324: 320: 319: 314: 311: 310: 303: 299: 295: 291: 287: 283: 279: 276: 272: 268: 265: 260: 259: 254: 250: 249: 246: 245: 244: 240: 236: 232: 231: 228: 224: 220: 216: 212: 208: 205: 203: 199: 195: 191: 188: 185: 182: 179: 175: 170: 169: 168: 167: 164: 161: 157: 154:Player fails 149: 144: 137: 133: 129: 125: 120: 116: 111: 107: 103: 99: 95: 94: 91: 88: 86: 85: 82: 81: 80: 77: 74: 69: 64: 60: 55: 51: 50:User:Struway2 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 944: 941: 918: 905:Aecis·(away) 877:Aecis·(away) 869:BATE Borisov 834: 830: 814:Aecis·(away) 801: 775: 740: 731: 715: 694: 690: 686: 674: 661: 660: 655: 634: 594: 581: 577: 573: 561:Irishflowers 556: 539: 517: 481: 466: 443: 392: 335: 317: 316: 312: 256: 206: 189: 153: 73: 72: 58: 45: 43: 31: 28: 927:TerriersFan 677:. He fails 587:this report 582:Irish Times 542:- Per nom. 318:Weak delete 271:Irish Times 923:WP:ATHLETE 901:WP:ATHLETE 889:WP:ATHLETE 827:WP:ATHLETE 810:WP:ATHLETE 746:WP:Athlete 724:WP:athlete 679:WP:ATHLETE 526:Erwin85Bot 397:WP:ATHLETE 340:WP:Athlete 156:WP:ATHLETE 63:WP:ATHLETE 557:Weak keep 313:Weak keep 207:Weak keep 921:. Fails 863:and the 785:Struway2 695:quantity 687:presumes 639:Struway2 600:Struway2 148:View log 847:Parslad 808:trumps 758:Parslad 716:Comment 691:quality 502:Parslad 430:Snowman 376:Parslad 365:Snowman 344:Parslad 282:the BBC 269:in the 235:Dweller 194:Dweller 181:Snowman 163:Snowman 115:protect 110:history 919:Delete 831:DELETE 700:Bettia 675:Delete 664:Oranje 656:Delete 574:Delete 540:Delete 486:Angelo 482:Delete 467:Delete 405:WP:BIO 401:WP:GNG 323:Drmies 211:WP:BIO 190:Delete 143:delete 119:delete 46:delete 836:Jimbo 774:AfDs 741:fully 620:Cool3 593:says 448:Cool3 427:Giant 362:Giant 294:Cool3 219:Cool3 178:Giant 160:Giant 146:) – ( 136:views 128:watch 124:links 16:< 931:talk 897:WP:N 893:WP:N 871:and 851:talk 833:. -- 806:WP:N 802:Keep 789:talk 762:talk 754:WP:N 750:WP:N 728:WP:N 726:and 683:WP:N 662:Club 643:talk 635:does 624:talk 604:talk 565:talk 548:talk 530:talk 524:. -- 518:Note 506:talk 490:talk 452:talk 413:talk 403:and 393:Keep 380:talk 348:talk 336:Keep 327:talk 298:talk 239:talk 223:talk 198:talk 132:logs 106:talk 102:edit 78:fold 75:Hers 52:and 776:are 732:may 474:Jay 471:Pee 444:not 59:not 933:) 853:) 812:. 791:) 764:) 645:) 626:) 606:) 567:) 550:) 532:) 508:) 492:) 454:) 415:) 382:) 350:) 329:) 300:) 288:, 255:. 241:) 225:) 200:) 134:| 130:| 126:| 122:| 117:| 113:| 108:| 104:| 929:( 849:( 787:( 760:( 641:( 622:( 602:( 563:( 546:( 528:( 504:( 488:( 450:( 411:( 378:( 346:( 325:( 296:( 237:( 221:( 196:( 150:) 140:( 138:) 100:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
deletion review
User:Struway2
User:TerriersFan
WP:ATHLETE
reliable sources
Hersfold
08:13, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Seamus Coleman
Seamus Coleman
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
delete
View log
WP:ATHLETE
Giant
Snowman
13:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
WikiProject Football
Giant
Snowman
13:29, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Dweller

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