445:. Much of the content of the article is material which was rejected or disputed in the Islam in Australia article, and an obvious problem with this article is that there's no clear definition of what 'radical Islam' is, with many of the sources being claims in the tabloid media rather than sober analysis by actual experts on this topic. I just removed several claims which were cited to opinion articles by conservative columnists who are in no ways experts on the topic, as well as some claims about the views of a living person which weren't supported by the citation given: this was a clear violation of the core policy
749:
Muslims. As per fork concerns, if anything, we should move all the tangential bits and pieces in Islam in
Australia "Chronology" section on radical Muslim clerics to this page, replace all those bits and pieces with a single paragraph (titled "concerns over radicalism" or whatever) with a ||main|| redirect to this page. That way we can clean up the main Aussie Islam page from all those side bits.
31:
748:
is this a case of WP:Idontlikeit? All the information is sourced from reliable news sources touching on a topic of concern to the
Australian public. The photo of an Australian committing war raised concerns and awareness of growing radicalism and/or sympathy towards radicalism amongst some Australian
379:
involving Iraqis and an
American: clearly out of scope. The story about 'Australian Muslim groups' starts off by saying that these are the views of "leading members of the Muslim community", and so obviously are not the 'radicals' which this article is supposed to cover. The fact that you raise these
336:
The article provides an important reference-documentation of significant issues for both the
Australian Islamic community and the Australian community generally. The issues raised are obviously contentious, but rather than just a simple deletion, this (new) article can be improved with the addition
673:
NPOV does apply because radical is relative term that isnt clearly defined, the choice of lead which has no relation to the article content is intended to incite a bias and place Islam in a negative light only that is where the NPOV applies. Then use of unbalance(undue) and unrelated events(wynth)
507:
That's a nice red herring. The page does not paint
Islamic culture at all, but cites instances where radicalism appears a trend. I in fact have argued for moving some material from the main page (e.g. statements by radical clerics to help differentiate between the main Islamic community and culture
312:
the material "does fly" on the main page. The issue is only the amount of material on a separate topic (namely, Islamic radicalism, a recent trend) is taking away from the main article on Islam in
Australia (covering 500 years). Editors on that page have noted the material is increasing in size.
265:
The page is might have specific sections requiring additional supplementary information to help balance the article, but in no way is it, as DroverWife alleges, an "unredeemable" mess. And this page will actually help WP editors on Islam in
Australia page to help distinguish between major events
245:
throwing "POV" accusations does not work in this instance to delete an article. Reliable sources were cited and some sections have been worked on by a number of editors to help keep it NPOV. If you point to a particular instance where the article represents "one side" then tag the section.
345:) 05:57, 20 August 2014 (UTC). The presentation of this new Knowledge (XXG) site does require refinement, but the issues covered should not be simply dismissed or just deleted away. For instance the latest-breaking-news, radical-Islam impacts on Australia. Position of the
888:
actual the unreliable source is the first and last one, the second is a case study of a police investigation of one specific terrorist group and not Islam.. the involvement of members of that group was found to be the result of family influences
401:
Don't see why you have to attack a new editor as acting in bad faith. He added plenty of content, not all bad. Instead, as a more experienced editor, it would be in your interest to help him edit in a manner that is more NPOV.
837:
the
Society for Terrorism Research and our publisher Taylor & Francis, our agents, and our licensors make no representations or warranties whatsoever as to the accuracy, completeness, or suitability for any purpose of the
196:
380:
stories as somehow being relevant to the topic of the article raises real questions with me about whether you're editing in good faith here, or are seeking to use
Knowledge (XXG) to push your views.
634:
the lead of the article has no association with the articles context, the sections in the body of the article have no direct association with each other except the implied religious connection.
595:
WP:Fork only applies where the central coverage of a complete topic is being split onto two pages. In this case there is not even a section on radical Islam on the Islam in
Australia page.
236:
190:
149:
727:. This may not be intentional on the part of the original article creator, but it's definitely a collection of news topics without any scholarly research tying them together.
655:
WP:NPOV hardly applies as a reason for deletion in this instance. Plenty of effort was made to keep language neutral, and additional edits further refined the article tone.
467:
266:
concerning Australian Muslim community and minor fringe ones that can be relegated to its own page on fundamentalists. Thir creation of this page benifits everyone overall.
526:
850:
The Society for terrorism research isnt an independent 3rd party, and by its own admission it doesnt make any effort as to the accuracy of that which it publishes.
546:
40:
122:
117:
126:
156:
558:
830:
779:
736:
713:
641:
581:
538:
517:
499:
479:
458:
366:
275:
255:
109:
490:
the article is just a massive POV push by 2 editors, trying to paint Islamic culture as a massive problem. The term "radical" is incredibly subjective.
354:
840:
211:
178:
350:
346:
17:
937:
817:) The Australian govt's response to radical Islam in Australia by overhauling anti-terrorism laws, criticism of govt response. (
113:
172:
896:
871:
857:
797:
758:
681:
664:
604:
411:
389:
322:
300:
91:
674:
means the regardless of the use of a refined tone the article still fails to be presented from a nuetral point of view.
232:
919:
168:
69:
46:
848:
Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.
105:
97:
218:
775:
228:
867:
826:
754:
660:
600:
513:
407:
318:
271:
251:
810:
724:
915:
184:
65:
814:
771:
732:
570:
430:
893:
854:
678:
638:
204:
863:
822:
750:
656:
596:
574:
509:
434:
403:
362:
342:
314:
288:
267:
247:
82:
702:
631:
627:
442:
818:
793:
554:
534:
495:
58:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
914:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
623:
438:
64:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
475:
454:
385:
446:
426:
728:
709:
296:
843:
890:
851:
675:
635:
931:
358:
338:
862:
Sorry, didn't spot the non RS source there. Ignore and use the first and last only.
789:
550:
530:
491:
86:
770:. Valid topic. The article may have some issues, but none of them insurmountable.
143:
701:. Quite a few primary sources used, giving away the fact that this is a work of
578:
471:
450:
381:
705:
292:
811:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/19434472.2012.727096)-similar
809:
scholarly sources on the topic:-study of terrorist network in Sydney (
429:: the article doesn't seek to place the issue in context, and is a
815:
http://www.terrorismanalysts.com/pt/index.php/pot/article/view/364
908:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
375:
Urm, that story about the PM refers to a (disgusting) incident
85:
as to whether this should be covered in its own section there.
25:
819:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10576100590950138
508:
in Australia and radical elements appearing only recently.
139:
135:
131:
203:
287:- If none of the material on this page would fly on
788:being a "valid" topic is not a reason for keeping.
217:
72:). No further edits should be made to this page.
922:). No further edits should be made to this page.
449:, and a blockable offence for whoever added it.
81:. Please start a discussion on the talk page of
468:list of Australia-related deletion discussions
527:list of Politics-related deletion discussions
8:
545:Note: This debate has been included in the
525:Note: This debate has been included in the
466:Note: This debate has been included in the
547:list of Islam-related deletion discussions
544:
524:
465:
313:Hence the need for a seperate article.
45:For an explanation of the process, see
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
24:
41:deletion review on 2014 August 28
835:TandF self disclaimer specifies
29:
47:Knowledge (XXG):Deletion review
723:It seems like a clear case of
1:
897:12:19, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
872:10:29, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
858:03:10, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
831:02:13, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
798:04:05, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
780:20:21, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
759:02:34, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
737:04:16, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
714:10:22, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
682:04:27, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
665:16:50, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
642:10:02, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
605:16:39, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
582:01:23, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
559:17:10, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
539:17:10, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
518:02:25, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
500:12:43, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
480:12:17, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
459:11:59, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
412:16:24, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
390:12:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
367:10:03, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
351:Australian Justice Minister
337:of a wider set of inputs.
323:02:20, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
301:10:31, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
276:05:31, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
256:02:29, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
237:04:27, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
92:06:13, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
954:
106:Radical Islam in Australia
98:Radical Islam in Australia
347:Australian Prime Minister
938:Pages at deletion review
911:Please do not modify it.
355:Australian Muslim Groups
61:Please do not modify it.
437:article which violates
291:it shouldn't fly here.
227:Unredeemable POV mess.
622:this article violates
813:study of same group
349:. Position of the
575:Islam in Australia
435:Islam in Australia
289:Islam in Australia
83:Islam in Australia
77:The result was
561:
541:
482:
263:Keep & refine
229:The Drover's Wife
53:
52:
39:was subject to a
945:
913:
353:. Position of
222:
221:
207:
159:
147:
129:
89:
63:
33:
32:
26:
953:
952:
948:
947:
946:
944:
943:
942:
928:
927:
926:
920:deletion review
909:
772:CesareAngelotti
334:Keep and refine
164:
155:
120:
104:
101:
87:
70:deletion review
59:
37:This discussion
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
951:
949:
941:
940:
930:
929:
925:
924:
905:
904:
903:
902:
901:
900:
899:
879:
878:
877:
876:
875:
874:
803:
802:
801:
800:
783:
782:
764:
763:
762:
761:
740:
739:
717:
716:
691:
690:
689:
688:
687:
686:
685:
684:
668:
667:
645:
644:
612:
611:
610:
609:
608:
607:
585:
584:
563:
562:
542:
521:
520:
502:
484:
483:
462:
461:
419:
418:
417:
416:
415:
414:
393:
392:
370:
369:
330:
329:
328:
327:
326:
325:
304:
303:
279:
278:
259:
258:
225:
224:
161:
100:
95:
75:
74:
54:
51:
50:
44:
34:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
950:
939:
936:
935:
933:
923:
921:
917:
912:
906:
898:
895:
892:
887:
886:
885:
884:
883:
882:
881:
880:
873:
869:
865:
864:I.am.a.qwerty
861:
860:
859:
856:
853:
849:
845:
841:
839:
834:
833:
832:
828:
824:
823:I.am.a.qwerty
820:
816:
812:
808:
805:
804:
799:
795:
791:
787:
786:
785:
784:
781:
777:
773:
769:
766:
765:
760:
756:
752:
751:I.am.a.qwerty
747:
744:
743:
742:
741:
738:
734:
730:
726:
722:
719:
718:
715:
711:
707:
704:
700:
696:
695:Strong Delete
693:
692:
683:
680:
677:
672:
671:
670:
669:
666:
662:
658:
657:I.am.a.qwerty
654:
651:
650:
649:
648:
647:
646:
643:
640:
637:
633:
629:
625:
621:
617:
614:
613:
606:
602:
598:
597:I.am.a.qwerty
594:
591:
590:
589:
588:
587:
586:
583:
580:
576:
572:
568:
565:
564:
560:
556:
552:
548:
543:
540:
536:
532:
528:
523:
522:
519:
515:
511:
510:I.am.a.qwerty
506:
503:
501:
497:
493:
489:
488:strong delete
486:
485:
481:
477:
473:
469:
464:
463:
460:
456:
452:
448:
444:
440:
436:
432:
428:
424:
421:
420:
413:
409:
405:
404:I.am.a.qwerty
400:
397:
396:
395:
394:
391:
387:
383:
378:
374:
373:
372:
371:
368:
364:
360:
356:
352:
348:
344:
340:
335:
332:
331:
324:
320:
316:
315:I.am.a.qwerty
311:
308:
307:
306:
305:
302:
298:
294:
290:
286:
283:
282:
281:
280:
277:
273:
269:
268:I.am.a.qwerty
264:
261:
260:
257:
253:
249:
248:I.am.a.qwerty
244:
241:
240:
239:
238:
234:
230:
220:
216:
213:
210:
206:
202:
198:
195:
192:
189:
186:
183:
180:
177:
174:
170:
167:
166:Find sources:
162:
158:
154:
151:
145:
141:
137:
133:
128:
124:
119:
115:
111:
107:
103:
102:
99:
96:
94:
93:
90:
84:
80:
73:
71:
67:
62:
56:
55:
48:
42:
38:
35:
28:
27:
19:
910:
907:
847:
836:
806:
767:
745:
725:WP:SYNTHESIS
720:
698:
694:
652:
619:
615:
592:
566:
504:
487:
422:
398:
376:
333:
309:
284:
262:
242:
226:
214:
208:
200:
193:
187:
181:
175:
165:
152:
78:
76:
60:
57:
36:
630:its also a
191:free images
729:MezzoMezzo
571:WP:POVFORK
431:WP:POVFORK
916:talk page
846:requires
842:where as
551:• Gene93k
531:• Gene93k
433:from the
66:talk page
932:Category
918:or in a
703:WP:SYNTH
653:Response
632:WP:SYNTH
628:WP:UNDUE
593:Response
505:Response
443:WP:UNDUE
359:Sam56mas
339:Sam56mas
310:Response
243:Response
150:View log
88:Philg88
68:or in a
838:Content
807:Comment
790:LibStar
746:Comment
624:WP:NPOV
492:LibStar
439:WP:NPOV
399:Comment
377:in Iraq
285:Comment
197:WP refs
185:scholar
123:protect
118:history
721:Delete
616:Delete
567:Delete
472:Nick-D
451:Nick-D
447:WP:BLP
427:WP:TNT
423:Delete
382:Nick-D
169:Google
127:delete
79:delete
894:garra
855:garra
844:WP:RS
706:AlanS
679:garra
639:garra
573:from
569:as a
293:AlanS
212:JSTOR
173:books
157:Stats
144:views
136:watch
132:links
16:<
891:Gnan
868:talk
852:Gnan
827:talk
794:talk
776:talk
768:Keep
755:talk
733:talk
710:talk
699:Salt
697:and
676:Gnan
661:talk
636:Gnan
626:and
620:Salt
618:and
601:talk
555:talk
535:talk
514:talk
496:talk
476:talk
455:talk
441:and
425:per
408:talk
386:talk
363:talk
357:..
343:talk
319:talk
297:talk
272:talk
252:talk
233:talk
205:FENS
179:news
140:logs
114:talk
110:edit
577:.--
219:TWL
148:– (
934::
870:)
829:)
821:)
796:)
778:)
757:)
735:)
712:)
663:)
603:)
579:TM
557:)
549:.
537:)
529:.
516:)
498:)
478:)
470:.
457:)
410:)
388:)
365:)
321:)
299:)
274:)
254:)
235:)
199:)
142:|
138:|
134:|
130:|
125:|
121:|
116:|
112:|
43:.
866:(
825:(
792:(
774:(
753:(
731:(
708:(
659:(
599:(
553:(
533:(
512:(
494:(
474:(
453:(
406:(
384:(
361:(
341:(
317:(
295:(
270:(
250:(
231:(
223:)
215:·
209:·
201:·
194:·
188:·
182:·
176:·
171:(
163:(
160:)
153:·
146:)
108:(
49:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.