309:: A parliamentarian is an expert on parliamentary procedure who advises organizations and deliberative assemblies. This sense of the term "parliamentarian" is distinct from the usage of the same term to mean a member of Parliament. Parliamentarians are expected to be experts in meeting procedures and such books as Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised as well as the rules of the body they are working for." --
769:. The references were badly formatted, enough to make them all look the same, but they include stories about her music in major newspapers from different states in different years with her name in the headline (I'm not counting the marriage and death notices), and a somewhat telegraphic but nevertheless in-depth profile in a biographical dictionary. I think that's enough for
741:
Not sure when the argument that there are not sources came out. The point has always been that the way how the sources were researched is wrong. There are plenty of sources, in print and with the name of DuPuy in the headline. Therefore if, as per previous comment, "print-only sources do count toward
229:
Pearlretta Weller DuPuy was a parliamentarian in a time when women had hardly rights. She was a charter member of the Los
Angeles Women's Athletic Club and Ebell of Los Angeles, which are two of the more important Women's Club in California history. She was the president of the San Pedro Woman's Club
615:
pointed out, searching for women, especially historic women requires more skill than a google search for one name. As for the "mentions in modern scholarship" that is not a requirement on WP. She meets GNG, as there is enough coverage in independent reliable sources which cover the subject over time
426:
you are searching in the wrong way unfortunately at the time there was no use of first name for women. If you search for "mrs. Robert g. Dupuy" you have more hits... this is the result of how women were treated beginning of the XX century. And more than google books a better source for these figures
194:
Poorly sourced biography of a person whose only discernible claim of notability is that she was a member of almost entirely non-notable local clubs. And the only sources here are a 100-word blurb in a biographical dictionary of mostly non-notable people, and a family genealogy in which she's briefly
539:
I tried varies searches along the lines of what Elisa.rolle suggested but have found essentially nothing. For a genuinely notable subject from late 19th-early 20th century one would expect to find more examples of later and more recent coverage, including some mentions in modern scholarship, etc.
653:
A lot of recentism and IDONTLIKEIT in this debate. The historic sources are print, and if they were 21st century, we'd have more than enough to establish WP:GNG. Just because the Zither is not an electric guitar or that the coverage has a society column tone does not mean that there was no
393:
635:. Despite the hard work that has been put into the media searches, nothing of enough significance to confer notability has been found. Recognition of teaching the zither, a worthy activity that contributes to society, is not enough for notability.
389:, unless examples of more substantial coverage can be provided. References number 2, 3, 4, 5 currently listed in the article are just brief mentions. The only current source providing more substantial coverage is ref no. 1 on p. 39,
163:
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while not substantial, also indicates that she was of interest in more than just a local area. (I actually found several references in
Waterloo, Iowa though most were simply social visits to the area). As
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per previous editors; locating extensive sources on these historic figures is often difficult; that this one appears in a number of major, reputable listings establishes adequate indicia of notability.
520:
Thank you for the immense effort that you have but into this BIO. You have established that the person existed but unfortunately the references are all trivial. Extistence does not confer notability.
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to apply strict notability and sourcing standards to men while letting women into
Knowledge (XXG) just because they can be nominally verified as having been vice-president of a local social club.
392:. It is a brief biographical entry, about 6 sentences/approximately 80 words total. GoggleBooks and GoogleScholar searches do not produce anything else of relevance except one brief mention here
790:
Recentism applies here and makes it more difficult to establish notability, but David
Eppstein, SusunW and others have established enough coverage in reliable sources for this article to meet
116:
207:, and she has no notability claim strong enough to exempt her from having to clear GNG. As important as it is to address Knowledge (XXG)'s gender imbalance, the way to do that is
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Knowledge (XXG) does not have any rule that our sources have to be published online; print-only sources do count toward GNG. But we do have a rule that sources have to be
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688:, it remains that there are no in-depth sources to support this biography. The fact that sources cannot be found has never been taken to prove that they must exist.
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confer an automatic notability freebie on every (or any) individual member (or president, or vice-president) of it, if that member is not
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per several previous editors. For me it's the biographical dictionary that does it once and for all - it indicates to me that she was
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sense of the word that can turn "parliamentarian" into a notability claim in and of itself. A "Parliamentary Club" is a
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club, not a legislative body, so being a member or vice-president of it is completely orthogonal to whether women had
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notability in the time. The article has multiple third-party sources independent of the subject. It is adequate.
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for being president of a local library's weekly book club even though she never actually wrote anything herself.
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in her own right. And whatever the "Robert
Parliamentary Club" is, it wasn't an elected national or subnational
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746:. on Archive.org you have print books with DuPuy in them. on Newspapers.com there are plenty of articles.
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and first vice-president of the Robert
Parliamentary Club. Those are not "non-notable local clubs".
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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exist somewhere, because anybody could simply claim that about anything whatsoever. I could
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indicated that the subject used "Pearl" as a diminutive. Searching under Pearl
Severance,
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indicates that she had recognition in Iowa, California and
Arizona as a zither player.
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to create a fairly comprehensive biography without performing original research.
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Could you give a link to make these searches on as I can't find much yet?
251:. Regardless of whether a social club is notable or not as an entity, it
271:— so being a member of it doesn't make her a "parliamentarian" in the
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rights at the time or not — it's like saying that a person gets over
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as per comment below, they are still using male-oriented logic. --
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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There is evidence that the biography should be allowed to grow.
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to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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newspapers.com "mrs robert dupuy" (1883 to 1939) (16 hits):
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list of
Academics and educators-related deletion discussions
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newspapers.com "mrs r. g. dupuy" (1883 to 1939) (38 hits):
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GNG", than as stated by others before, this article meet
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namechecked on a single page — which means she isn't the
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list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions
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and get her into
Knowledge (XXG) if I didn't have to
924:Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,
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notable enough to make it into a book like that. --
184:
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
972:). No further edits should be made to this page.
867:list of California-related deletion discussions
486:newspapers.com "mrs robert g. dupuy" (9 hits):
52:. Based on the consensus of this discussion.
8:
865:Note: This debate has been included in the
845:Note: This debate has been included in the
466:archive.org "mrs robert g. dupuy" (2 hits):
366:Note: This debate has been included in the
347:Note: This debate has been included in the
328:Note: This debate has been included in the
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501:newspapers.com pearlretta dupuy (1 hits):
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330:list of Women-related deletion discussions
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471:archive.org "mrs robert dupuy" (6 hits):
349:list of Iowa-related deletion discussions
476:archive.org "mrs r. g. dupuy" (2 hits):
481:archive.org pearlretta dupuy (2 hits):
707:to exist. It is not enough to simply
606:indicates she taught the instrument.
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
719:that somebody wrote a book about my
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427:is archive.com or newspaper.com.
395:. As things stand, does not pass
275:sense of the word, which is the
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307:Parliamentarian (consultant)
249:Notability is not inherited
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540:That's not the case here.
259:the subject of sufficient
820:- Agree with comments by
961:Please do not modify it.
199:of anywhere near enough
32:Please do not modify it.
811:historically notable.
896:Ser Amantio di Nicolao
680:Regardless of whether
711:that better sources
902:Lo dicono a Signa.
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311:Elisa.rolle
269:legislature
232:Elisa.rolle
158:free images
822:Cwmhiraeth
796:Cwmhiraeth
690:Xxanthippe
682:WP:ILIKEIT
637:Xxanthippe
522:Xxanthippe
461:Xxanthippe
447:Xxanthippe
273:legislator
966:talk page
947:Montanabw
871:• Gene93k
851:• Gene93k
662:Montanabw
559:WP:NEXIST
289:WP:AUTHOR
285:political
54:Alex Shih
37:talk page
968:or in a
916:Relisted
713:probably
670:contribs
658:unsigned
117:View log
39:or in a
830:Scanlan
828:above.
729:Bearcat
709:presume
293:Bearcat
257:herself
213:Bearcat
197:subject
164:WP refs
152:scholar
90:protect
85:history
824:&
792:WP:GNG
771:WP:GNG
744:WP:GNG
633:Delete
618:SusunW
401:WP:BIO
397:WP:GNG
387:Delete
281:social
265:WP:GNG
253:cannot
205:WP:GNG
136:Google
94:delete
725:prove
717:claim
705:shown
555:Nsk92
542:Nsk92
424:Nsk92
405:Nsk92
179:JSTOR
140:books
124:Stats
111:views
103:watch
99:links
16:<
941:Keep
930:talk
891:just
887:Keep
875:talk
855:talk
834:talk
818:Keep
809:Keep
800:talk
788:Keep
779:talk
767:Keep
752:talk
733:talk
727:it.
694:talk
666:talk
651:Keep
641:talk
622:talk
608:this
604:this
579:this
575:Keep
557:see
546:talk
526:talk
512:talk
451:talk
433:talk
409:talk
315:talk
297:talk
277:only
236:talk
227:Keep
217:talk
172:FENS
146:news
107:logs
81:talk
77:edit
50:keep
773:. —
721:cat
684:or
209:not
186:TWL
115:– (
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