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institution, which was created by an
Australian-born British Major General Robert Cawthome of the Pakistan Army in 1948. This was the parting gift of the British forces to the Pakistanis. He was so favoured by the Pakistani generals that he was subsequently posted as Australian High Commissioner to Pakistan, where he developed unique close relationships with Iskander Mirza and Gen. Ayub, who were responsible for the derailment of democracy in Pakistan from the very beginning of its creation.
541:, blatant hoax – until I looked at the page history, that is. There are two confusions at work here, one between Walter and Robert, and the other between Cawthorn and Cawthorne as Walter's surname and between Cawthorne (...ORNE} and Cawthome (...OME) as Robert's surname. Of the three books cited by
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Generals of
Pakistan and the ISI chiefs, retired and serving, have great admiration for the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). One of them described the ISI as the 'most dreaded organization of South Asia'. For Pakistanis, South Asia means India. This sadism dominates the character of this infamous
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ISI was structured to be operated by officers from the three main military services, and to specialize in the collection, analysis, and assessment of foreign military and non-military intelligence. It was the brainchild of former
British Indian Army Major General, Sir Robert Cawthome, then Deputy
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There is literally NO reference to a Robert
Cawthorne anywhere in the book. You're blatantly ignoring all the evidence right in front of you and cherry-picking random sources to support your weak argument. Tell me, would an Indian author really have more insight into Pakistan's agency than Dr.
242:
originally by Peter Hohnen on Sir Walter Joseph
Cawthorn (1896–1970), published in the Australian Dictionary of Biography, Volume 13, 1993. This further reinforces my argument that Robert "Bill" Cawthome never existed and is actually being confused with Walter Joseph "Bill" Cawthorn.
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correctly identifies
Cawthorn in this role, it incorrectly refers to him as "R. Cawthorne." Additionally, Dr. Hein G. Kiessling, who has extensive connections within Pakistan's political, military, and intelligence circles, authored
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I propose this page for deletion because no
Australian soldier named General Robert "Bill" Cawthome, seconded to Pakistan, ever existed. Several media outlets mistakenly refer to this nonexistent individual as the co-founder of the
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Established in the wake of the Indo-Pakistani War of 1947-48 by
British officer Major General Robert Cawthorne, the then deputy chief of staff in the Pakistan Army.
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Check the publisher's note. Additionally, are you suggesting that we should dismiss all these sources by Indian authors solely because they are Indian?
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I have read the book which is why I'm proposing the page for speedy deletion, page 14 literally says "Major
General Walter Joseph Cawthorne"...
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No that's not what I'm saying, don't speak for me or put words in my mouth. I think you're trolling because there is no way you're reading
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Kiessling, a PhD who literally wrote an entire book on the subject and is renowned for his connections with the
Pakistani military?
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Given this level of confusion, there should be redirects from the other three name variants to the correct one.
549:"Walter Cawthorne" but has no mention of Robert; the other two discuss "Robert Cawthome". There's no doubt that
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clearly confusion over name has led to creation of this duplicative page when we have a page for
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262:: The same source by Hein Kiessling that the nom is ruining with their disruptive editing in
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Chief of Staff of the Pakistan Army, who selected Colonel Shahid Hamid to set up the agency.
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Where does Hein Kiessling ever mention a Robert Cawthorne?
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It's okay to be wrong once in a while, not a big deal.
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Truly a very premature nomination created on a whim.
482:Note: This discussion has been included in the
427:, Cawthorn's successor, literally mentions him
330:Read pages 14–20 of the book by Hein Kiessling.
553:is the person who set up the ISI, even if the
537:. Earlier today I considered deleting this as
279:Additionally, Amit Bagaria states in his book
457:as the head of the agency on 23 August 1950.
209:Faith, Unity, Discipline: The ISI of Pakistan
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67:Help, my article got nominated for deletion!
219:. The Civil and Military Gazette of Lahore
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451:appointed Brigadier Mirza Hamid Hussain
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270:In addition, the book by S. K. Dutta
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555:Australian Dictionary of Biography
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200:Sir Walter Joseph "Bill" Cawthorn
486:lists for the following topics:
417:mentions Walter Joseph Cawthorne
215:Walter as the co-founder of the
52:Introduction to deletion process
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
608:21:23, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
530:04:09, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
508:14:50, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
467:10:08, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
441:15:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
421:similarly mentions Walter here
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390:14:50, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
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308:14:28, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
253:14:10, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
233:13:48, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
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217:Inter-Services Intelligence
198:, instead of Major General
196:Inter-Services Intelligence
42:(AfD)? Read these primers!
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623:AfD debates (Biographical)
557:neglects to mention that (
396:Walter Joseph Cawthorne
445:Deputy Chief of Staff
398:as Robert Cawthorne..
123:edits since nomination
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40:Articles for deletion
563:Taylor & Francis
453:as the successor to
412:Former CIA official
459:WikiEnthusiast1001
433:WikiEnthusiast1001
400:WikiEnthusiast1001
356:WikiEnthusiast1001
318:WikiEnthusiast1001
245:WikiEnthusiast1001
225:WikiEnthusiast1001
221:also supports this
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455:Syed Shahid Hamid
425:Syed Shahid Hamid
57:Guide to deletion
47:How to contribute
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593:: 5 results.
587:: 10 results
575:: 23 results
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414:Bruce Riedel
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628:AfD debates
581:: 5 results
272:states here
260:Speedy Keep
157:free images
617:Categories
213:highlights
204:newint.org
559:Cambridge
547:discusses
522:Mztourist
500:Shellwood
264:this edit
535:Redirect
492:Pakistan
488:Military
266:states:
119:View log
61:glossary
494:, and
240:article
163:WP refs
151:scholar
92:protect
87:history
38:New to
514:Delete
135:Google
96:delete
539:WP:G3
429:HERE.
385:☎ 911
345:☎ 911
303:☎ 911
178:JSTOR
139:books
113:views
105:watch
101:links
16:<
604:talk
526:talk
504:talk
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281:here
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145:news
109:logs
83:talk
79:edit
376:eri
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185:TWL
117:– (
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