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offering detail on a website's achievements, impact or historical significance, which can be significantly more up-to-date than most reference sources since we can incorporate new developments and facts as they are made known. See current events for examples". The
Railpage Australia article describes the nature, appearance, and services the website offers. It goes further to detail some of the site's achievements (which can be added to by the looks here), it looks at the site's impact on the Railfan community, and touches on its historical significance (which can also be added to looking at the talk page). This article clearly is in the spirit of Notability(Web). It has been shown that the site is of significance due to its historical significance of internet in Australia. It has also been proven to be used as sources for major news outlets as well as government and a variety of print and radio media. Contributors also remember a number of print articles (which are unfortunately no longer available online) where the site itself was the subject. So, we see that content from the site is being used in reliable, well-known third-party publications - which makes it fit Criteria 3 of Notability.
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manner, offering detail on a website's achievements, impact or historical significance", which this article clearly does. If there are ciation problems, these are soemthing that need to be edited to fix (citations provided), not have the article deleted. In future, please refrain from trying to suggest NPOV violation when YOU don't like the site in question. Your campaign of vandalism of the article does little to improve your character. Your suggestions on the James Morgan section were irrelevant and poorly considered - and despite two administrators and countless others telling you so, you continued to persist with this petty smear campaign. I suggest that it may be time for you to take a step back from the article, for it is you that refuses to come to consensus, and you who is intent on defacing the article.
1082:- the site is one of the world's biggest rail enthusiast websites and the biggest in Australia, I should think; it has been up and running a long time as well. I did a Factiva search and it came up with only a couple of useful links, but RP has been involved in the production of a national rail map, etc; it hosts and helps run the websites of a number of notable rail heritage groups. It's even being quoted on rail incidents - an article in the West Australian newspaper about a prang between two railcars in
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Newsrail. Furthermore, they serve as a portal and hosting service for a significant number of volunteer and tourist operations including a number that are supported by
Federal Government. The site is also referenced a number of times for tourist information on various state government tourism websites. Also, a number of wikipedia articles take data from railpage, as well as link to it. Are these third-party sources?
925:. With a website the size of this one, it is very difficult to find "third party" sources that are not directly involved (as I am). It appears that the push for deletion is coming from a (?)small group of former or disaffected members. The simple truth is that Railpage is the first stop for almost everyone seeking information about Australian railways, and this is reason enough for keeping the entry live.
773:. Incidentally, I find it odd that the article has a Deletion notice that invites editors to improve the article (clearly with the intention of avoiding deletion) whilst the article is locked and not able to be improved. The article is not well done and not well referenced, but there seems to be an impetus now to improve it, yet it has been proposed for deletion without the opportunity to improve it.
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451:(and not mentioned in passing) of multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself.". A quote in an article, etc that mentions Railpage in a single sentence or paragraph does not constitute being the subject of that article, and hence you can't use these mentions (or quotes) to demonstrate notability. Therefore
594:. I recall the site being discussed and reviewed a couple of times on ABC radio, however their transcripts don't stay online long enough for me to link it. Now bear in mind also that the site represents specific interest, and thus is reviewed and profiled often in Railway magaziners (print form, not online).
1086:'s depot quoted Railpage as a reliable source! The original versions of the page were quite bad and needed sourcing, but when I asked the contributors they did so and would probably be happy to source the page again if needed. The incident in question with the Railpage moderator was mentioned on Rove Live.
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I'll again use the comparision, if an leading individual of a company that featured an article here on
Knowledge (XXG) was accused or convicted of a crime associated with his role at the company, the company of course would not condone the crime, but mention of that accused actions (even if found not
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Knowledge (XXG) is not the place to advertise, and this article doesn't read like an advertisement. Notability(Web) says: "Internet guides. Knowledge (XXG) articles should not exist only to describe the nature, appearance or services a website offers, but should describe the site in an encyclopedic
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Railpage was also noted in the
Fairfax (Print) Press with several quotes from it's administrator in an article about Railfandom. Among it was: "Morgan is one of the administrators of Railpage.com.au, Australia's biggest online rail community that dates back to the dawn of the internet in 1992." ...
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of the site is being used as the subject of these works, such as the
Australian Bureau of Statistics one (used as a secondary source), and the many newspaper articles it has been referenced in (the content, not the fact that the site exists). It has been considered notable by WIPO in an arbitration
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Bear in mind we're talking GUIDELINES for notability. But still, look at the opening lines of
Notability(Web) "Internet guides. Knowledge (XXG) articles should not exist only to describe the nature, appearance or services a website offers, but should describe the site in an encyclopedic manner,
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for lack of multiple reliable substantial third-party coverage. Currently protected apparently due to editwarring about whether a reference to a site administrator having allegedly commited a crime should be included. That text (see history) contains a reference to a newspaper story about that
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I Disagree. The site has been quoted in a number of major metropolitan newspapers (check the talk page for references), and has been frequented by high-profile politicians, as well as a number of journalists. It is quoted and referenced in a number of print magazines and video media such as
1111:. The article needs to move from a focus about the equipment to being about the "society", its history and relevance to the community; e.g. list its activities like previous meets. Also, from what I read on the aus.rail newsgroup, it seems like there have been server issues, so if
1311:. As was mentioned above, multiple independent sources have been cited on the talk page. This includes at least two Australian government department (Geoscience Australia and the Australian Bureau of Statistics) using Railpage as a secondary source (not just mere links).
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Even if some people find mentioning his name objectional, It is my opinion that there should be some mention of this "small" "social controversy". Knowledge (XXG) has allowed mention the mention of "controversies" elsewhere - see Post-match "handbag incident".
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Would you mind restricting your discussion to the article and not to me? As for blatant mis-statements, I'd consider your accusation of me have a "fondness for contributing things that are patently false" is one such statement, and constitutes vilification.
643:"There are many more than a few. With up to 20 new members a day, Railpage has 10,000 registered users and boasts more than 500,000 posted articles." among other mentions. It was considered first on the list of notable Rail websites in Australia.
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Do you really think that you can make such a blatant mis-statement and get away with it? To be "quoted" or "mentioned" in a seniors site or a site of railway links does not constitute notability: note the criteria for notability - "being the
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guilty) if it was recorded in the mainstream printed media and the boards subsequent refusal to sack or reprimand the individual or publicly distance itself would surely rate a mention within that wikipedia article on that company.
1353:. As was mentioned above, multiple independent sources (at least two major daily newspapers) have been cited on the talk page. Part of the problem is some of the early newspaper reviews of the site content are not available online.
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It has been quoted many times in major daily newspapers (see one example on the talk page) but not every
Australian newspaper puts every article online. Google News Archive is not the be all and end all of the world's news.
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I presume that his actions were explained to the court, and I further presume that you are claiming that his actions were never properly explained on, say, Railpage. But you've never properly explained why they should
737:(and not mentioned in passing) of multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself.". Please point to non-trivial, reliable published sources in which Railpage is the
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I would allow these as sources to support the claims being made. What sources are otherwise going to exist? I did check the
Wayback machine, it didn't help but that absence of support did not mean it did not
1226:(and I say this as a enthuiast in PT) as nominator in the original AfD, I withdrawn the first one it as it did seem borderline notable after a quick research in google. But since then, it seems to fail the
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of an article, and not simply mentioned in a single line or paragraph. Your fondness for contributing things that are patently false is well-known, please refrain from this passion of yours in this case.
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678:(and not mentioned in passing) of multiple, non-trivial, reliable published works, whose sources are independent of the subject itself. If the website does satisfy this criteria, please let me know.
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approved as a school resource (this is not just a link and every site approved by EdNA as a school resource has to be evaluated). The
Australian Bureau of Statistics has used it as a secondary source
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The incident was newsworthy being printed in an article in the Herald Sun. His actions were never properly explained, and there were calls for him to be removed at the time.
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Correction, I think one arbitrator disagreed with the subject, the other approached it from a neutral point of view and locked discussion with the subject material in place.
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787:. The Railpage mafia are really grasping at straws. The "published works" they keep bringing up are trivial and irrelevant. It is an insiginficant site run by children.
1364:. Appears to meet notability and I would have thought major daily newspapers were reliable sources. Better to replace AfD with a cleanup tag and review in one month.
1376:, perhaps borderline, but definitely notable due to its sheer longevity and depth of information. Probably a case of erring on the side of caution here.
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I did propose
Arbitration, however others have proposed for reasons already indicated (uncited material, etc) that the article is a candiate for deletion.
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323:. I would support keeping if we had independent sources indicating notability. At the moment it doesn't and Google News Archive has nothing on them.
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I fear there will never be any consensus to any proposed changes even if there is only just a passing mention in the article of the "incident".
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That's one problem. There's been no evidence tendered here to show that his alleged crime had anything to do with his role with Railpage.
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1212:. Multiple independent sources (two major daily newspapers and two government departments) have been cited on the talk page.
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1329:. I disagree vehemently that this is not a notable subject, but it simply cannot be reliably sourced per guidelines.
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Note: At this point I have semiprotected this AfD due to the influx of unhelpful comments by new and anonymous users.
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
269:- only links are to the site itself; no evidence of coverage in third-party sources to establish notability per
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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one must ensure it doesn't become a vanity page for the forum. However there seems no valid reason to delete.
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New or anonymous users who wish to contribute evidence to this discussion, please feel free to comment on the
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Its history as an early Australian website makes it notable, and the reliable sources that have beeb provide
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test, and there are some events (eg the server issues) that doesnt really need mentioning unless if can be
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Yet, you've not provided anything to disprove the above qualifications that previous people have provided.
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1131:, Here are some early posts that mention railpage on groups aus.rail, rec.railroad and fj.rec.rail.
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count, and more are being brought to this Afd. For example, the abc article is talking about the
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I agree with a previous comment on grounds of the website being discussed not being notable (see
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to the website as a source for train-related information. However, we are not a web directory.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Particularly not when the anti- editors have not being willing to discuss the contents.
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Being quoted is not sufficient. Please remember the criteria for notability: "being the
1416:. It shouldnt be used as a source but that's different to having an article *about* it
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lots of claims to notability, but so far despite much asking and claims of proof, no
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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has been the subject of multiple and non-trivial published work" (my emphasis).
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can be found, or it can be phrased carefully, I think it is worth mentioning.
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in 1994 (four years before Google started) would not be anywhere online.
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person's arrest; however the website is only mentioned in passing there.
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Note that the criteria for notability lies along the lines of being the
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shows 895 Australian government web pages linking to Railpage. It is an
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859:. I fear there will never be any consensus to any proposed changes.
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http://www.arts.nsw.gov.au/Links/Links/mseums%20and%20galleries.htm
723:. The site is sufficiently notable, as has been explained above.
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on grounds of the website being discussed not being notable (see
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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96:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
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before Google. The early newspaper reviews of the web site
432:. Also, check out groups - it's mentioned heaps of times.
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I agree. It is a non-notable vanity page. Get rid of it.
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among Knowledge (XXG) contributors. Knowledge (XXG) has
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Thankyou for your even-handed and unbiased suggestion.
974:...a crime associated with his role at the company...
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http://www.abc.net.au/goldfields/stories/s952896.htm
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Was previously nominated for deletion in May 2006 (
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
809:comment was added at 12:38 27 February 2007 (UTC).
700:comment was added at 08:41 27 February 2007 (UTC).
418:http://www.aboutseniors.com.au/HobbiesOutdoor.html
426:http://www.abc.net.au/sydney/stories/s1553161.htm
1452:). No further edits should be made to this page.
550:the website, as far as I can tell. They merely
1065:The influx came from the aus.rail newsgroup.
116:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
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982:His actions were never properly explained...
831:http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Notability
667:http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Notability
496:http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Notability
90:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
1145:RailPage Australia #5 - Western Australia
1108:, which is hosted online by Railpage at
305:: This debate has been included in the
110:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
1003:Ths site is <obscenity redacted: -->
847:It's a partisan advertising commentary
546:None of the above sources are coverage
512:that this is this anon's second vote.
1400:- long standing, notable website. --
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
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390:). The nomination was withdrawn. --
307:list of Australia-related deletions
1161:. Not of themselves good sources.
805:outside this topic. The preceding
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1430:. 4 citations on Google Scholar.
1071:Railpage Knowledge (XXG) article
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1198:backing up any of the claims.
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1445:Please do not modify it.
1151:Introduction to RailPage
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1106:St Kilda Tramway Museum
339:. Railpage was started
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1210:Comment - disagree
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1010:
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815:
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611:
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530:Per above IP
529:
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40:
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33:
27:
26:
19:
1444:
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1397:
1386:
1373:
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1334:
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1274:
1260:
1223:
1209:
1191:
1170:
1158:
1128:
1101:
1097:
1079:
1062:
1048:
1047:
1007:— Preceding
1000:
963:
960:
957:
949:
945:
939:
934:
933:
922:
921:
826:
791:59.106.21.65
784:
770:
738:
734:
720:
675:
662:
639:
586:
582:
559:
551:
547:
543:
527:
509:
491:
477:72.55.140.16
452:
448:
403:
383:
361:72.55.140.16
353:72.55.140.16
344:
340:
336:
320:
302:
284:
277:
266:
250:
184:
171:
159:
150:sockpuppetry
143:
132:; suspected
127:
113:
101:
97:
91:
83:
77:
45:
43:
31:
28:
1434:Thin Arthur
1224:Weak Delete
1192:Weak Delete
1039:) has made
927:Latrodectus
801:) has made
692:) has made
627:) has made
466:This search
371:) has made
267:Weak Delete
1084:TransPerth
490:Disagree (
412:See also:
84:discussion
1378:Lankiveil
1299:Roisterer
1052:Sandstein
857:WP:VERIFY
564:Sandstein
341:six years
258:Sandstein
187:talk page
140:canvassed
134:canvassed
93:consensus
1418:DanielT5
1250:contribs
1232:verified
1200:Nuttah68
1174:exist.--
1171:Comment:
1037:contribs
1021:contribs
1009:unsigned
807:unsigned
799:contribs
698:unsigned
690:contribs
640:Comment:
625:contribs
598:unsigned
544:Comment:
384:Comment:
369:contribs
245:View log
172:username
166:{{subst:
160:username
154:{{subst:
144:username
138:{{subst:
128:username
122:{{subst:
1428:Comment
1390:Rebecca
1236:sourced
1159:Comment
1129:Comment
1063:Comment
1001:Delete.
935:Delete.
891:!!!!!!
889:WP:NPOV
853:WP:CITE
827:Delete.
771:Comment
739:subject
735:subject
676:subject
587:content
449:subject
349:The Age
345:content
337:Comment
218:protect
213:history
136:users:
1323:Delete
1295:Delete
1283:WP:WEB
1279:WP:ATT
1088:JROBBO
965:Tezza1
893:Tezza1
855:&
849:WP:NOT
785:Delete
663:Delete
556:WP:WEB
492:delete
453:delete
392:Canley
321:Delete
313:Canley
271:WP:WEB
253:WP:WEB
251:Fails
222:delete
1387:Keep.
1335:SM247
1327:WP:RS
1240:Arnzy
590:case
583:Keep:
548:about
532:DXRAW
239:views
231:watch
227:links
114:Note:
52:garra
16:<
1414:WP:N
1410:Keep
1402:Chuq
1398:Keep
1374:Keep
1325:per
1275:Keep
1244:talk
1234:and
1098:Keep
1080:Keep
1069:and
1033:talk
1017:talk
923:Keep
795:talk
721:Keep
686:talk
621:talk
606:talk
592:here
552:link
528:Keep
510:note
404:Keep
365:talk
303:Note
235:logs
209:talk
205:edit
49:Gnan
46:Keep
987:be.
955:.
311:--
309:.
285:ton
278:Wal
243:– (
168:csp
164:or
156:csm
124:spa
98:not
1252:)
1238:--
1102:do
1035:•
1027:—
1023:)
1019:•
1004:!
833:)
797:•
789:—
688:•
680:—
623:•
615:—
608:)
498:).
428:,
424:,
420:,
416:,
367:•
359:—
273:.
237:|
233:|
229:|
225:|
220:|
216:|
211:|
207:|
174:}}
162:}}
152::
146:}}
130:}}
120::
1383:.
1247:•
1242:(
1031:(
1015:(
793:(
684:(
669:)
619:(
612:.
604:(
363:(
247:)
241:)
203:(
176:.
170:|
158:|
142:|
126:|
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