1046:-- if this is being presented as a medical condition, then there need to be MEDRS compliant sources. People reporting something on an internet forum does not make it a real medical condition, it's just more people stating boring opinions on the internet (**hypocrisy alert**). The blog and the Dr Oz show are definitely not suitable sources, I can't assess the book, but it's using terms like "sexual brain maps" I wonder how mainstream it is... per above comment from a reliable editor, a search for sources on PubMed, google scholar did not find anything on this supposed condition. Redirect is only appropriate if a MEDRS source can be found to support some of this content ... unless ... there is potential mention of this based upon these same sources in "society and culture" sections of
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anti-pornography moralistic views, who is making up some stories about how pornography gave them erectile dysfunction? We simply don't, and this is why it is not reliable evidence. Some of the sources used in this stub may regard things people say on internet forums as reliable evidence that there is a issue here, and I think this rightly leads us to conclude that those sources are unreliable. Maybe some researchers might give this attention in the years to come, and maybe someone will publish a reliable secondary source citing that research. At that point, not before, wikipedia should create an article on the topic.
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rationale. The wording I posted above (in the box) I feel is an improvement on the wording we have currently, which suggests that it is a real medical condition. I would prefer such wording if the content were to be kept and moved to the society and culture sections of the parent articles, to make absolutely clear there is no formal research and the only commentary on the supposed phenomenon is non scientific. If we keep the content, we should not describe it as more than it is, and my wording better reflects what is actually going on here.
667:. I agree with the IP, and this article should be deleted or, in case MEDRS-compliant sources are found for it or eventually exist to support it, redirected to the Erectile dysfunction article. The matter can be sufficiently covered in that article once, if ever, it has MEDRS-compliant sources to support it. I would suggest merging, but there is apparently nothing valid to merge. The view that the sources used for this information on Knowledge thus far are unreliable is additionally supported by
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don't have a huge problem with this content as long as it is not making out that it is a real medical condition, which is what it is doing currently. Phrasing I suggested above might be better if the content is merged, and the locations would be most appropriate in the society and culture section of either pornography and/or erectile dysfunction. That is assuming that the sources meet RS.
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matter, but the phenomenon of self-diagnosed ED appears to have been covered by enough RSes to be notable. I understand that the first sentence of the article would be circular if it meant that ED can really be caused by porn, but it doesn't and that's the point. It defines this thing as when someone says they got ED from porn and makes no judgement as to whether that's true. --
1123:"Pornography-induced erectile dysfunction" is a term used by some sources to refer to a supposed phenomena informally reported by individuals in internet forums. These individuals claimed that they experienced erectile problems as a result of heavy pornography use. However, there is no credible evidence for the existence of such a disorder.
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by a country mile, and thus should not have its own article here as if to imply it is a real medical condition. The only halfway-reputable-sounding reference in the article, from
Psychology Today, turns out to be from a sort of advice column rather than any kind of study - and everything else I found
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applies to the history and society and culture sections of medical pages. This would be the appropriate way to document a "meme" and present it as it is rather than presenting it as a medical condition when it is not. I would alter the wording of such content to reflect the lack of medical sources,
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In answer to your original Q, no I don't have such a source. When I mentioned a cultural phenomenon rather than a scientific, I was sort of summarizing the counter argument that had already been offered, as a comment on the recent delete "votes" which used the absence of MEDRS compliant sources as
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Thank you for looking up that book source. I think the counter argument to this point that is being made above is that this is a cultural phenomena ("meme") rather than a scientific one, and as such, naturally there are no MEDRS compliant sources, but it still may be notable as a cultural thing. I
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Some were suggesting merging this content to erectile dysfunction. I wanted to ensure that if it was merged, better wording was used. I disagree that such wording would be giving it currency when we are just stating what evidence, or in this case lack of evidence, exists. If people don't find the
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Ideally would need a source to say there is no formal scientific evidence, as I mentioned above... and such a statement might constitute OR without a supporting source. I guess I feel that if there is no evidence for something, I would rather
Knowledge say there is no evidence than not discuss it
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The RS is Psych Today, which is not a MEDRS but is an RS for the fact that hundreds of men are reporting this phenomenon. It. is not self-published, and there is no requirement for RSes to not be internet based. Of course the men saying porn caused there ED have no scientific reliability on the
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That point didn't make sense to me. If not notable for inclusion on either erectile dysfunction or pornography how can it be notable for its own page? Content which was worded and sourced appropriately and given due weight in either article (within the society and culture section) might be
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that it is, allows people to say whatever they want with no requirement for any evidence or accountability. It also allows one or two people with non-mainstream opinions to appear to be many people by the creation of sock puppets. How do we know this is not a single person with religious,
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by leaps and bounds. Perhaps the title and or wording should be changed to indicate it is not a medically established fact. Broadening the topic may be helpful. Other forms of sexual dysfunction are also associated (maybe not scientificially, but still) with excessive porn viewing.
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There are a ton of articles on fringery, because they meet GNG, but UNDUE says we keep it off the main page of a legit topic to avoid giving it undue legitimacy. It would be good if there were better sources, but I'm arguing that sufficient sources exist for GNG.
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There is no need to show it. None of the concerns are about notability or intrinsic unsuitability of the topic, the nomination therefore asks for cleanup. About doing it myself, I don't think I am knowledgeable enough on the topic, nor sure of
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I would hesitate before drawing parallels with the above article, which has a wealth of formal scientific research, albeit concluding that it doesn't exist, whereas this topic has no research that has been brought forward in this discussion.
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I think it was obvious that the reporting meant was men reporting their condition on internet forums, but I have edited it again to read "...is the inability to develop or maintain an erection purportedly caused by heavy pornography use."
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The trouble is, you would need a source to state the lack of evidence, otherwise arguably it is OR. Might be best to wait for some formal research to appear (if indeed that ever happens) before trying to build content about this topic.
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Is this post intended to be a reply to my question? If so, you seem to have misunderstood what I'm asking. It was suggested above that 'pornography-induced erectile dysfunction' was notable as a specific type of 'cultural thing' - an
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There are concerns about the notability of the topic. None of the sources is reliable per MEDRS, and so far no searches have yielded any reliable sources either. As
Knowledge defines it, this suggests a notability issue.
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as it can not be made neutrally without implying that
Pornography-induced erectile dysfunction exists despite no MEDRS source stating that. Symptomatic of this is that despite 5 days at AfD, the article still fails
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I only drew the parallel with respect to the definition, which is something defined by people saying their symptoms are caused by a particular (dubious) source. You (the IP) called that circular. --
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My proposed wording also doesn't describe it as an internet meme/cultural phenomenon, so you wouldn't need a source to explicitly state that, although I agree that would be the implication.
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As noted the blog and the tv show are not reliable. This purports to be a medical condition, and the sourcing is clearly inadequate for that. what is left is half a paragraph from the book
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Per above discussion, it has been suggested that this topic meets GNG but the sources are not MEDRS compliant. The wording I used does not state that this topic is notable as something.
1275:, marginal sources are in use, and they have been used inappropriately to extend one author's opinion to medical causation. The notion should be removed from Knowledge until/unless a
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If the content is kept, and if the sources are indeed meeting RS but not MEDRS (as suggested above a few times), then this wording is better than what we have at the moment.
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as creator. I have edited the article to address the concerns mentioned here. The subject is definitely notable as a meme, and it is usually called by the article title. --
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If you mean the "term used by some sources" proposal, you are basing your claim to notability on WP:OR. Again, you must have a source that suggests it is a notable term.
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246:, the topic does not appear notable enough for a stand-alone article. If reliable medical sources can be produced on the topic, the information could be added into the
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If it were at ED, it'd be removed as fringe and undue. But if it is notable fringiness, which I think is demonstrated by the existing refs, then it deserves a page. --
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663:, per my and others' comments at the article's talk page that support deleting or redirecting it. Like I stated there: "As the IP knows, I'm the one who started the
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answer they were looking for on wikipedia, they will just go to less responsible sources. Not a particularly encyclopedic reason for wanting to keep the content.
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Could you demonstrate how by editing the page? I don't see any unambiguous way of doing that: the page title itself clearly implies a clinical condition—
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cleanup to do, to help now. But I could try later. However it is the nominator who is worried about the article: she/he should start working on it. --
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718:"Pornography-induced erectile dysfunction or impotence is the reported inability to develop or maintain an erection caused by heavy pornography use"
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all. People will just go elsewhere to less responsible sources for advice. Appreciate what I just said probably isn't supported by any policy.
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My posting this should not be construed as a !vote or commentary on the merits or demerits of this debate. —/
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Unlike here, Google
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and do not redirect. I completely agree with the IP nominator and with IRWolfie. This topic fails
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Imo, invigorating a medical internet meme by giving it currency on WP based merely on
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Can you cite any sources that discuss this as an example of a 'cultural thing'?
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With respect, I think the line of reasoning in that rebuttal speaks for itself.
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Since when is people reporting things on internet forums a reliable source for
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requirements and makes claims about
Pornography-induced erectile dysfunction,
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is just laymen (no pun intended) speculating and talking in generalities. --
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1255:. If any real reliable sources become available, can be discussed there.
225:. Additionally, the current title does not appear on either GoogleScholar
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Forgot which user I borrowed this quote from, but it has stuck with me)
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1391:. For this so, at minimum we'd have to have a source that actually
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Then do it. Clean the article! Show it can be done through action,
545:) above. All concerns of nom can be solved by editing, and as such
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
549:. If the title is misleading, it can be moved to a new title. --
644:. I don't think this is notable enough without enough sources.
1640:. The article purports to be about a medical topic, but fails
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The concerns are by no means addressed in the current version
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in that it's defined by a self-diagnosed causitive effect. --
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list of
Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions
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I don't disagree, but that can be addressed via editing.
1184:. But without any WP:MEDRS sourcing, that is untenable.
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list of
Behavioural science-related deletion discussions
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Then what are you suggesting the topic is notable as?
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is contrary to
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appropriate. I would personally phrase it like this:
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
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1052:pornography
882:meaningless
728:to verify.
531:, also per
163:free images
1667:WP:POVFORK
1164:Editor2286
1095:Editor2286
1031:Editor2286
941:Editor2286
905:Editor2286
745:Editor2286
722:key aspect
698:Editor2286
647:Beerest355
1719:talk page
1234:IRWolfie-
726:difficult
673:this edit
669:this edit
572:IRWolfie-
476:• Gene93k
456:• Gene93k
436:• Gene93k
416:• Gene93k
314:, NOT an
221:and fail
219:anecdotal
37:talk page
1721:or in a
1642:WP:MEDRS
1310:MelanieN
1305:WP:MEDRS
1277:WP:MEDRS
1249:Redirect
1230:WP:MEDRS
1217:WP:MEDRS
1060:WP:MEDRS
988:WP:MEDRS
773:anything
711:Comment.
661:Redirect
638:Redirect
594:cyclopia
554:cyclopia
543:contribs
533:Gaijin42
506:contribs
496:Gaijin42
345:Gaijin42
295:Gaijin42
223:WP:MEDRS
215:PsycINFO
122:View log
39:or in a
1283:Georgia
1259:Georgia
1225:WP:NPOV
1050:and/or
681:Flyer22
308:Comment
268:endaliv
169:WPÂ refs
157:scholar
95:protect
90:history
1659:Delete
1638:Delete
1597:Lesion
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1301:Delete
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1221:WP:GNG
1209:Delete
1143:Lesion
1071:Lesion
1044:Delete
958:Lesion
853:Lesion
784:Lesion
677:Jytdog
611:Lesion
384:Delete
290:WP:GNG
250:page.
141:Google
99:delete
50:delete
1688:Merge
1281:Sandy
1257:Sandy
1065:WP:OR
1056:WP:RS
184:JSTOR
145:books
129:Stats
116:views
108:watch
104:links
16:<
1700:talk
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694:Keep
685:talk
671:and
652:Talk
619:talk
587:what
576:talk
537:talk
529:Keep
520:talk
515:Cirt
500:talk
492:Keep
480:talk
460:talk
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324:talk
299:talk
286:Keep
257:talk
177:FENS
151:news
112:logs
86:talk
82:edit
1690:to
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675:by
640:to
275:Δ's
191:TWL
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