149:, presumably based on his winning gold with Canada. G4 obviously is not applicable anymore, and I think it would be good to answer the question of whether being a World Junior gold medallist crosses the threshold to notability. It is not the highest competition in amateur sport, that would be the Olympics or World Senior Championships, but it is the highest competition in junior (U20) hockey. It is also an event with a ridiculously massive following in Canada, and often these players end up as household names even without playing pro. This is, therefore, a procedural nomination as I can think of several other players who carry similar notability to that of Subban.
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has ever won an award in an international event. Remember the news coverage has to be non-trivial, so it mentioning that he won a gold medal or that he was drafted does not cut it. There has to be articles about him. Also being drafted in an of itself is not notable as 210 kids are drafted every year, and most of those never play a single NHL game and a number of them never even play a professional game. -
630:- Samir's sources need to be added to the article, as well as others easily found via a Google search that meet the standard of being non-trivial. Failure to pass WP:ATHLETE is debatable — I'd argue that Canadian juniors are the highest amateur level — but immaterial, as he clearly passes WP:N and WP:BIO, which take precedence over the sub-guideline.
309:. I was the one who restored this, IAR as I thought the repeated G4 deletion was a farce (applied to an AfD from a year prior). Sourceable article of a 2nd round draft pick (43rd overall) of an NHL team, with two gold medals at the World Junior Hockey Championships, on the all-star team as a best defenceman of the 2009 tournament,
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This is an interesting case. This article was taken to AfD in
October 2007 when Subban was only a junior hockey player and second round draft pick. Typically, we at the hockey project have limited notability of junior players to first round draft picks, and/or those who have won a major award. At
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the subject will most likely meet notability criteria in the future, but he isn't there yet and if this is kept because he won gold at a junior level international tournament, it would open the floodgates for hundreds of other ice hockey players who doesn't meet the criteria for athletes but at one
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I know that, but information can't be added to it while it's deleted. That creates a lot of work (deleting, undeleting, adding any info missed while it was deleted) for our editors. It also creates this page which takes five minutes away from when I could be editing. Obviously I could go either way
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I would argue that the U20s are the highest level of amateur hockey in an international sense. The
Seniors are not amateur at all with the participation of the NHL etc. If NCAA players are allowed to stand on their own (as evidenced by the overwhelming number of football and basketball players with
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as his only claim to notability is the fact that he is a hockey player so you would have to look at his notability as an athlete. Since he has not played at the highest
Amateur level which time and time again precedance has been the Olympics or World Championships, he is not yet notable. Article
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per nom. The individual has not competed at the highest level of amateur competition which is the World
Championships or the Olympics. Articles on gold medal winning juniors in hockey and in many other sports have been deleted time and again. Keeping this one will open the door to every youth that
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for a particular category, yet still maintain notability based on other evidence. The news coverage includes many sourced articles about this player (not about playing at the world juniors), so a threshold of notability is clearly met. For those wanting to call for deletion based on policies,
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winning well-known important awards in competition is pretty much what notability for sportspeople is about. Trivial to find sourcing, and apparently joining the NHL - while this is not simple notability, an award winner + drafted to pro-Sports is notability beyond
271:. Many many individuals compete in international competitions. If they aren't the highest like the guideline indicates, they aren't notable enough. After the next Olympics, when Olympic teams are amateur, we won't have this problem. But right now, it's a grey area.
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the time Subban had not, and his article was recreated and G4 deleted several times. Since this AfD, Subban has been on two World Junior championship teams with Canada, but otherwise his status has not changed. An admin restored this article some time ago citing
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337:, I note that this has always been a guideline, and not policy; deletion decisions should be made in account of all of the evidence and not simply whether one meets the two listed criteria. --
558:- I would think that the world juniors would qualify as "top level of amateur", being as Olympic hockey really can't be seriously considered amateur when you have NHL players competing.
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But I do think the article needs improvement in the referencing. A quick search found a ton of stuff that could serve as useful references, so we need to get on this.
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for notability for hockey players. Time and time again players have been deleted that have played on gold medal junior teams. The subject is not notable per
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among many others), also played the NHL pre-season with the
Canadiens this year. I personally think it's a no-brainer to keep this. For those citing
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However, NHL players aren't paid to play and amateur players can still make the team for the World
Championships and have recently done so. -
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per Samir. Not only did the person win Gold and get drafted in the NHL, there are 4 detailed references about Subban to back it all up. -
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lines. This article is well-written and can easily be expanded or just as easily deleted in the future provided player continues to fail
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time won gold at junior ice hockey tournament. Basically; No exceptions, article can be created when he meets WP:ATHLETE criteria. —
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Article can also be undeleted should they finally meet the criteria. To leave it up thinking he might become notable is a case of
519:. Delete article content does not disappear after deletion so it can easily be undeleted should he finally meet the guidelines. -
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is the policy at play here. Given the multiple reliable sources listed above, I can't see how this merits deletion --
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can be recreated or undeleted when he becomes notable. -
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Knowledge (XXG)'s
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Articles for deletion/P. K. Subban (2nd nomination)
597:list of Living people-related deletion discussions
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136:) – (
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