357:'s description of "entirely primary sources" is not accurate. Although there are quite a few primary sources, there were also multiple "notability-supporting" sources already listed (including "wiki links"), and to assist with "evidence of notability," I have just added several additional sources to the page. Agreed about the
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notability in and of itself. People can and do make unverifiable and/or self-aggrandizing claims in interviews, and we don't have the ability to independently fact-check everything a person says to verify whether they were doing that or not — so notability is dependent on coverage in sources that
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5 - A simple directory listing, not media coverage — directory listings do not assist notability. And anyway, all of the listings in that directory are cited to the catalog "Aaron's
Rainbow Project", which means it's not a directory of media coverage about him, but a directory listing of his
361:
tone - but again, can easily be fixed with a few edits. Still not reason enough to delete. Finally, to provide additional context for reason for continued inclusion, I would reference the following
Knowledge (XXG) articles of artists who fit into this particular niche of not just
349:. I saw the recent activity on this article and I'm not sure I get all the fuss. I found 3 external links in the body text, so I simply changed those to reference links, but hardly seemed reason enough to recommend for deletion - much easier just to fix. As far as the
468:
Again, you are correct that there are multiple primary sources in the article (including some press releases, blogs, and facebook posts), however that doesn't require deletion, rather continued editing and correction. The above list is made up of
248:. As always, musicians are not automatically entitled to have Knowledge (XXG) articles just because they exist -- but there's just nothing here, either in the substance or the sourcing, to suggest that he satisfies our inclusion requirements.
648:
Interesting. Each time an issue is resolved, the goalposts are moved. This has become a subjective nomination for deletion. Hopefully others will submit input to provide some balance. Would be disappointing if deleted based on frivolous
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coverage, such as the
Grammys or the Junos, not to every piddling little PR organization that creates its own awards to honour its own friends and never gets any coverage outside of what it publishes itself on its own
726:. Also two search urls, which are absolutely illegal. The others very poor, with a mix of blogs, which are also illegal. No secondary coverage. On Spotify, the artist has only 7181 plays, for the main record which is
174:
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It may be that you didn't fully understand where the goalposts were to begin with, but they haven't moved. Before !voting to delete, I reviewed the sources provided, and for the most part they neither meet
667:. Knowledge (XXG) has a very strict definition of notability these days. If I thought this case was marginal, I'd vote "weak keep" and hunt for better sources, but it isn't marginal; it's clear-cut.
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265:
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20 - The"GLBT Hall of Fame" is not a notable organization whose recognition counts as a notability claim for the purposes of getting into
Knowledge (XXG). Notability because awards attaches to
382:. Obviously "musicians are not automatically entitled to have Knowledge (XXG) articles just because they exist" - however artists such as these occupy a unique space in the genre of
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127:
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of this is the kind of sourcing it takes to make a person notable enough for a
Knowledge (XXG) article. Not the new sources you added, not the old ones that were already there —
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1 - Not a new source, but one that I already addressed in my nomination statement — so it fails to be proof that I was wrong in what I said about your new sources.
689:
Nope, nobody moved any goalposts. They're in the same place they always were, and you're simply failing to understand where that was and is in the first place.
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posts, not reliable or notability-assisting media outlets. And no, counting inbound or outbound wikilinks is neither a notability criterion nor "referencing".
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that demonstrate notability criterion. In reading through the history, your original complaint was about improperly placed external links and lack of strong
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have already done the fact-checking to ensure that what they report is accurate, not on sources in which a subject is speaking about themselves.
134:
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References #9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 25 - critical recognition by third party awards and charts - not a press release, blog, or facebook post.
523:, not being written about in the third person. That type of source can be used sparingly for supplementary verification of stray facts
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third party awards, which don't assist notability for the same reason that the "GLBT Hall of Fame" doesn't assist notability, and non-
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Reference #35 - Impact
Magazine third party article/review of published work - not a press release, blog, or facebook post.
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Reference #5 - citation of published material in mainstream
Christian music - not a press release, blog, or facebook post.
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such as his own website, the websites of organizations he's directly affiliated with, his book's sales profile on
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copies of his videos -- literally the only notability-supporting source here is #6, a short article in the
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4 - A single blurb about a single concert performance is not evidence of notability in and of itself.
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600:, not the "OutVoice" charts (which is actually the same organization as the "GLBT Hall of Fame".)
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Reference #20 - GLBT Hall of Fame recognition - not a press release, blog, or facebook post.
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Reference #3 - Watermark
Magazine interview - not a press release, blog, or facebook post.
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At least 12 of the sources are illegal social media, amazon etc and are not considered
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Reference #2 - RightOutTV interview - not a press release, blog, or facebook post.
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made up of reliable sources that demonstrate passage of a notability criterion.
244:, but a person requires quite a lot more than just one reliable source to clear
444:) article with interview quotes - not a press release, blog, or facebook post.
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Reference #17 - SFGN article - not a press release, blog, or facebook post.
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SFGN article as #1, so still irrelevant to what I said for the same reason.
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a blog; in addition, it's a Q&A interview in which he's speaking about
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730:. The others are <1000 plays All indicative of a lack of notability.
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of it. The only ones that are even marginally acceptable at all are
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of a writer and musician, who has no strong claim to passing either
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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have been provided spanning a decade of material from 2007-2017.
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coverage. Links have been removed or corrected, and multiple
400:— the only new sources I'm seeing here are press releases and
596:'s charting criterion. That requires charts on the order of
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that don't count as notability for the purposes of clearing
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list of
Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions
266:
list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions
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marginally acceptable sources — we require quite a bit
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article - not a press release, blog, or facebook post.
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reliable source coverage than just two short blurbs.
366:- but "out" LGBT Christian musical artists such as:
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531:been covered off by stronger sources, but cannot
294:list of Christianity-related deletion discussions
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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306:Note: This discussion has been included in the
292:Note: This discussion has been included in the
278:Note: This discussion has been included in the
264:Note: This discussion has been included in the
508:a reliable or notability-assisting source for
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308:list of Indiana-related deletion discussions
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440:Reference #4 - PrideSource Magazine (aka
396:I fail to see where you've added any new
663:nor give any indication of notability
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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224:coverage. This is referenced almost
386:as openly gay Christian musicians.
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624:by themselves as the article's
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728:Untitled Hymn (Come to Jesus)
665:as Knowledge (XXG) defines it
442:Between the Lines (newspaper)
324:. No evidence of notability.
699:19:54, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
685:16:10, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
654:03:08, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
642:22:11, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
486:20:54, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
418:17:36, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
342:19:17, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
314:10:38, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
300:10:38, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
286:10:38, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
272:10:38, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
258:22:15, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
70:03:32, 6 February 2018 (UTC)
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758:Please do not modify it.
580:9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 25 -
32:Please do not modify it.
547:self-published content.
614:South Florida Gay News
490:No, the above list is
426:South Florida Gay News
242:South Florida Gay News
424:Reference #1 - SFGN
620:, but they're not
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582:Non-notable
169:free images
670:Rivertorch
588:certified
404:blogs and
353:coverage,
327:Rivertorch
234:Amazon.com
56:CYBERPOWER
763:talk page
649:minutiae.
598:Billboard
594:WP:NMUSIC
577:" = blog.
575:WordPress
402:WordPress
380:Ray Boltz
218:WP:NMUSIC
214:WP:AUTHOR
37:talk page
765:or in a
746:contribs
734:unsigned
570:website.
406:Facebook
226:entirely
128:View log
39:or in a
691:Bearcat
634:Bearcat
563:notable
554:of the
550:17 - A
533:support
529:already
521:himself
410:Bearcat
355:Bearcat
250:Bearcat
238:YouTube
175:WP refs
163:scholar
101:protect
96:history
720:Delete
622:enough
552:repeat
510:anyone
378:, and
322:Delete
246:WP:GNG
210:WP:BLP
208:toned
147:Google
105:delete
64:Around
50:delete
724:WP:RS
678:WATER
661:WP:RS
567:media
525:after
506:never
335:WATER
190:JSTOR
151:books
135:Stats
122:views
114:watch
110:links
16:<
742:talk
695:talk
638:talk
630:more
626:only
616:and
610:none
606:None
586:IFPI
556:same
414:talk
347:Keep
254:talk
236:and
183:FENS
157:news
118:logs
92:talk
88:edit
545:own
492:not
228:to
216:or
197:TWL
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