618:! If the genders had been opposite, I would still nominate this for deletion. Being the spouse of somebody notable (whether husband or wife) does not confer notability, unless the person himself/herself was notable for other rezasons than being a spouse. In the present case, I don't think any evidence of indpendent notability has been provided. --
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I do assume good faith towards this particular nomination, no doubt about it, and I apologize if I implied otherwise--I think our recurrent attitude to spouses of notable figures is the problem--we tend to not look hard enough for their individual accomplishments. It's the general historic social
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Prod was removed without reason. Apparently, the only claim for notability of this person was that she was married to somebody who may have been notable and that she published a collection of poems, most of which are now lost. No sources are provided. Given the apparent lack of notability I propose
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appears to have played a sufficiently important historic role. "She's only the wife of ..." should probably get specified as an inherently sexist inappropriate argument. Spouses can play a central role in things,and she apparently did. It would be better to have a more accessibvle source for that,
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This discussion is starting to degrade. DGG, apologies accepted, I see what you mean. Sergey, I really don't see where in any comment I said anything that could be construed as racism. Please let's stick to the topic, which is the notability of the subect of this article, Pirani Ameena Begum, not
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Recent efforts to improve the article have been helpful. However, the references seem to refer to her as a devoted wife who assisted her more famous relatives in doing their jobs. She does not seem to be regarded as a creative person in her own right. (No published work by her seems to have
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There isn't much, admittedly, but the sentence "Hazrat Inayat Khan often said that without Ameena Begum's loving and precious help he would never have been able to bring the Sufi
Message to the Western world." leads me to think that she was important in spreading
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survived). She was a person who earned respect, and stories about her can be found at various self-published web sites that unfortunately don't count as reliable sources for
Knowledge. Notability is not inherited, or given to you by your spouse or children.
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who was - GC, MBE, British
Special Operations Executive agent in World War II of Indian origin and the first female radio operator to be sent into occupied France to aid the French Résistance, so this remark for my opinion have bitter taste of racism.
222:. I see that you have added some references to the article, but they still don't seem to establish notability of Pirani Ameena Begum, only (perhaps) of her husband and daughter. By the way, this discussion should better be placed at the
160:, a collection of poems written by 'Sharda, Pirani Ameena Begum Ora-Ray Inayat Khan'. "Caravanseari" magazine (Canada) November 1988 pp.. 31-34 I know about other her publications during 1930-1960 but now I don't have precise data.
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you think this person is notable? If you would have any additional references, that would be great, because the article currently only cites references that are only tangently related to the subject. --
655:, who nominate this article for deletion, produce not only sexist arguments, but allow to himself offensive remarks like: "only (perhaps) of her husband and daughter". If this "(perhaps)" relate to
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I decide removing the "dated prod" notice. Reason - this article will be expand and more new materials will be added to it. To be tolerant to other culture only strengthen spirit of
Knowledge
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The creator of this article left a note on my talk page and the article's discussion page, I copy it here (edited for layout) with my response as it pertains to the deletion discussion:
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218:: Dear Sergey, thank you for the dictionary definitions of "notability". Unfortunately, notability has its own, special meaning onWikipedia. I suggest you read the policy article on
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To me that phrase just suggests that she was a loving and supportive wife of a notable person. But that doesn't seem to infer notability by itself.--
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I agree with Sergey that cultural differences are part of the issue. Allow for newby editor to source and write article so subject is more clear.
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395:". It is fairly rare in some Islamic cultures for women to be respected figures (I am not saying I like this, of course).
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About Pirani Amina Begum article deletion: According to a dictionary, "notable" can refer to one of two general concepts:
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That's one of the claims that is given with no source. Someone who has the books might be able to check it out for us.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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I don't know very much about Sufi, but its article is rather long, so it probably has a wide following.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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It is not correct to say that
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Of these two definitions, only the first is in line with
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I think the comment on this being a sexist argument is completely unwarranted, please
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What about the part in which it was stated that she was one of the "first female Sufi
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
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mentions the "worthy of notice" definition in the second sentence.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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page and I will copy your comments and my reply there. --
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I put the AfD template back. It must have been a mixup.
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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ···
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I added references about her personal publications:
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