Knowledge (XXG)

:Articles for deletion/Rasa shastra - Knowledge (XXG)

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211:: There's no doubt that the article is in a much more encyclopedic state now than it was a week ago, and thanks are due to the editors who have worked on it. One new source, the "Scientific basis for Ayurvedic therapies" seems a good find. Unfortunately I can't see the previews via my local Google books, so I'm in no position to judge whether that source is sufficient to build an entire article upon, or whether the information would be best as part of a larger article. I leave that decision to the good sense of my fellow editors. -- 193:. There is sufficient sourced material to make an article on "Criticism of Rasa shastra", but none for anything more. I have done a Google search in an attempt to find reliable sources, but not one site would appear to meet our standards for reliable sourcing, particularly the high standards required for those making medical claims. 586:(and given the nature of the subject we probably ought to tread lightly before even making that claim) it seems to be a notable part of that practice. With subjects like this, the issue is not whether they are scientifically verifiable, but whether they veriviably exist. I'm convinced it does. - 418:
Whereas my belief is that MEDRS applies to an article containing phrases such as "a sacred residue that may be used as a medicine", "generate therapeutic properties", "has a soothing effect on the body, prevents disease and old age", and so on. In addition I don't believe that hedging such claims
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Indeed. Those claims were rightly edited out as unsourced, POV-pushing, and promotional. On the other hand, I've expanded the article with information I was able to find without a great deal of effort, describing its methods of preparation of the substances and its historical relationship with
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immediately after the line "Minerals, including sulfur, arsenic, lead, copper sulfate and gold are also consumed as prescribed". That doesn't sound especially healthy to me, either, but it's important to know in the context of ayurvedic treatments - especially if someone is about to begin one
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There have been many news reports about the problem of mercury-containing ayurvedic remedies, and I have no doubt scientific papers exist as well. This article is appalling, but the topic is notable, if only for being one of the most dangerous practices in more-or-less mainstream alternative
579: 390: 346: 466:. Utterly irresponsible, as well as violating basic standards regarding medical claims etc. It is entirely possible that we need an article on 'traditional medical folklore in India', but this isn't the way to cover the topic. 703:- why does anybody think this improves an article? "The way of the crucible" = SPS from lulu.com once more. It's taken less than a day for the stub (which was worth keeping) to transform into a problem article again. -- 154: 681:: Rasa Shshtra also called Rasa Vidhya is an ancient science, a branch of auyrveda, which deals with compositions of mercury. The article should tagged for improvement. I have added some citation. 582:. When the methods used are set forth in a matter of fact way, I don't think anybody's going to actually mistake this for anything that relates to Western medicine. Even if you consider this a 750:, which also deals with the branch of alchemy practised in India. The two articles may be redundant, though I don't see much duplication in actual content in the current versions. - 487:. I don't think it's our place to judge the "irresponsibility" of the claims of this practice; only whether it exists and is notable enough to support a stand alone article. - 115: 282:
Mercury is also said to give a firm physique, a stable mind, and to be the best destroyer of disease. Furthermore, It is considered holy because it is the semen of Lord Shiva.
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appears to have some editorial oversight, but someone with a better understanding of these ought to check it out. The claims made on treatments etc ought to be subject to
312: 284:" Please, nuke this from orbit before some moron decides to cure their head cold with a mercury god-sperm cocktail and their next-of-kin blames Knowledge (XXG) for it. 330: 148: 321: 823:, but I'd say protect to prevent fringe stuff from being readded. The study of this has separate departments at prestigious universities such as the 356:, and as such not only a valid but a needed article subject. POV problems were best dealt with as they have been - by stubbing the article. - 609: 775: 438:. When the methods and materials are described as a matter of fact, it becomes increasingly obvious that this subject is not one to which 657: 695:
And this is another good reason why this subject is unsuitable for Knowledge (XXG). It's a magnet for junk from unreliable sources like
342:. This would appear to be an article about a highly notable branch of traditional medical folklore or religious belief. I am finding 17: 88: 83: 92: 528:. I'm not convinced that rasa shastra or the reasoning behind it could ever be verifiable. It's also already mentioned on 169: 75: 189:. In fact, it has remained unsourced for three years, apart from a well-sourced criticism section, so does not even meet 136: 807: 235: 910: 36: 280:. It's been stubified but the previous version was extremely irresponsible, including such unsourced goofiness as " 419:
with weasel words such as 'traditionally' or 'allegedly' exempts the article from MEDRS-compliance either. YMMV. --
830:) and is for what it's worth governed by the Ministry of Health, just like standard allopathic medical education. 620: 343: 909:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
779: 130: 849: 538: 231: 516: 471: 634:. The subject is notable and referenced. However it requires some copy-editing for style and neutrality. 126: 895: 878: 855: 815: 783: 758: 730: 712: 690: 668: 647: 625: 594: 578:. I've expanded the article with a brief synopsis of information gleaned from the preview pages in the 566: 542: 520: 495: 475: 450: 428: 413: 381: 364: 303: 264: 239: 220: 202: 57: 614: 604: 401:
really applies to this subject, either, and might be considered an example of Western or scientistic
377: 260: 53: 230:- Put this thing out of its misery before some poor fool reads it and doses himself with mercury. -- 176: 891: 831: 162: 583: 843: 686: 534: 839: 439: 398: 186: 512: 467: 277: 79: 29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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on this. "Rasa shastra" generally seems to be the name for the native Indian tradition of
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Your 'substantial' source is self-published by Lulu.com, thus not a source we should use.
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medicine. However, since few non-fringe editors exist in the Ayurveda topic, I'd suggest
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The CRC chapter , among others, is convincing as a RS. The queestion of a merge with
842:, but the topic itself is "a historical tradition" and ought to be treated as such. — 728: 682: 645: 349: 71: 63: 109: 795: 751: 661: 587: 559: 488: 443: 406: 357: 704: 555: 420: 212: 194: 394: 48:. Discussion of a possible merge can and should continue on the talk page. 869: 864: 790: 770: 747: 718: 635: 529: 397:
has an entire chapter on the subject. I'd add that I don't believe that
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This article makes scientific and medical claims, so should satisfy
696: 886:- now appears to be balanced and well sourced following re-write. 903:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
554:. Again, the question of whether its methods are rational, or 867:
needs to be discussed on the talk p. of one of the articles.
700: 511:- but delete the nonsense about actual health claims. -- 105: 101: 97: 161: 794:
I do not see sources that make it notable on its own.
389:. Did not notice the publisher. On the other hand 175: 717:That's an argument for protection, not deletion. 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 913:). No further edits should be made to this page. 836:The Journal of Ayurveda and Integrative Medicine 834:article seems to be usable as a reference -- 313:list of Medicine-related deletion discussions 8: 331:list of Science-related deletion discussions 329:Note: This debate has been included in the 320:Note: This debate has been included in the 311:Note: This debate has been included in the 533:without knowing what they're getting into. 328: 322:list of India-related deletion discussions 319: 310: 18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion 7: 756:killing the human spirit since 2003! 746:. I've just discovered the article 666:killing the human spirit since 2003! 656:This article has been nominated for 592:killing the human spirit since 2003! 564:killing the human spirit since 2003! 493:killing the human spirit since 2003! 448:killing the human spirit since 2003! 411:killing the human spirit since 2003! 362:killing the human spirit since 2003! 24: 697:http://www.neterapublishing.com/ 1: 896:12:03, 6 September 2011 (UTC) 879:03:49, 3 September 2011 (UTC) 856:06:53, 1 September 2011 (UTC) 567:21:17, 2 September 2011 (UTC) 496:21:17, 2 September 2011 (UTC) 221:16:33, 5 September 2011 (UTC) 58:18:31, 6 September 2011 (UTC) 209:Reflections by the nominator 816:13:44, 31 August 2011 (UTC) 784:23:59, 30 August 2011 (UTC) 759:14:48, 30 August 2011 (UTC) 731:17:26, 30 August 2011 (UTC) 713:09:00, 30 August 2011 (UTC) 701:http://www.shrifreedom.org/ 691:04:18, 30 August 2011 (UTC) 669:04:14, 30 August 2011 (UTC) 648:21:18, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 626:21:11, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 595:19:29, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 543:17:18, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 521:17:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 476:15:40, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 451:19:48, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 429:18:06, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 414:17:31, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 382:16:17, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 365:15:30, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 304:15:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 265:14:29, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 240:14:08, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 203:13:48, 29 August 2011 (UTC) 930: 278:Mercury_(element)#Medicine 558:, is beyond the scope. - 906:Please do not modify it. 825:Banaras Hindu University 32:Please do not modify it. 232:Steven J. Anderson 44:The result was 671: 601:Kill it with fire 334: 325: 316: 921: 908: 852: 846: 800: 727: 723: 652: 644: 640: 623: 617: 612: 607: 603:per LuckyLouie. 301: 298: 295: 292: 180: 179: 165: 113: 95: 34: 929: 928: 924: 923: 922: 920: 919: 918: 917: 911:deletion review 904: 850: 844: 796: 752:Smerdis of Tlön 725: 719: 662:Smerdis of Tlön 642: 636: 621: 615: 610: 605: 588:Smerdis of Tlön 560:Smerdis of Tlön 556:mad as a hatter 489:Smerdis of Tlön 444:Smerdis of Tlön 407:Smerdis of Tlön 358:Smerdis of Tlön 299: 296: 293: 290: 122: 86: 70: 67: 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 927: 925: 916: 915: 899: 898: 881: 858: 818: 786: 776:86.182.190.156 761: 740: 739: 738: 737: 736: 735: 734: 733: 673: 672: 650: 598: 597: 584:fringe subject 572: 571: 570: 569: 546: 545: 523: 501: 500: 499: 498: 479: 478: 461: 460: 459: 458: 457: 456: 455: 454: 453: 336: 335: 326: 317: 307: 306: 286:Andrew Lenahan 267: 242: 224: 223: 183: 182: 119: 66: 61: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 926: 914: 912: 907: 901: 900: 897: 893: 889: 885: 882: 880: 876: 872: 871: 866: 862: 859: 857: 854: 853: 847: 841: 837: 833: 829: 826: 822: 819: 817: 813: 809: 805: 801: 799: 793: 792: 787: 785: 781: 777: 773: 772: 765: 762: 760: 757: 753: 749: 745: 742: 741: 732: 729: 724: 722: 716: 715: 714: 710: 706: 702: 698: 694: 693: 692: 688: 684: 680: 677: 676: 675: 674: 670: 667: 663: 659: 655: 651: 649: 646: 641: 639: 633: 630: 629: 628: 627: 624: 618: 613: 608: 602: 596: 593: 589: 585: 581: 577: 574: 573: 568: 565: 561: 557: 553: 550: 549: 548: 547: 544: 540: 536: 535:Several Times 531: 527: 524: 522: 518: 514: 510: 506: 505:keep the stub 503: 502: 497: 494: 490: 486: 483: 482: 481: 480: 477: 473: 469: 465: 462: 452: 449: 445: 441: 437: 432: 431: 430: 426: 422: 417: 416: 415: 412: 408: 404: 400: 396: 392: 388: 385: 384: 383: 379: 375: 371: 368: 367: 366: 363: 359: 355: 351: 348: 345: 341: 338: 337: 332: 327: 323: 318: 314: 309: 308: 305: 302: 287: 283: 279: 275: 271: 268: 266: 262: 258: 254: 250: 246: 243: 241: 237: 233: 229: 226: 225: 222: 218: 214: 210: 207: 206: 205: 204: 200: 196: 192: 188: 178: 174: 171: 168: 164: 160: 156: 153: 150: 147: 144: 141: 138: 135: 132: 128: 125: 124:Find sources: 120: 117: 111: 107: 103: 99: 94: 90: 85: 81: 77: 73: 69: 68: 65: 62: 60: 59: 55: 51: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 905: 902: 883: 868: 860: 848: 820: 797: 788: 768: 763: 743: 720: 678: 653: 637: 631: 600: 599: 575: 551: 525: 513:Rocksanddirt 508: 504: 484: 468:AndyTheGrump 463: 386: 369: 339: 289: 281: 273: 269: 248: 244: 227: 208: 184: 172: 166: 158: 151: 145: 139: 133: 123: 72:Rasa shastra 64:Rasa shastra 45: 43: 31: 28: 769:Merging to 580:Mishra book 442:applies. - 347:substantial 149:free images 622:talk to me 374:Dougweller 257:LuckyLouie 50:Beeblebrox 888:Gandalf61 798:Doc James 789:Merge to 395:CRC Press 391:this book 865:rasayana 845:Spaceman 840:WP:MEDRS 808:contribs 791:Ayurveda 771:Ayurveda 748:rasayana 683:Jethwarp 530:Ayurveda 509:redirect 440:WP:MEDRS 434:medical 399:WP:MEDRS 274:Redirect 253:Ayurveda 187:WP:MEDRS 116:View log 764:Comment 744:Comment 576:Comment 552:Comment 485:Comment 436:alchemy 387:Comment 370:Comment 354:alchemy 350:sources 155:WP refs 143:scholar 89:protect 84:history 658:rescue 611:change 526:Delete 464:Delete 270:Delete 245:Delete 228:Delete 127:Google 93:delete 875:talk 851:Spiff 812:email 705:RexxS 654:Note: 606:Inter 421:RexxS 393:from 251:with 249:merge 213:RexxS 195:RexxS 191:WP:RS 170:JSTOR 131:books 110:views 102:watch 98:links 16:< 892:talk 884:Keep 861:Keep 832:This 821:Keep 804:talk 780:talk 709:talk 699:and 687:talk 679:Keep 632:Keep 616:able 539:talk 517:talk 472:talk 425:talk 405:. - 403:bias 378:talk 344:some 340:Keep 272:but 261:talk 255:. - 236:talk 217:talk 199:talk 163:FENS 137:news 106:logs 80:talk 76:edit 54:talk 46:keep 870:DGG 721:Axl 638:Axl 507:or 297:bli 276:to 247:or 177:TWL 114:– ( 894:) 877:) 814:) 810:· 806:· 782:) 774:. 754:- 711:) 689:) 664:- 660:. 590:- 562:- 541:) 519:) 491:- 474:) 446:- 427:) 409:- 380:) 360:- 333:. 324:. 315:. 300:nd 294:ar 291:St 288:- 263:) 238:) 219:) 201:) 157:) 108:| 104:| 100:| 96:| 91:| 87:| 82:| 78:| 56:) 890:( 873:( 827:( 802:( 778:( 726:¤ 707:( 685:( 643:¤ 619:| 537:( 515:( 470:( 423:( 376:( 259:( 234:( 215:( 197:( 181:) 173:· 167:· 159:· 152:· 146:· 140:· 134:· 129:( 121:( 118:) 112:) 74:( 52:(

Index

Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
deletion review
Beeblebrox
talk
18:31, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
Rasa shastra
Rasa shastra
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
Google
books
news
scholar
free images
WP refs
FENS
JSTOR
TWL
WP:MEDRS
WP:RS
RexxS
talk

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