905:. The length of time some of these teams and leagues have been around, the fact that they've graduated players to the pro ranks - these are considerations that contribute to importance and significance, so the speedy was inappropriate. As I've also said, I believe that the Afd nomination is not the best approach either but, if it's going to be put through the process, it should be done properly. The articles are not currently tagged as having been nominated for deletion, and there is also no evidence in the history of the articles that they've ever been tagged as such, which is a crucial component of the Afd process. The template was tagged as having been nominated, but that tag was removed by the nominator, so it too is currently lacking this critical component. How is the community expected to weigh in on the discussion without proper notice being provided?
462:) I am nominating for deletion the articles linked from this infobox. Not one of them contains any assertion of notability beyond being a team which plays in the Junior C league of the Ontario Hockey Association. When I reviewed them, I found that not one of them cited a single non-trivial independent source. Speedy deletion was overturned by an admin in the Hockey project, which claims to
837:. 124 unique Google hits, zero on Google News, zero on Google Scholar, zero in Google Books, zero on my Factiva subscription. And this is "obviously notable" in what way, please? Or how about Glanbrook Rangers: 114 unique Googles, including one scraped from test wiki, passing mention in some sports results pages. No sign of any non-trivial independent sources
466:
these articles, and a member asserts that there is consensus that teams at this level are notable. Really? These are local youth teams, and the articles are sourced solely from the team websites. In fact, Knowledge appears to be leading the world in documenting the history of these teams and their
972:
And not to pile on after my earlier comments about the laziness of this particular nomination, but let's took at the original note from the nominator, which is the only guide we have to go on regarding what articles this nomination covers - "I am nominating for deletion the articles linked from this
888:
In addition, I think there are some serious process problems here. I can't see any evidence in the history of the articles or the template that they were tagged for speedy deletion, which I assume means that the nominator performed the deletion without a tag. Lack of demonstrated notability is not a
567:
and has provided hundreds of alumnus to the pro-ranks worldwide. The assertion that this is youth athletics is false, players are up to the age of 21 years old. The "C" stands for the third tier of hockey, not of skill or notability, but of size of centre played in. If the nominator could get off
1044:
due to improper process, fallacious reasoning. These are not "youth" teams. They are junior teams. Not just junior teams, they all fall under the governance of the OHA. This is the equivalent of deleting single-A minor league baseball teams as "youth" teams. More importantly, however, is the fact
883:
If these articles do a poor job of demonstrating notability, they should be tagged as such and the community given a chance to improve them before they're deleted - this is particularly so since the articles are within the mandate of a
Wikiproject. I'm not a member of that project, but I can do a
923:
Hey, I'm nominating all articles that begin with the letter Q. Sorry, but most people would describe this as a lazy way to do a nomination for deletion. I'm willing to consider the nomination of the
Clarence Schmalz Cup, made elsewhere on this page, but one has to do a little bit of work before
611:, bordering on speedy. While I always assume good faith, this does seem a little suspicious, especially since there haven't been any cite or notability tags placed on any of the articles that I looked at from the templates. That should always,
806:
Unilateral mass speedy deletion of these articles was wrong, wrong, wrong. Why was it too hard for the nominator to add "no sources" tags to the articles that require them, but not a problem to add AfD tags to all of them? Come on!
589:
quite easily as they are in articles in various cities news papers. If they are not referenced strongly now they certainly can be cleaned up. Not a reason for deletion. THey should be tagged and improved. Smells very strongly of
829:- an assertion of notability is required. An unsourced article whose claim to notability is being a regional junior C league club has no assertion of notability. Where is the assertion of notability? Why are they
1027:. All the articles are notable. If the nominator is actually nominating articles like Hockey Canada and the Ontario Hockey Federation, then they are oversteping their bounds as an Admin by a huge margin.
467:
competitions. I think this belongs on a Wikia somewhere, I do not believe there is consensus that low-league youth teams are inherently notable or that self-soureced articles are acceptable anyway.
594:. I don't see where anyone in the project claimed they own them. I think someone just mentioned to you that you should discuss before speedying and deleting your own speedies. -
875:
491:
459:
1045:
that this AfD is almost to the halfway point and these articles have not been tagged. Any deletion would be almost certainly overturned at DRV merely for that. --
421:
409:
955:
Yes, the nominator seems to have skipped that critical step of notifying those working on the articles outside of the hockey wikiproject (no one
427:
397:
709:, I know nothing about hockey other than that it happens a lot in Canada and involves ice, sticks and a small rubber ball/cylinder/thing.
585:
Not youth hockey as the nominator seems to think. Youth hockey is below the junior level and is called Midget. All these articles can meet
415:
568:
his soapbox for a minute, he may realize that we have templates that are good for putting on articles that require more sources.
403:
93:
17:
985:
don't demonstrate notability. Hockey Canada? Really? Obviously, I know that's not what's meant, but without proper tags ...
871:
884:
Google search too, and I don't have any question that notability can be demonstrated in most, if not all, of these cases.
615:
be done before nominating something for deletion due to lack of citations or notability concerns, speedy or otherwise.
632:
You want me to tag every single one with "no sources" because, what, the entire Hockey
Wikiproject has forgotten about
787:
as per pretty much everyone above. Plenty of sources available in the form of newspapers. Definitely notable enough.
974:
371:
102:
1068:
978:
959:
articles, not even wikiprojects) that these articles are up for deletion. An administrator should know better.
867:
442:
36:
705:: Regarding concerns on the talk page of the nominator, who seems to think everyone showed up to !vote based on
680:. And a lack of article cites isn't generally a reason for deletion, let alone mass deletion. It's the topic.
1067:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
269:
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
1053:
1036:
1019:
994:
967:
948:
933:
914:
854:
816:
796:
777:
760:
744:
717:
689:
668:
653:
623:
603:
577:
551:
525:
506:
480:
62:
1010:
on this at this point. Especially since he hasn't gone through and tagged the articles with the afd tag. -
564:
71:
57:
299:
287:
143:
1051:
773:
436:
729:- per others. Speedy was wrongful, especially since they were tagged and deleted by the same admin.
929:
901:
that it is distinct from questions of notability. Importance and significance are the criteria for
516:
383:
251:
239:
167:
161:
86:
965:
945:
758:
715:
666:
621:
573:
365:
329:
191:
155:
1032:
1015:
706:
599:
534:
Sometimes, yes. Unorthodox is my middle name. Actually, no, my middle name is André after my
502:
335:
305:
257:
227:
179:
53:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
990:
910:
812:
736:
263:
233:
215:
137:
131:
125:
119:
1046:
769:
685:
591:
377:
359:
353:
347:
293:
281:
173:
149:
1007:
925:
789:
323:
317:
311:
275:
245:
197:
79:
49:
768:- per others. Speedy was improper and shows poor judgment and abuse of power by admin.
982:
960:
956:
942:
902:
894:
890:
849:
843:
826:
753:
710:
661:
648:
642:
616:
569:
546:
540:
475:
469:
463:
448:
209:
1028:
1011:
834:
633:
595:
498:
341:
221:
185:
203:
986:
906:
808:
731:
637:
586:
681:
535:
973:
infobox.". That means that they're also asserting that the articles for the
752:: Can someone link to the discussion where the speedy was overturned?
1061:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
75:
941:
None of the articles appear to have been marked for deletion.
833:
unsourced? Let's look at a randomly chosen example,
390:
112:
39:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1071:). No further edits should be made to this page.
515:You have a strange way of doing things, Guy.
87:
8:
660:Um, yes. That's exactly what I advocate.
492:list of Hockey-related deletion discussions
94:
80:
72:
490:: This debate has been included in the
7:
68:Ontario Hockey Junior C League teams
924:tearing down someone else's house.
24:
18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion
893:- in fact, the description of
1:
1088:
975:Ontario Hockey Association
372:Wheatley-Southpoint Sharks
103:Ontario Hockey Association
1054:19:30, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
1037:17:07, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
1020:16:41, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
995:17:01, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
979:Ontario Hockey Federation
968:15:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
949:15:39, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
934:14:49, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
915:13:52, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
889:valid criteria for using
876:12:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
855:07:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
817:02:55, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
797:22:42, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
793:(formerly tim.bounceback)
778:21:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
761:21:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
745:21:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
718:23:56, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
690:23:30, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
669:21:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
654:21:25, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
624:21:22, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
604:21:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
578:21:07, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
552:21:03, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
526:21:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
507:21:17, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
481:20:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
443:Ontario Hockey Federation
434:
63:20:06, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
1064:Please do not modify it.
866:Maybe keep the leagues.
270:Little Britain Merchants
32:Please do not modify it.
1025:Strongest Possible Keep
565:National Hockey League
422:Niagara & District
300:New Hamburg Firebirds
288:Mount Forest Patriots
144:Belle River Canadiens
52:(non-admin closure).
437:Clarence Schmalz Cup
410:Georgian Mid-Ontario
1006:I would call for a
868:Shoemaker's Holiday
384:Woodstock Renegades
252:Kincardine Bulldogs
240:Grimsby Peach Kings
168:Chippawa Riverhawks
162:Campbellford Rebels
707:liking the subject
563:Feeder system for
366:Wallaceburg Lakers
330:Port Perry Mojacks
192:Dunnville Terriers
156:Caledonia Corvairs
853:
794:
652:
550:
538:, but nearly :-)
523:
509:
495:
479:
455:
454:
336:Schomberg Cougars
306:Norwich Merchants
258:Kingsville Comets
228:Glanbrook Rangers
180:Dresden Jr. Kings
60:
1079:
1066:
847:
795:
792:
740:
734:
646:
544:
521:
519:
518:Ten Pound Hammer
496:
486:
473:
264:Lakefield Chiefs
234:Goderich Sailors
216:Frontenac Flyers
138:Aylmer Spitfires
132:Amherstview Jets
126:Alvinston Flyers
120:Alliston Hornets
96:
89:
82:
73:
58:
44:The result was
34:
1087:
1086:
1082:
1081:
1080:
1078:
1077:
1076:
1075:
1069:deletion review
1062:
788:
738:
732:
517:
456:
451:
430:
428:Western Ontario
398:Central Ontario
386:
378:Wingham Ironmen
360:Walkerton Hawks
354:Uxbridge Bruins
348:Stayner Siskins
294:Napanee Raiders
282:Mooretown Flags
174:Colborne Cobras
150:Blenheim Blades
108:
100:
70:
37:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
1085:
1083:
1074:
1073:
1057:
1056:
1039:
1022:
1000:
999:
998:
997:
952:
951:
936:
886:
885:
878:
860:
859:
858:
857:
820:
819:
800:
799:
781:
780:
763:
747:
724:
723:
722:
721:
720:
695:
694:
693:
692:
671:
657:
656:
627:
626:
606:
580:
557:
556:
555:
554:
536:famous forbear
529:
528:
522:and his otters
510:
453:
452:
435:
432:
431:
396:
394:
392:
388:
387:
324:Picton Pirates
318:Penetang Kings
312:Paris Mounties
276:Midland Flyers
246:Hanover Barons
198:Erin Shamrocks
118:
116:
114:
110:
109:
101:
99:
98:
91:
84:
76:
69:
66:
42:
41:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1084:
1072:
1070:
1065:
1059:
1058:
1055:
1052:
1050:
1049:
1043:
1040:
1038:
1034:
1030:
1026:
1023:
1021:
1017:
1013:
1009:
1005:
1002:
1001:
996:
992:
988:
984:
983:Hockey Canada
980:
976:
971:
970:
969:
966:
964:
963:
958:
954:
953:
950:
947:
944:
940:
937:
935:
931:
927:
922:
919:
918:
917:
916:
912:
908:
904:
900:
896:
892:
882:
879:
877:
873:
869:
865:
862:
861:
856:
851:
846:
845:
840:
836:
832:
828:
824:
823:
822:
821:
818:
814:
810:
805:
802:
801:
798:
791:
786:
783:
782:
779:
775:
771:
767:
764:
762:
759:
757:
756:
751:
748:
746:
743:
742:
741:
735:
728:
725:
719:
716:
714:
713:
708:
704:
701:
700:
699:
698:
697:
696:
691:
687:
683:
679:
676:At least the
675:
672:
670:
667:
665:
664:
659:
658:
655:
650:
645:
644:
639:
635:
631:
630:
629:
628:
625:
622:
620:
619:
614:
610:
607:
605:
601:
597:
593:
588:
584:
581:
579:
575:
571:
566:
562:
559:
558:
553:
548:
543:
542:
537:
533:
532:
531:
530:
527:
520:
514:
511:
508:
504:
500:
493:
489:
485:
484:
483:
482:
477:
472:
471:
465:
461:
450:
449:Hockey Canada
447:
444:
441:
438:
433:
429:
426:
423:
420:
417:
414:
411:
408:
405:
402:
399:
395:
389:
385:
382:
379:
376:
373:
370:
367:
364:
361:
358:
355:
352:
349:
346:
343:
340:
337:
334:
331:
328:
325:
322:
319:
316:
313:
310:
307:
304:
301:
298:
295:
292:
289:
286:
283:
280:
277:
274:
271:
268:
265:
262:
259:
256:
253:
250:
247:
244:
241:
238:
235:
232:
229:
226:
223:
220:
217:
214:
211:
210:Fergus Devils
208:
205:
202:
199:
196:
193:
190:
187:
184:
181:
178:
175:
172:
169:
166:
163:
160:
157:
154:
151:
148:
145:
142:
139:
136:
133:
130:
127:
124:
121:
117:
111:
107:
104:
97:
92:
90:
85:
83:
78:
77:
74:
67:
65:
64:
61:
55:
51:
47:
40:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
1063:
1060:
1047:
1041:
1024:
1003:
961:
938:
920:
898:
887:
880:
863:
842:
838:
835:Simcoe Storm
830:
803:
784:
765:
754:
749:
737:
730:
726:
711:
702:
677:
673:
662:
641:
640:? Come on.
617:
612:
608:
582:
560:
539:
512:
487:
468:
457:
445:
439:
424:
418:
412:
406:
400:
380:
374:
368:
362:
356:
350:
344:
342:Simcoe Storm
338:
332:
326:
320:
314:
308:
302:
296:
290:
284:
278:
272:
266:
260:
254:
248:
242:
236:
230:
224:
222:Georgina Ice
218:
212:
206:
200:
194:
188:
186:Dundas Blues
182:
176:
170:
164:
158:
152:
146:
140:
134:
128:
122:
105:
54:PeterSymonds
45:
43:
31:
28:
1042:Strong Keep
881:Strong keep
804:Strong keep
785:Strong keep
766:Strong Keep
727:Strong Keep
609:Strong Keep
583:Strong Keep
561:Strong Keep
416:Great Lakes
1048:Smashville
841:the team.
770:Flibirigit
204:Essex 73's
106:Junior "C"
926:Mandsford
903:WP:CSD#A7
895:WP:CSD#A7
891:WP:CSD#A7
827:WP:CSD#A7
790:paranomia
962:Celarnor
899:explicit
755:Celarnor
712:Celarnor
678:main one
663:Celarnor
618:Celarnor
592:WP:POINT
570:DMighton
460:View log
404:Empire B
46:keep all
1029:Patken4
1012:Djsasso
1008:WP:SNOW
1004:Comment
939:Comment
750:Comment
703:Comment
674:Comment
596:Djsasso
513:Comment
499:Djsasso
393:leagues
391:Current
113:Current
50:WP:SNOW
987:Mlaffs
981:, and
907:Mlaffs
864:Delete
809:Canley
613:always
464:WP:OWN
850:Help!
839:about
682:Hobit
649:Help!
634:WP:RS
547:Help!
476:Help!
115:teams
16:<
1033:talk
1016:talk
991:talk
957:owns
946:lute
943:Reso
930:talk
921:Keep
911:talk
872:talk
825:See
813:talk
774:talk
733:Grsz
686:talk
638:WP:N
636:and
600:talk
587:WP:N
574:talk
503:talk
488:Note
59:talk
48:per
897:is
844:Guy
831:all
643:Guy
541:Guy
524:•
494:.
470:Guy
1035:)
1018:)
993:)
977:,
932:)
913:)
874:)
815:)
807:--
776:)
739:11
688:)
602:)
576:)
505:)
56:|
1031:(
1014:(
989:(
928:(
909:(
870:(
852:)
848:(
811:(
772:(
684:(
651:)
647:(
598:(
572:(
549:)
545:(
501:(
497:—
478:)
474:(
458:(
446:·
440:·
425:·
419:·
413:·
407:·
401:·
381:·
375:·
369:·
363:·
357:·
351:·
345:·
339:·
333:·
327:·
321:·
315:·
309:·
303:·
297:·
291:·
285:·
279:·
273:·
267:·
261:·
255:·
249:·
243:·
237:·
231:·
225:·
219:·
213:·
207:·
201:·
195:·
189:·
183:·
177:·
171:·
165:·
159:·
153:·
147:·
141:·
135:·
129:·
123:·
95:e
88:t
81:v
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.