373:, although I can't believe I'm defending Dragon Ball. The concept is important enough to Dragon Ball to warrant a seperate article. The article implies there's an "official" book detailing this stuff, and the other information is taken from the manga or anime directly. Therefore, I think the article is sourceable and the OR can be gotten rid off, and the speculation can be hacked out. It's a cleanup case, not a delete case, let's give the kiddies a chance to fix it. And while I just
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a rocket can go (given that the number is recorded) or how many episodes are in an anime. Its not mega important info but at the same time it is not info that no one cares about it is enyclopedic and factual not a bunch of fanon garbage. The
Daizenshu in fact consulted Akira Toriyama on the stuff they put in there it wasn't a bunch of Japanese Fanboys who decided to make a dragonball Z book. The Bottom line Power Levels are important and Factual and true. Period.
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sources, besides dc company?, and somebody wrote that the force was explaining by George Lucas and has a book and everything, Who anyway can prove that the force exist? its all fictional, if this page was made in Japan i bet nobody will suggest to delete it as nobody would touch Planet
Kripton from superman.
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If the
Daihenzu is the reason for which many of you want to delete this article, we can erase it and keep all the numbers that are in the manga, some ask for more references and sources, but for example Kripton, the planet when superman has born, has his own wikipedia page. Where are the reference or
1004:
did you just totally ignore the 7 lines of text up there? (no offense) The plot would be differnt without
Powerlevels because powerlevels are bascially showing your chi/Ki They would know ki/Chi exists because if they didn't there wouldn't be any scouters. Powerlevels are not a complete plot device;
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cannot sense KI/Chi so they have scouters that let them see how strong charecters are via numbers. These concepts are interwoven with Ki/Chi MAJOR AND KEY concepts to
Dragonball and Dragonball Z and GT. You also state that the list of Power levels should not be there. thats like not listing how fast
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It's unverified research. That's a VERY good reason. And from what I hear, Daizenshū's power levels didn't have any input from Bird Studio or TOEI. Most of the content is guide content, and the other content is original research that no one seems to be interested in verifying. Hell, does anything on
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is "The Force", like the rest of Star Wars, is culturally significant while "Power Level" is not. You can see references to the concept in TV, films and music. There's books on the philosophy behind the concept and its parallels to different religions. And, more importantly, there's documentation of
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Without power levels, Dragon ball plots would be without sense, Toriyama used it since Dragon ball and all the Saiyan Saga and Freeza Saga, the concept of ki is real in Asia, and other mangas use similar " inner power" to explain the grow of charaters strengh, in real world the more we train, more
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Ok forgeting the beforementioned conversation about powerlevels what is wrong with powerlevels they are in the manga and are a key part of DB and DBZ and DBGT they help the reader understand exactly how powerful a charecter is instead of "What powerful Chi/Ki" no they don't have a direct effect on
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If some independant, fact-checked sources on the subject could be found, I would support stripping this down to a sourced stub, as from my limited understanding, the relative power levels of the characters are important to the customiseable card game and at least the early seasons of the DBZ anime
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Ahahaha. See, here's the thing - DBZ will never even be able to compare to the popularity of Star Wars in any scenario. Star Wars is so unbelievably, immensely popular that someone made a Star Wars Jedi training school in
Romania. All DBZ has is people putting on big plastic hair and fake Karategi
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A CONVERSATION ABOUT POWER LEVELS IS NOT IMPORTANT. And no, we should NOT list them for the sake of completeness. Under your logic, everything that ever existed or ever could exist should be listed simply to make
Knowledge complete. So what, if there were no power levels, Vegeta would have killed
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But Dragon Ball is not just any anime, is the most popular manga-anime in the world. Europe, South
America, Spain, France, Asia,etc. and even in your country. That you dislike it doesnt change the fact that millions love it, and even if the power levels numbers are erased, the article could
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And? That does not mean that they don't require sources and OOU info. It just means no one has bothered to do anything about it, or they have none, like this page. A page is required to have them; if there's a good possibility for them, the page is kept, if not, it's deleted.
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There is no reason to delete this article the concept of ki scouters and power levels is a key part of
Dragonball Z all the power levels are from reliable sources just because the power levels stop later in the series doesn't mean its not important. no reason to delete this.
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Well, I believe this article should exist in it's entirety (with some obvious cleanup). However, if we are forced to merge (even though it seems like we won't be reaching a consensus here) this is clearly the best action to take as the power levels are certainly notable.
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No reference to how this fictional concept fits into the real world. Fictional concepts are not separate from their source material unless they have some sort of importance outside of their fictional universe that is at least partially separate from their source.
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fit and strong we are, thats is the teaching part in
Toriyama´s Dragon Ball manga, never believe you are the best, you allways find someone that is better, so keep improving your abilities, i am done, the article only needs improving in my opinion.
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Power levels are important in showing the character's current power. If they did not exist, the only difference is that no characters would KNOW your power level. Are you implying that the plot would be different without the lack of power levels? -
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don't take this personally but thats just rediculus base stats of pokemon are completely random. There are 400-something pokemon but there are only 40 or so power levels max stated in dragonball. thats a huge difference.
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It is a guide. It is an anime guide on power levels. The rest of the content is original research. This has been at the AfD four times - first time it was deleted, but someone revived it without going through deletion
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I know but that page is seriously out of control and its a list of attacks not an article explaining Ki. NOt all attacks use Ki/Chi. we seriously should just keep the article and fix it maybe add a couple of sources.
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I see well I guess since there are no web sites that foucus on powerlevels and the Daizenshuu isn't an internet source I Guess I'll have to give this up. Thanks for letting me see where I was going wrong. Thanks :D
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How are numbers more important than "characters" in a very popular franchise? Just give it up. You're just grasping for straws at this point. There are no possible references beyond basic "ki=energy=pl" things.
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How is it nonsense? its part of Dragonball Z its not a fan made term Akira Toriyama put it in there. So what if the Daizenshu didn't consult Toei or Bird Studio they didn't create dragonball Akira Toriyama did.
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They are not important in the least. They're just a plot thing to show who's stronger than who used for one and a half arcs/sagas. The rest is unimportant also, and can be cut and placed elsewhere.
253:. So much original research that nothing on the article can even verify that the subject actually exists in any form. Also, the list of all power levels in the series is completely unnecessary. -
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Yes but its a video game any information will probably help people play the game. Guide information would be more like a good move set for a pokemon or what abilities are best, stuff like that.
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Its not all original research just look at the scouter part. Why would the Dragonball article cover Chi/KI its huge already KI/chi deserves its own page we just need to delete the fancruft.
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Yes that is true but this one does, there is no reason for this to be deleted it has the right information and has many other articles merged in. It just needs a bit of a tune up thats all.
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what? I never said they were more important than the charecters. But they are important. They measure a charecter's power. Also its not just numbers it has scouters and Ki in there too!
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The page is fairly pointless. It seems to just be various paragraphs restating information in slightly different ways. One relevent paragraph can just be salvaged and merged elsewhere.
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series of manga and anime and as such would be hard to merge into just one of the articles it affects. It is also important to other post-Dragonball martial arts manga/anime such as
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ALTtP, I think you are mistaking Popularity for Notability. This is still notable as Dragonball is a very popular universe. Therefore, the argument (albeit crude) is still accurate.
1068:. The concept is not as important to Dragonball as people may think. It is not used during the DB half of the series, and it is only relevant to the Saiyan and Freeza arcs of DBZ.--
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If you gave us anything to shoot down, we'd provide proof that it's unimportant. However! You have not done so. So you don't have to prove anything, but we must prove everything?
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1. It's not important. It's just a detailed description of characters' powers. Is it necessary for us to know that some character has a power level of NINE THOUUUUUSAAAAAAND?
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Well I can see that kind of material in a lot of pages, many fictional pages do not really need this kind of info. In other words its not really worth deleting a page over.
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No, it's barely notable in the series. It's a simple plot device to say who's stronger than who, used for only one and a half arcs. Nothing would be different without it.
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Thats like saiying why its nesesary to list all the pokemon but we have them all listed. Its not like its listing any power levels that were not stated in the manga.
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Well actually Pokemon Base stats are on some pages I think on manaphy and a few others. you know pokemon base stats wouldn't be so bad on those pages good idea.
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The manga is the principal source for the power levels until the Freeza Saga, this is a fictional page, so is hard to find more sources than the manga itself.
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They are not random. A Pikachu at level 1 has the same base stats as another Pikachu at level 1. The sun setting is about as random as Pokémon base stats. -
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This is relevant to a massively popular manga/anime series. I have used this article myself for research before. Just needs cleanup, which I'm happy to do.
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1259:, has minimal sources and much original research. Although it's clear the author(s) put a lot of effort into it. Is there a Dragonball Wikia yet? --
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Sorry if that wasn't clear. To simplify: an encyclopedia articles must cover the out of universe significance of a subject. This article does not. --
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Ok so they may not be uber important but can't we just list them delete the repeditive stuff expand the scouter section and call it a reborn article?
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48:. Most of the keep arguments were based on "this exists" or "this is important" rather than addressing the reason that the article was nominated. --
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its useful information though if it needs to be deleted at least keep the upper part of the article with a little tune up it could be pretty good.
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No, I didn't. Star Wars has worldwide popularity, and I assure you that shows such as Star Wars and Star Trek are much bigger than DBZ in Asia. -
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the article even show that the subject is real in Dragon Ball? No - not a single link, not a single source. None of the images even verify it. -
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Why does this one warrant an article? Most of it is a guide. Can you give me a single reason why it is necessary that it has an article? -
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Because it's guide content. Have you ever explained why it is necessary to know every single powere ever recorded in the entire series? -
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Except that it is guide content. It is not necessary to know their base stats. That's content used for forming a great Pokémon team. -
294:(about a screen's worth, all of which must be sourced). Failing someone with the required interest willing to step up and do that,
381:, just as a note, let's not let personal dislike for the series taint our judgment, mmmkay? Or personal like, for that matter. --
674:. You have not shown any necessity for there to be a list of every recorded power level, so why are you even arguing anymore? -
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they are there to let the reader how strong a charecter is in numeracal form. We should list them for the sake of completenes.
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Chi/Ki in dragonball does much more than real life Ki/chi it lets charecters use energy attacks, determines thier power etc.
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Lucas' inspiration for the concept... Not so much on "Power Level," is there? So, it isn't really fair to compare the two.--
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So are you saying that this article needs to have information about the significance of powerlevels in the real world?
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Maybe we can add small sections to character pages and lists listing their PL instead of having the list there. -
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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and yelling Kamehameha. Ask someone what "The Force" is, chances are that they will know. Power level? Nope. -
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Yes it should have sourced information regarding the cultural significance of Power Levels if there is any. --
310:- Per above. Also, since the power levels stop after a while, it really isn't possible to expand the article--
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came before DBZ; so it be kind of difficult for DBZ's concept of "Power Level" to have an influence on it.--
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Imagine if Star War's Force was a messy article, we'd insist it just needs cleaning, rather than deletion.
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Also, if power levels are important, does that also mean that the base stats of each Pokémon are too? -
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primarily due to OR concerns, although Knowledge isn't an anime guide, just like it's not a game guide.
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yes but that article doesn't just cover power levels it also covers Chi/Ki a key DRagonball Concept.
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everyone and Freeza would rule the universe and destroy Earth before Buu or Cell could become? -
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film, but you don't see them giving a personalized definition of it. Besides, that's what the
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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4. Yes. 100% original research and anime guide cruft. That's a GREAT reason to delete. -
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No, they aren't. This isn't a dumping ground for every anime guide in the universe. -
1430:. The long list of Dragonball power levels should be excised as it is hard to verify.
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well, DB run since 1984 and saint seiya since 1986. but yes it does not influence it.
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Your forgeting no powerlevels means no Scouters. many charecters can't sense chi.
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as this level of detail is better suited for a wiki dedicated to the subject.
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Its not a guide its half list and half article thats all. Its necesary because
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See, here's what you miss - power levels are unencyclopedic on Knowledge. -
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3.Its not overrun with fancruft or anything its a perfectally good article.
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1037:"They exist" isn't an argument for inclusion. It needs to be verified. --
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The fact that they acknowledge power levels does not equal importance. -
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Only for content that's going to be deleted, article kept or deleted. -
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Yeah, there is one. I'm pretty sure they have this over there already.
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2.Its not just on power levels it also has scouters and Ki/Chi mixed in
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ex: this is the Conversation between Goku and Ginyu before they fight
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Hey!! I was trying to say the same thing but you beat me to it. :) --
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And no reason has ever been given to explain WHY it's important. -
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see? The absense of power levels changed the whole conversation!
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Goku: This is nothing compared to when I use my power in bursts!
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Fun question: What would change if power levels did not exist? -
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What do you mean deleted? the list of Power levels is just fine.
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Many articles don't have sources but are still fine just look at
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Oh? I don't see many sources to make it not original research. -
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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Hm, I don't know, how about the giant attack page that we have?
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we could easily fix up the article instead of just deleting it.
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Knowledge is not an anime guide on obscure, unverified concepts
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Goku: Thats nothing compared to when I use my power in bursts
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merged to where? we have no article like this anywhere else.
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Knowledge is not an indiscriminate collection of information
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3. It's not? 100% original research and anime guide cruft.
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519:. Anywhay the Daizenshu could be considered a source.
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Not every anime term warrants an article, you know. -
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This is an important overarching concept to all the
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Ok let me explain this to you. many charecters like
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help! I am being squashed against the right margin!
1371:Regarding the "Influence on other series" section:
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
122:Original research synthesis on a concept from the
822:. It's actually an important part of the series.
1545:). No further edits should be made to this page.
908:Ginyu: Whats this 80,000 90,000 100,000 110,000
1426:article under a heading called something like
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1092:. Ki is part of other martial arts anime or
476:2. The Dragon Ball article can cover ki/chi.
1357:Where are the references in the article? --
923:Now try this version with out powerlevels
377:that this doesn't describe anyone around
1332:Unfortunately this does not address the
448:1.its an important dragonball Z concept
130:of any kind, as far as I can tell. --
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126:universe. No information drawn from
859:No reason has been given to why it
457:4.Is there any reason to delete it?
181:You forgot about the continent of
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1422:aspect into a new section in the
911:Ginyu: 120,000 and still rising!
1028:the plot they help the reader.
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
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938:Ginyu: now he's really red!
147:Preceding comment added by
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226:Power level (Dragon Ball)
141:it just needs cleaning up
72:Power level (Dragon Ball)
64:Power level (Dragon Ball)
1538:Please do not modify it.
932:Ginyu: hes turning red
32:Please do not modify it.
1414:etc. I propose merging
935:Ginyu: Redder Reddest!
1310:comment was added by
701:comment was added by
222:The Force (Star Wars)
1283:Okey-dokey then. --
1510:A Link to the Past
1488:A Link to the Past
1017:A Link to the Past
994:A Link to the Past
959:A Link to the Past
877:A Link to the Past
849:A Link to the Past
676:A Link to the Past
652:A Link to the Past
631:A Link to the Past
609:A Link to the Past
551:A Link to the Past
530:A Link to the Past
505:A Link to the Past
484:A Link to the Past
435:A Link to the Past
414:A Link to the Past
346:A Link to the Past
255:A Link to the Past
189:A Link to the Past
171:A Link to the Past
149:User:164.106.13.69
1420:fighting strength
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1225:Daniel J. Leivick
1197:Daniel J. Leivick
1179:Daniel J. Leivick
1156:Daniel J. Leivick
1102:article is for.--
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873:
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218:The difference
120:
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66:
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42:
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25:
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15:
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1432:Coder Keitaro
1429:
1428:Qi in fiction
1425:
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979:Captain Ginyu
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517:Future Trunks
514:
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292:
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267:
266:Strong delete
264:
262:
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252:
251:Strong delete
249:
235:
232:
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47:
40:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
1537:
1534:
1474:
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1463:
1458:
1445:
1427:
1419:
1415:
1411:
1407:
1403:
1391:
1386:
1350:
1336:concerns. --
1300:
1256:
1163:
1150:
1138:
1126:
1097:
1089:
1077:
1065:
946:
943:
940:
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927:
925:
922:
919:
916:
913:
910:
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901:
898:
860:
827:bibliomaniac
824:
823:
819:
773:
390:
378:
374:
370:
358:
331:Don't Delete
330:
319:
314:
307:
295:
273:
265:
250:
217:
146:
145:
140:
132:Slowking Man
121:
45:
43:
31:
28:
1446:Strong Keep
1373:Saint Seiya
1285:Merovingian
1261:Merovingian
1257:Weak delete
904:power level
863:important.
124:Dragon Ball
1501:StayinAnon
1408:Dragonball
1396:StayinAnon
201:StayinAnon
1312:Ykkifenix
1141:per nom.
1131:Mr. Berry
395:Acalamari
383:UsaSatsui
1479:DBZROCKS
1377:Nohansen
1320:contribs
1308:unsigned
1235:DBZROCKS
1206:DBZROCKS
1188:DBZROCKS
1168:DBZROCKS
1113:DBZROCKS
1104:Nohansen
1082:DBZROCKS
1070:Nohansen
1030:DBZROCKS
1007:DBZROCKS
984:DBZROCKS
949:DBZROCKS
865:DBZROCKS
806:DBZROCKS
787:DBZROCKS
711:contribs
703:Grutness
699:unsigned
688:DBZROCKS
664:DBZROCKS
643:DBZROCKS
622:DBZROCKS
600:DBZROCKS
582:DBZROCKS
563:DBZROCKS
542:DBZROCKS
521:DBZROCKS
496:DBZROCKS
462:DBZROCKS
426:DBZROCKS
405:DBZROCKS
336:DBZROCKS
300:saberwyn
231:Nohansen
220:between
116:View log
1475:Comment
1359:Deskana
1338:Deskana
1164:Comment
1090:Comment
1078:comment
1039:Deskana
470:review.
153:Deskana
89:protect
84:history
50:Deskana
1513:(talk)
1491:(talk)
1449:BrenDJ
1412:Naruto
1404:Smerge
1363:(talk)
1342:(talk)
1166:What?
1151:Delete
1143:Edison
1139:Delete
1127:Delete
1066:Delete
1043:(talk)
1020:(talk)
997:(talk)
975:Freeza
962:(talk)
880:(talk)
852:(talk)
774:Delete
679:(talk)
655:(talk)
634:(talk)
612:(talk)
554:(talk)
533:(talk)
508:(talk)
487:(talk)
438:(talk)
417:(talk)
391:Delete
363:Arkyan
359:Delete
349:(talk)
308:Delete
296:delete
258:(talk)
192:(talk)
174:(talk)
157:(talk)
93:delete
54:(talk)
46:Delete
1529:stay.
1459:Merge
1094:wuxia
971:Nappa
861:isn't
298:. --
284:talk?
110:views
102:watch
98:links
16:<
1418:the
1416:only
1392:Keep
1334:WP:V
1316:talk
1301:Keep
1289:Talk
1276:Nemu
1265:Talk
1216:Nemu
977:and
928:Aura
820:Keep
796:Nemu
778:Nemu
707:talk
591:Nemu
573:Nemu
379:here
375:know
371:Keep
224:and
210:Nemu
183:Asia
106:logs
80:talk
76:edit
1465:DDF
276:TBC
272:.--
114:– (
1424:Qi
1322:)
1318:•
1287:※
1263:※
1154:--
1099:Qi
973:,
713:)
709:•
320:IT
315:SU
268:.
151:.
108:|
104:|
100:|
96:|
91:|
87:|
82:|
78:|
1326:.
1314:(
837:5
832:1
717:.
705:(
280:Φ
118:)
112:)
74:(
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