754:. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold made Doom Maps that were played by a good amount of people, and they planned out the massacre before and to the minute detail (making bombs, acquiring arms, etc). Whereas this dude just killed people, there are nothing currently notable about him, and with the feeding frenzy dying down, there probably won't be any new evidence unearthed for a while (suicide note claimed he just wanted some "lulz". Clearly no serious planning was involved.). Per above, it's essentially copied from the section of the article for the event. Per
148:-- Not a noble way to achieve fame, certainly. But the rationale is twofold: first, he is widely reported by secondary sources. Second, I believe he has the requisite amount of historical importance, and his bio (even if short) is encyclopedic: eg, this appears to be a continuing narrative of modern America, these random massacres of the public by troubled young people. I have to say, however, I'm not too happy about Knowledge's ongoing recentism, but..... you have to follow the policy.
730:. All relevant information is contained within the source article, rendering a separate bio entry unnecessary, and given the circumstances, a little gratuitous. I am of the opinion that it is the event that is noteworthy, not the perpetrator. All personal information should be included under a sub-heading in the main article, and searches for his name redirected to that article. - Nick, 20:04 5 Dec 2007 (I'm in Australia)
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I can appreciate people's feelings that an individual article about the shooter would be an outrage, which is fair enough. Redirect is the obvious choice, and an inevitable one, and I'm not exaggerating about the inevitability. You can prevent an article that would memorialize this killer, but you
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with the inherent problems of simultaneous maintenance of two articles. Keep the content in one place, split it out when it grows, with an adequate summary left in the main article - all future development then takes place on the standalone article with only the occasional need to update the summary.
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section of the shooting article. It gives no additional information about the person at hand, whose only notable action was the aforementioned attack. As both articles are quite short, I say merge unless someone can actually come up with content that would not be appropriate in the shooting article.
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which was then removed, and as mentioned, this person was not notable aside from this unfortunate event. Precedence shows that in the case of otherwise non-notable persons, the individual articles are usually redirected to the main article about the event, and do not warrant an article of their own.
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The
Columbine Massacre is an event that had significant impact on American society, aside from its notability from press coverage (like so many other events). The shooters there have been studied somewhat, and some could argue that they are notable individually because of that. However, just because
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Please, there's really no need for that. Regardless of your opinion of the subject, there's no need to go and make such statements, especially given how recent the event was and the fact that people who knew him would probably take offence to such. Knowledge is a notable website and such comments do
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into shooting article for now. While the event itself is of historical significance, it isn't known at this time whether the shooter will become a notable figure as the
Virginia Tech and Columbine shooters. Their lives have been examined in depth and their names have become historically notable.
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that's where details about him should be placed until such time as either the information about him grows too large for the main article and needs to be split out, or until sources write directly about him rather than about him in relation to this event. As it currently stands the Robert A. Hawkins
947:. Unless there's some claim to notability otherwise, a single incident doesn't generally confer notability on the person involved in it. If we find out more later, then the content can be forked from the main article. --
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can't prevent his name from coming up in other articles in the future. When his name comes up again, a red link turned blue will have to lead to something else besides a
Manitoba legislator or a character on Jerico (see
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mentions Dylan and
Klebold as having their own articles, though I wonder if the information for such an article existed within the first 48 hours after their notoriety was established. This will need to be monitored.
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for all the good reasons above. Deleting the article won't do much: new editors are bound to recreate it once they see it doesn't exist. I also suggest temporarily protecting it, per Daniel above. -
659:. In his own words, "Now I'm famous." And so he is, as a top national news story. If anything, merge the "massacre" story into his bio. Mass killers are almost notorious by definition.
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If the outcome of this debate is anything other than keep or no consensus, I strongly suggest the resulting redirect (and redirects for variants on this name) be fully-protected.
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article contains the same amount of material as the
Westroads Mall shooting article so there is no need for a split. Added to which, having a split at this early stage creates a
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696:. This incident was called breaking news in the UK last night, surely that makes the event and its perpetrator notable, for now, I am sitting on the fence.
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outside the single incident, reliable sources will dry up shortly. Klebold/Harris were an isolated exception which do justify articles. Also concerns re
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This is still a developing story. For now, I would argue that there is not enough information to sustain a single article, but that could change, and
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even change before this debate is closed. On the other hand, there may never be enough significant information to develop an article.
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per above (but technically, just redirect)... he's only notable in the context of the shooting, which already has an article. --
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and other spree killers have their own pages; none has done anything noteworthy other than committing multiple homicides.
917:- historically significant person, "perpetrator" accompanied by "event" articles are common at Knowledge, for example:
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165:- Individual is only notable in the context of the event, for which an article already exists. Previous consensus for
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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He's an otherwise non-notable person who's sole notability is summed up in the article for the shooting spree.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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361:. Sounds like a discussion on a general WP policy for these, regrettably too frequent, events is needed.
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per ArielGold. Merge as needed. Save for 2 sentences, this article is redundant with the shooting article.
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227:. Don't grant this lowlife the notability he could never achieve until he ended his pathetic life.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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he is a non notable person. Any useful info can just move to the article about the event.
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Westroads Mall shooting, per above. This article is an almost verbatim copy of the
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criteria, until and unless there is further examination of his whole life background.--
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based on the fact that other pages on infamous mass murders exist -- for example
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So, by the same logic, a good reason to delete would be that there is
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merged the articles in a similar fashion under the same protocol.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
1113:. Separate article doesn't have to exist, but reference will.
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You're welcome to open discussion on merging that article too.
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The result was Self-evident redirect and merge-as-you-like to
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There is ongoing discussion - this AfD is part of that.
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514:. It should be noted, that Administrator John Reaves
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
826:. As he is being discussed purely in relation to
767:is only notable for being the perpetrator of the
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982:to the shooting article per the reasons above.
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999:for the reasons stated by 122.105.102.221.
857:. No notability outside the shooting. --
564:, per Professor water's comments above.
408:doesn't mean everyone else should too
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242:us no good in instances like this.
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1111:Robert Hawkins (disambiguation)
1030:for all the good reasons above
822:back into the main article per
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
896:For now, this falls under the
190:and redirect to the shooting.
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327:Merge to the shooting article
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406:they have separate articles
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277:. It's unnecessary, really.
265:09:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
251:07:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
237:07:26, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
220:07:24, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
203:07:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
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66:13:24, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
490:per Daniel and others - No
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470:Murder of Meredith Kercher
385:community consensus shifts
171:Murder of Meredith Kercher
1087:individual involved in a
1133:Please do not modify it.
855:Redirect to main article
32:Please do not modify it.
923:Dawson College shooting
828:Westroads Mall shooting
512:Westroads Mall shooting
462:Westroads Mall shooting
301:Westroads Mall shooting
46:Westroads Mall shooting
1047:No reason to delete --
769:Virginia Tech massacre
169:'s involvement in the
941:distributive property
925:amongst many others.
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800:WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS
1106:Merge and redirect
1082:Merge and redirect
1063:no reason to keep?
1028:Merge and redirect
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968:per reasons above
874:per people here.--
872:Merge and redirect
756:WP:NOT#CRYSTALBALL
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806:. Thanks. -
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1085:Non-notable
732:—Preceding
678:Perpetrator
657:Strong keep
582:Raider Duck
167:Amanda Knox
1019:Mtmelendez
945:notability
902:Mike Straw
809:Mtmelendez
566:Kip Kinkel
492:notability
417:Mtmelendez
269:Ah, yeah:
1115:Mandsford
1032:MrMarmite
927:Chessy999
898:WP:N#TEMP
859:GSchjetne
715:• Gene93k
698:Hencetalk
496:recentism
271:"lowlife"
841:SilkTork
824:WP:BIO1E
804:WP:BLP1E
734:unsigned
711:Redirect
640:Redirect
392:SilkTork
381:WP:BIO1E
192:WP:BLP1E
124:View log
50:WP:BLP1E
1093:Ssbohio
1067:Ssbohio
949:Ssbohio
694:Comment
464:. Cite
97:protect
92:history
1049:Apyule
752:Delete
728:Delete
644:Tuxide
602:Daniel
550:Daniel
488:Delete
476:Mattie
430:Delete
333:Chris!
313:crewer
281:Daniel
246:Daniel
225:Delete
208:Delete
198:Daniel
188:Delete
163:Delete
133:Dismas
101:delete
48:, per
1091:. --
1001:Hfodf
997:Merge
980:Merge
966:Merge
893:Merge
877:h i s
820:Merge
787:Speak
686:→Talk
674:Merge
524:Ariel
460:into
458:Merge
299:into
297:Merge
118:views
110:watch
106:links
61:Help!
16:<
1119:talk
1097:talk
1071:talk
1053:talk
1045:Keep
1036:talk
1005:talk
988:talk
984:Brad
953:talk
931:talk
921:and
915:Keep
906:talk
863:talk
802:and
782:Hear
762:Keep
742:talk
719:talk
702:talk
683:♠ SG
665:talk
648:talk
631:talk
586:talk
562:Keep
536:Gold
367:talk
355:Keep
308:brew
303:. --
261:talk
233:talk
229:WWGB
216:talk
179:talk
154:talk
146:Keep
114:logs
88:talk
84:edit
943:of
661:NTK
618:may
510:to
447:man
436:Mr.
212:Czj
122:– (
55:Guy
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Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.