1276:
games are citing the New York Times? No, they cite gaming websites which normally wouldn't be considered "RSs" except when dealing with video games. "The People's Cube" is a political satire site which is mostly going to be cited by other satire sites, political sites, talk shows, etc; and it's those types of things which establish its notability. We wouldn't expect it to be cited by the
Journal of the American Medical Association. As for some people's interpretation of policy: if this article fails notability by that interpretation, then probably 70% of the other articles here would also fail by the same interpretation. An interpretation of policy which would rule out most of the articles here is not a reasonable interpretation, and it's stridently Deletionist. The trouble with Deletionism is that it pretends Knowledge (XXG) has a strict space limit like a print encyclopedia, thereby defeating the entire point of an online, open-ended encyclopedia.
939:
throughout the blogosphere. Oleg
Atbashian's writing has been published by websites too numerous to mention, including The American Thinker, PJ Media, and his political activism explored extensively by other websites, such as FrontPageMag.com. He's been interviewed by dozens of prominent media outlets, including The Rebel Media, and given speeches throughout the country to civic and political groups and clubs. His work has been cited by Michelle Malkin, among many others. His graphics have been used in scores of protests, both before and after the Tea Party revolution. The only rationale for deleting this entry would be extreme ideological bias against the ideas he's expressed.
2088:- the scientific guide to the various species of Pokemons. Here you will find a taxonomic chart that includes the full evolutionary sequence (Squirtle evolves into Wartortle; Mega Lizardon X does not evolve, and so on). What do you suppose the "reliable sources" are for this chart? Scientific journals? Biology textbooks? CNN? No, most of it comes from the game company's own "Pokedex". There are tens of thousands of similar articles dealing with other video games, using sources that most of the people here would not consider reliable but which are usually deemed usable for that type of context. Don't accuse me of
3734:. The sources used to support it are, at best, weak. Reference 1 is a passing mention in a book. Reference 2 might be useful in the context of other references, but by itself is of minimal use; discussing the logo in the context of an opinion piece on a separate topic rather than the site itself. Reference 3 has a passing quote from Atbashian and doesn't discuss the site. Reference 4 is another trivial mention in a book. The remaining references are about the urban legend/meme, which as others have noted doesn't have merit for notability for itself. We should also perhaps take a look at a possible AfD for
677:- Whenever the subject of "notability" comes up, I'm reminded of the persistent attempt to delete all articles about historical nobles below the rank of Baronet while keeping every single article about every minor video game character. "Notability" is very much a relative thing: I think "The People's Cube" is notable to anyone who is interested in political satire, just as nobles below the rank of Baronet are notable to historians and history buffs even if they may not be 'household names' to the video gamer set. I don't see any reason to delete this article.
3534:- There seems to be a great deal of interest in this topic and a number of people who support having an article on it, but there doesn't appear to be the number and degree of independent sourcing to establish a standalone article. If there were some other sort of list type article which could reasonably include this one, fine, maybe add it there. If there isn't, there seems to be based on the number of comments here to be enough basis to salt the article until and unless separate notability can be clearly established.
2812:, which is the what the primary beef a lot of the !voters expressed above. Furthermore, your hypothetical is already doomed, since "the only information they have" does not come from the website or its owners. That would be the job of the other ~15 citations or so. This goes back to what I was saying earlier - if you think certain sources are "not reliable" on this matter, please lay those out here, in detail, so they can be addressed, and the offending text re-sourced or removed. I also have to point out
1323:
character. But no one objects to that, based on the reasoning that a gaming database is the best available source for stuff like this. There's a tremendous double standard here. My 70% figure was a very rough estimate, sure, but think of all the tens of thousands of articles on video games and video game characters, soap opera characters, porn stars, etc, etc. How many of those articles would pass your litmus test? And how many of them are backed up with citations from prestigious RSs? And no, this isn't
2492:
a "People's Cube" toy, NOT the site. 8 (and the others that are just blogs) - self-created content. 9 - no mention of the site. 12 - about the Toy, not the site. 13 - passing mention. 14 - passing mention. 15 - passing mention. 16 - passing mention. 19 - yet another blog. 20 & 21 - not about the site. I haven't missed any out, I just don't like repeating myself. Now, you probably aren't going to understand the problem, so let me point it out in as few words as possible. None of these are
2766:) I can wikify that interview list (since it's strictly a list of titles, dates, and links - no copyvio) and add it to the article if you think it's really necessary, but given what I just read, and the policy on interviews, there are at least 35 verified interviews with the author of this site that appear to be independent of the author himself. In my mind, that establishes notability all by itself to the word and spirit of
1542:: "Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (op-eds) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact." What a talk show host says on their talk show is not a reliable source either. Even if they were, they provide only passing information.
1074:
not an encyclopedia, that is a directory. I could write pages upon pages about my experience with my first car or the comic that showed up in my local neighborhood newspaper. I could find notable people to also write about it and publish it or interview me. That doesn't make me or that comic notable. Perhaps I am misunderstanding because I'm new but it seems that this is not the place to challenge notability
3613:
73:
3053:, and clicked through to several of the sources. This seems to be a perfectly reasonable Knowledge (XXG) article. There's a fairly wide variety of sources, including significant coverage in books from academic institutions, and some from major newspapers. Further sources will certainly help in creating a more nicely-rounded article, but what's in there now is, in my view, enough to clear the
3083:; but inaccuracy, such as a fake newspaper headline from 1943, has the general effect of reducing the due weight to be given to the information. There is also a problem here of WP:SYNTH, as Knowledge (XXG) is not a publisher of original thought, which this topic as a whole represents. The attempt by the topic to preserve its article on Knowledge (XXG) is evidence that the topic hasn't
2794:. Putting aside for a moment the details of policy and guidelines, do you think that anyone could write a faur and objective article about a website when the only information they have comes from the website or its owners? And bear in mind it is a "satirical" website that distorts reality for humorous effect. This discussion for example is referred to in its site as a "show trial."
3202:- After lots of revision to respond to this discussion the article relies so much on the NYT meme for content that it's now less about the site and more about the meme. Rather than prolong this process proponents of the article could spend some time gathering better sources with more focused references to the site, and then run a new draft by some of the more experienced names above.
603:
website, but the most common iteration of the meme is not that from The People's Cube, but a significantly modified one. The Cutts blog is, well, a blog; it's not a reliable source. That Google yanked TPC off its lists isn't notable, that happens hundreds of times (if not more) a day. I'm sorry that the website isn't as notable as you'd like, but it simply isn't.
552:- Not finding independent reliable sources for which this website is the primary (or even a significant) subject; there are only passing references. The mere existence of a meme originating from a website does not make the website itself notable (although the meme could be independently notable - the whole point of a meme is that it goes beyond its origin).
1520:
people who have discussed this subject at length. Michelle Malkin, an extremely popular blogger and best-selling author has praised Oleg and his website on several different occasions. All of his major radio and Web interviews are linked to on his site, but these interviews took place on other forums. I don't see what part of this is difficult to understand.
2564:: I disagree with this interpretation. If a source is notable because of a certain thing they did, in this case, creating a bogus news article, it is not a "passing mention" to call out that thing they did (13). Snopes confirms that this image was being circulated via email, and debunked it. (14), About.com did similar (15). All of these are RSes.
2990:, but I didn't mean for it to become a major focus of the discussion -- just that Wikipedians should be aware of it, if they found themselves confused by why there were so many !votes from new and less experienced contributors. I'm pretty sure the outcome will be just fine, and will not afford undue influence to the site itself. -
2964:
Except "rallying their readers" doesn't appear to have done much in this case, and this was with a stickied front page article on their site. What else are they going to do? I see few questionable comments by newbies, and the atmosphere was very much in favor of nuking it before I tried reworking it.
2913:
is happy to have a
Knowledge (XXG) article sourced entirely to them, either directly or indirectly. They see it as a advertisement. But as soon as any piece of negative information is written about them or anyone connected with them in reliable sources, that advantage will disppear and this article
2491:
1 - Alexa - does not establish notability. 2 (and 11) - Washington Times
Communities - written by Abtashian - not independent source. 3 (and the others from) the People's Cube - not independent source for obvious reasons. 5 - only a passing mention of the site. 6 - passing mentions. 7 - article about
1275:
The argument about a lack of "RSs" in this case is rather silly, since we're dealing with an element of pop culture whose notability must be established by other things in the pop culture, not by academic journals or top news sources. Do you think the thousands of
Knowledge (XXG) articles about video
1073:
and that is why articles require different types of sources. Anyone can write about anything and generate search results in google or publish it in a local paper. If this were the accepted standard, every person that wanted a
Knowledge (XXG) page for their fly-by-night business would have one. That's
1020:
sources exist but not a single source that you linked is independent and reliable... Also one should not have to look solely at the subject's website to determine notability, that's the entire point I'm making. Anyone can claim anything they like about themselves - that's why interviews are generally
735:
Well the problem is whatever you were referring to, you don't seem to have explained why this article is notable. It being notable to people who are interested in political satire isn't an argument based on any accepted guideline or policy. (Nor for that matter the baronet thing. Significant coverage
3109:
there are dozens upon dozens of instances of organic media coverage both online and off. Ranging from citations-and reprints of previously published articles-in
Advertising Age, the Washington Times, the Washington Post and the New York Post to discussions of the website on Russia Today. Even if you
2879:
The intention there was your refusal (and continuing refusal) to point out specific issues with the non-primary sources used. WP:WEASEL is about the use of weasel words rather than quoting individual people. Your complaints are about unspecified bad sources rather than quoting individual ones, which
2134:
But it mostly uses the company's own website as a source for the "data" on
Pokemons. You're also missing the main point, which was: it's common practice to allow a different litmus test for "reliable sources" based on individual context (in the Pokemon articles, gaming websites and the company's own
3147:
as no consensus and renominate if needed. The article that is being discussed now is fundamentally different than the one that was discussed originally, and the inherent complexity of considering every !vote in accordance with how the article was at that particular time makes this discussion nearly
2292:
who has been quietly working to improve the article during the AfD. Any administrator should have the ability to see past the !votes that are not rooted in policy, and should apply less weight to !votes that were entered prior to improvements and not updated. You should of course proceed as you see
2193:
I'm working on a userspace draft of this article. Currently, it has most of the primary cites excised and the remainders used explicitly to support self published statements, and a heck of a lot more secondaries. However, I'm going to wait until this closes as delete before I even think of floating
1805:
Keep: Oleg
Atbashians job in the ussr was a propagandist. To see him censored here creates a very dangerous precedent, esp in these times. I can unequivocally say that Knowledge (XXG) will not receive a single penny from me ever if he is censored. But I will work on a competitor and replacement for
1120:
Your comparison to blatantly self-promoting websites is revealing. This is a prominent website which has been repeatedly cited on national talk radio shows-the most popular talk radio show, in fact-podcasts, published articles, interviews, and books, and whose artwork has been broadcast on national
602:
The mention in the deGrasse book is fleeting - a single sentence; it's not a significant subject of the book by any stretch of the imagination. We'd be looking for several pages of discussion, if not a whole chapter. The Snopes and About.com references mention that the specific meme started at the
2315:
I see where you're coming from, but I'm speaking from years of reading AfDs here. We live in a world where people don't often act rationally even if it is good faith at the end of the day. I'm concerned that any improvements made here and now will be deemed insufficient (seriously, look upthread -
1293:
While I mostly agree with your reasoning regarding
Knowledge (XXG)'s notability guidelines being overly restrictive (I am often saddened to see decent articles getting deleted, merged, or gutted), I think there is also a matter of verifiability here. If there are no sources actually going in depth
958:
I'm not going to dispute that with you but I am going to ask for sources. Several people in this AfD have said ""he" or the website have been talked about at xyz" but so far no one has provided any sources and those of us who did do some searching came up empty handed for RS. I can say the moon is
822:
arguments in the world is not going to change the facts of the matter. All the pleas from the website isn't going to fix the fact that there isn't enough independent reliable sources that discuss the topic in depth. There is not enough there to show that the website merits an independent Knowledge
2949:
Of course not. But they can lobby their readers to vote for keeping, which they have done in this case. If they get enough of their readers to do that, then they can win a keep vote. Even if they do not do that, they are perfectly free to vote in deletion discussions and to attempt to persuade
2350:
WP:RS does a rather poor job of explaining anything objectively, rather pointing at a set of criteria that will have to be interpreted. As in judgment calls made. The problem is, I want to actually go over the article and its cites (and not in the handwavy "not good enough" sense that's been done
3474:
Note that going back to the beginning of this thread, those in favor of deleting have outnumbered those in favor of keeping. The margin by which they are outnumbered has been growing at a steady rate since then. I'm fairly certain this isn't so much an influx of "delete" !votes, but an influx of
3283:
as others have said there is a lack of quality sourcing to support an article at this time. The site itself can't be used as a notability source either. Article in its current state is little different from how it was when first nominated, so that call to "close as no consensus" above is silly.
1846:
Nobody is being censored, and nobody is impressed by threats to withhold donations - you can't influence editors in that way. If the subject of this article has Substantial Coverage in Reliable, Independent Sources then this article will be kept. If it doesn't, it won't. It's really that simple.
1519:
What are you talking about? I've referenced and linked to multiple non-trivial sources, on the Internet, talk radio, and television,which have discussed The People's Cube and Oleg Atbashian at length. Again, Rush Limbaugh-the most popular terrestrial radio host in this country-is just one of the
1322:
To establish that something is popular in the culture, you don't need academic journals or other prestigious sources. The many articles about Pokemon characters often cite the company's own website as a source, since the New York Times doesn't have a database on the exact traits of every Pokeman
644:
Newly invented? The GNG required significant or multiple non trivial coverage since the early development of the guidelines which was in the days when a bunch of people still thought Hillary Clinton was going to be the 44th President of the USA as she'd manage to defeat this upstart senator ....
3226:
these are still passing mentions, except for one article dedicated to The People's Cube, by which I mean the toy - not the site itself. There is no reason for me to change my vote, and given the amount of time that has passed since this article's nomination I'm not convinced that the in-depth,
2218:
to support the recreation of this article later, why not just add them to the article now? That'd remove the reason for its deletion. There's no rule that says articles can't be improved during AfD discussions - be bold, remove all the silly blog-based sources from the article now and add the
2169:
Yeah, it's part of a very large group of articles on literally every single character in that video game series, no matter how obscure some of the characters may be; and yet here we're being told that a popular website isn't "notable" ? That's astoundingly ironic, and THAT was my main point.
1429:
While anybody can comment, deletion discussions tend to be an exclusive affair for the local Knowledge (XXG) community. We would not be much of a global encyclopedia if we let random external websites dominate and decide AfDs for us. Our policies and criteria are based on the consensus of the
1948:
The way it works is quite simple and straightforward. If the subject of this article meets the notability criteria that have been pointed out, the article is kept. If not, it isn't. It doesn't matter how many canvassed votes appear on this page - after all, this is a discussion not a ballot.
938:
The idea that this isn't a notable website is absurd on its face. It's been discussed, repeatedly, on Rush Limbaugh-the most popular talk radio show in the country. Its work has been cited by astronomer Michael Eric Dyson in The Pluto Files. Its dispute with Google was chronicled extensively
1571:
Recognition in the general culture is not sufficient reason to have an article, there must be reliable sources that can be used to write the article. The Malkin and Limbaugh references for example fail reliable sources and should be removed. All we would be left with is information from
3110:
adhered to the esoteric definition of notability used by some of the editors above, i.e. any reference on Web magazines and weblogs, no matter how prominent, doesn't count, it still wouldn't erase the dozens of references on cable television, published books, newspapers, and magazines.
3104:
The people advocating for deletion seem to have a tendency to ignore the massive amount of evidence which refutes their argument. The fact that information supporting notability is hosted on The People's Cube doesn't mean that evidence was created by the website itself. As Oleg has
2686:
Again. How is a book (many of them, by otherwise reliable authors) saying "Website X did Y thing, here is an evaluation of it" a mere "namecheck"? Please explain your reasoning. I've done so. There's entirely too much repetition and very little in depth reasoning being used in this
2367:
You'll have to take it through the Articles for Creation process then if you insist on doing it the hard way - if it's not substantially different to this article (should it be deleted after this discussion) then there's a good chance your new article will be speedily deleted under
2849:
is established by coverage in reliable secondary sources, not by how often something is discussed in the blogosphere, unless and until reliable secondary sources pick up on it. If you don't like that policy, get it changed. Furthermore, while self-published sources may be used,
1387:
I am a bit split on this sites notability. In a YouTube video Fareed Zakaria complains about this site without mentioning it directly (as an obscure website). So on one end they aren't very notable based on my simple google search. On the other hand they caused enough grief to be
2288:. I have not !voted here yet, because it has not yet become clear to me whether or not the site is notable; and I suspect the closing administrator will take the evolution of the article into account. It's clear that a lot of people think it is, and I appreciate the efforts of
2722:
I'm inclined to agree with Peteforsyth that this is looking a bit closer to the fence than it did at the beginning. Now that sources have been offered from a few published books and reputable authors, I've temporarily struck my delete !vote above and will take a second look.
3087:, and is seeking to attract that attention. Knowledge (XXG) has a duty to not help in that attempt. It seems unlikely at this point that the world will ever care that this website existed, and a look at Google Books and Google Scholar is not a reason to think otherwise.
2316:
even one single N,RS should be enough to merit inclusion, yet here we are with a torrent of delete votes), and this held against the article. I want to have the "what sources are okay" and "how many are enough" discussion on the drawing board, not the slaughterhouse floor.
2336:- How many? Enough to establish Significant Coverage in Reliable, Independent Sources - there's no set limit. I've seen articles survive AfD discussions due to 3 articles about them in reliable sources. Note the "about them" part - passing mentions aren't enough.
1767:. It would indeed be notable if there was an example of good, funny, right-wing satire, but the consensus appears to be that this isn't it, so has been generally ignored by the kinds of sources we require. Sadly, all right-wing satire appears to fail Poe's Law.
762:- Throwing out the existing unreliable sources leaves the article with very little good info to go on. However, as a general rule, I dislike subjective notions of notability used as the primary reason for deleting anything. I could just as easily point out the
2597:
I didn't think you'd agree, but I find your statement that you think I'm not acting in good faith to be rather offensive after spending my free time evaluating the sources you provided. I'm not going to help you any further or reply to you. Please remember to
877:. None of the article's current sources demonstrate notability and none of the article's statements are supported by a reliable source. There are a couple of reliable sources out there, but they only mention The People's Cube in passing and do not provide
2707:
for the effort, you have greatly improved the case for keeping an article. Those voting Delete should take a look and reconsider; I'm convinced it's not the clear-cut case it initially appeared to be. I'm still on the fence; I appreciate your efforts.
2249:
and canvassed environment. On top of that, I find that RFC is much more friendly and much less "sudden death" than AfD. Let this one burn, and then I'll see if the community thinks it deserves to rise from the ashes. If it fails there.. welp, I tried.
770:. I think notability is a non-issue here. However, the lion's share of the article being a blatant copyvio is. I think this article needs to be rewritten, and some better sources (like the one I just gave) used. I don't think it needs to be trashed.
1327:
given that such articles make up such a large percentage of Knowledge (XXG). They are in fact the norm, not the exception. My point was that some of you guys would need to delete most of Knowledge (XXG) to enforce your interpretation of the rules.
621:
is proof of the site's notability. Discounting the reference in "Pluto Files" as "fleeting" seems like POV -- the requirement for a citation to involve "several pages" to count seems newly-invented. To summarize, the site is no less notable than
2818:
Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves, especially in articles about themselves, without the requirement that they be published experts in the field, so long as the following criteria are
1121:
television in a number of well-publicized protests. To try to minimize the significance of this website and its founder is illustrative of your real motives, which have nothing to do with the procedural minutiae you've been harping on.
648:. Actually the time from now to when it was added to GNG is a few years more than the time from when it was added to when wikipedia first came to be. In other words, if that's "newly-invented" you have a very weird definition of "new".
343:
The efforts to remove the article about the site can only be explained by the severe dislike of the site itself -- this becomes immediately obvious after reading the article's discussion-page... There are no reasons to delete it.
1141:
for the last time, stop accusing me of having an ulterior motive unless you have some sort of evidence. I presented my reasoning and have not given any reason to doubt that. And since you seem to have missed my point last time,
1494:, "gained sufficiently significant attention by the world at large and over a period of time." There are few if any mentions in mainstream media and none in depth. The "Snopes" article is about a rumor that started with the
2135:
website are allowed for certain things), but whenever anyone in this discussion asks for evidence of notability in the pop culture, they refuse to accept pop cultural sources and then claim there aren't enough sources.
278:
1874:
KEEP. Not sure how this works. But why would you remove anything? You're supposed to be wikipedia. You shouldn't be any more frightened of libertarian satire than left leaning satire. So here is a link to Limbaugh...
2880:
I would like to fix if present. I have to assume that this means that you haven't actually examined them yet. Please do so. Also please see my above notes about interviews by multiple parties establishing notability
2297:, but I'd urge you to consider simply putting your draft in article space, where it might further benefit from the efforts of others. Even if it's deleted, if you feel the deletion is improper, you can always seek a
1992:(see "notability fallacies"). The question is not whether you or me have heard of it — it's whether it's received independent, in-depth coverage from secondary sources. And this website doesn't appear to have those.
448:
I'm not sure why you think I was canvassed into coming here? The only reason I even noticed this page is because of a tweet that appeared in relation to a Knowledge (XXG) search on Twitter. Ironically, it was from
2083:
If anyone really thinks that a double standard isn't being used regarding "reliable sources" and "notability", I invite you to look at any of the uncountable articles about the Pokemon video game series, such as
3049:. My strong inclination prior to this AfD was to delete, and the flood of ill-informed "keep" votes underscored that view. However, I have now reviewed the newer version of the article put together primarily by
2985:
Agreed. All the hand-wringing about canvassing is in my view a little silly. Our administrators know how to ignore !votes (on both sides) that fail to reference policy or advance an argument. I think I was the
3729:
It's disappointing, if all too common, that people attempt to recruit biased voters to an AfD. Though such behavior leaves a bad taste, it does not influence my recommendation here. I've reviewed the article
2531:
mentions in books by various authors, one of whom is Neil DeGrasse Tyson (4,5,13) , and one more from a notable talk show host (8). All of these are secondary sources. One should be enough, have six. It is
1556:
He was offering those sources as proof that the site and its author have recognition in the general culture, rather than claiming these sources are prestigious or neutral journalistic or academic sources.
3017:
I mentioned the canvassing up, because A Certain White Cat commented "I noticed this article on this very nomination." I wanted to point out that the article he linked to was a call for canvassing on
1382:
against this deletion, interfering with our local affairs. Even if the article is kept, it is evident that this article needs to be closely watched against conflicts of interest by the editors editing it.
1403:
Our local affairs? This is not the Kiwanis Club. This is a global encyclopedia that allows anyone-and everyone-to edit articles and contribute to discussions, regardless of whether they are Wikipedians.
818:
and you need to understand that this is not the place to air your grievances towards Knowledge (XXG) policy. This article does not meet notability as it is currently written. Sorry it doesn't. All the
3222:
As I gave my word that I'd revisit this issue once all the unreliable references (blogs, passing mentions and references from T.P.C.'s own site) were removed, I've come back for a second look. As of
921:
709:
I was referring to a systematic problem with the way "notability" is analyzed, so I think my comments were relevant and not based on a "misunderstanding". This type of issue comes up constantly.
2933:
I'm not sure what relevance this has to do with keeping the article or not. The subject of the article doesn't get to unilaterally decide if the article should exists or not, or its content.
2194:
it in an RFC, given the !voting landscape I see here. This discussion is a mess thanks to TPC's canvassing, and the overwhelming sentiment here is to nuke it rather than fix its problems.
1308:"Other things in the pop culture" still have to be reliable. That's a discussion for WP:RSN, not for here. Your estimate of the 70% is based on nothing at all, as far as I can see. Sorry,
404:"debunking" The People's Cube's satire. The "rumors" they "debunk" have originated on the site, which makes the site notable. It is not any more a "faked newspaper", than is, for example,
1213:
2550:: Only ever used to source a claim that.. the primary source said something. If the paragraph says "Exemplo347 said X", and the cite is Exemplo347's website, it is not unacceptable per
2536:
a requirement of WP:N that it be established by one particular source to the exclusion of others. I question how you conclude that direct references of secondary sources talking about
1232:
per Risker. Needs independent RS coverage. Snopes doesn't establish notability, otherwise we'd have an article on Brian Peppers. (Oh god I'm old enough to remember that edit war!)
231:
2620:
for you to have fully evaluated 21 sources in 27 minutes. This would require you to have spent absolutely no more than 1 minute and 17 seconds per source assuming you started looking
3620:
1989:
80:
1970:
I'm from the French part of Switzerland and I know this parody website , some of their edits are even translated in French. This WP page meets the notability criteria for me. --
1378:
on this very nomination. This is a FIRST for me where the AFD itself has coverage when I search for the article topic on google news. It seems like the source itself is trying to
885:
by someone affiliated with the site and included a lengthly "founder's bio", a copyright violation, that stuck around for almost 9 years. Canvassing has taken place both on their
309:
Only sources are their own website, snopes and an urban legend debunking website. Article would need to be significantly rewritten to be encyclopedic and is questionably notable.
987:
1050:
Right. This comment basically proves for me that the "notability" policy as it exists here is utterly and completely broken. When someone can have this much coverage and it's
814:
You know, I wasn't actually going to !vote here but the sheer misunderstanding of notability as it pertains to Knowledge (XXG) on this AFD is astounding. You all need to read
272:
2756:
An independent interviewer represents the "world at large" giving attention to the subject, and as such, interviews as a whole contribute to the basic concept of notability.
511:
823:(XXG) article of its own. I'm sorry. Facts are facts. And the fact is, the website doesn't meet the criteria for inclusion at this time. That is not to say that it will
52:. There isn't any other way this is going to end. There are a couple (and only a couple) of reasonable comments in favour of Keeping this, but consensus is clear.
2569:
I also find it very hard to believe that you critically evaluated 21 different citations in the 27 minutes between my comment being posted and your original reply.
1351:: An editor has now substantially reworked the article. I have not reviewed the references or changes in detail; just noting this here for those following the AFD.
2092:
because articles like these are practically the norm, not exceptional cases. I fully expect the Deletionists to go through and get rid of all of these articles.
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obvious huge promotional pressure and this doesn't meet GNG. The revision of the article doesn't change that. Even what is there now, are passing mentions.
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The problems remain. Sources are either unreliable, or not about the subject. Namechecks is about as good as it gets. Sorry, I'm afraid you wasted your time.
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And if you then decide you want the article deleted, it is going to be difficult, especially if the evil mainstream media have published an exposé article.
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after I posted. If you want me to assume good faith, I'd thank you to not attempt to deceive me by claiming that you did work you couldn't humanly have.
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the snopes article talks about the faked newspaper itself and that it was once on the website, which is the only mention of the website in the article.
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2852:"Knowledge (XXG) articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources."
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Before anyone suggests that I didn't go through each one of these sources individually, I assure you I did, giving myself a headache in the process.
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Oh, bullshit. How long is it supposed to take to determine that a passing mention is only a passing mention? If there's nothing more to read, you
1078:. The policy exists currently and until that changes, it has to be applied to any and all articles, not those that you and I selectively choose.
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policies - if you can remove every single primary, blog based or other useless source and add something real, I'll change my !vote on the spot.
1099:...in any case, I guess there's no point in litigating that here. I think it's blindingly obvious just by a count how this discussion will end.
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Which you might have noticed if you had taken a cursory glance at his website-you know, the one you're so eager to delete from Knowledge (XXG).
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The trouble might be one less page on Knowledge (XXG) might be the competitors gain including satirical sites like Encyclopedia Dramatica. --
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and Snopes' statement that one of their satirical pieces was taken literally. And surely that is not enough to write an informative article.
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Yes, but those normally don't show up in the google news feed. That can create a lot of noise here (as evident by the blatant canvassing). --
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Interviews are not reliable sources except for what someone has said. And lots of the sources are not reliable anyway, such as programs by
989:. And here's a link to a selection of interviews he's done over the past 5 years on the Web, satellite and terrestrial radio, and podcasts.
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It always ring alarm bells when someone links to a policy or guideline without explaining how it relates. WP:WEASEL for example links to
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3168:- As per Neutrality, there's no in-depth secondary coverage to differentiate this from a million other places where people talk online.
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demands. I would like to note that personal blogs are generally not considered reliable sources by Knowledge (XXG)'s standards, since
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2845:. It has nothing to do with what we are discussing, it is just a bogus argument from authority on your part. Also, note that
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enumerate those sources here, and explain why you think they fail policy. A number of unsourced statements have been removed.
2821:(and I see no failures of the following list). Again, if you disagree, let's talk about the details, rather than these vague
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Furthermore, they can canvass all they want, this isn't a vote. I also question what relevance their conduct has to keeping
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from Knowledge (XXG). I'm advocating deletion of an article that currently does not conform to Knowledge (XXG)'s standards.
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1716:– As I noted on the article's talk page before this AfD, I have, unfortunately, been unable to find the requisite level of
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2120:. Why are you insisting that this article survives with a lot less? Are you sure it's not you who has double standards?
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Sorry, Snit333, but the point of this deletion discussion is that the (remarkably sparse) sources identified don't meet
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reason I nominated this was per what I said above. So I guess technically, I was the opposite of whatever canvassed is?
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of coverage, and no major awards, etc., won either, which is another relevant condition. Hence this article fails both
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Knowledge (XXG) community and the purpose of an AfD is to discuss if the article meets these policies and criteria. --
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into this -- without ever participating in the article's discussion, you propose an AfD of the 9-year old article on
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3475:!votes following the same pattern as before. As for myself; yes, it was indeed the ANI thread that brought me here.
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is
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2245:. I'd rather the new version of the article be evaluated on its own merits, rather than in the context of this
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There has been a rapid deluge of "delete" votes one after another. What's going on? Is someone canvassing?
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I did some more digging (and apologies for the watchlist spam, I just keep finding more). There's a blurb in
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The reworked version of the article has been posted. If there are still issues with the sources used, please
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There are lots of mentions on lots of sites that fall far short of being RS. The best I could find was this
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There's no obvious evidence of notability and the burden of proof lies on the article's proposers here. --
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3345:- No, no, and thrice no. Lacks reliable independent third-party coverage, and there is a clear attempt at
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I canvas you. Seriously though, this is not a vote. It is a discussion. Arguments are all that matters. --
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If other sites choose to have less stringent inclusion criteria, that's their choice. Good luck to them.
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above) ref by ref, cite by cite, and gather input on what people think is okay and what isn't, and why.
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I haven't seen any significant, independent coverage, either here, in the article, or at article talk.
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article. What they might do in the future or are doing now is immaterial to the fate of the article.
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3305:. Simply, we lack more than a tiny amount of citable evidence for the notability of this website. --
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I'm not sure what your point is, that isn't a standalone article...it's part of a character list.
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See my other comments about the normal manner for handling this type of thing in other articles.
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337:) found it necessary to "debunk" the site's satire, is the best evidence of notability a site --
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purple and I've talked about it on Anderson Cooper but it doesn't make my idea notable or true.
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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If there's any evidence of canvassing (in either direction) then by all means, post it here.
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reliable, independent coverage that Knowledge (XXG) requires will be found for this article.
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about this website, how are we supposed to write a reasonably detailer article on the topic?
1218:. I don't think this is enough in-depth independent coverage in RS to establish notability.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Citations of the site have, in fact, been offered on the article's discussion-page already.
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I looked at suggesting a redirect as a solution- but couldn't quite see where it would go-
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Ah, good, so there's no great need to keep the page here then? Thanks for letting us know.
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Knowledge (XXG) does not work like US politics. You cannot BUY your place on this site. --
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It actually is fairly common for websites to rally their readers to AfD conversations.
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secondary sources that you've found. My delete !vote was based purely on the GNG &
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in the sources. Unfortunately, that is all we have here- as they only give (at most)
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1619:. It's been blogged about by other bloggers, but no significant coverage online from
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The fact-checkers have "debunked" multiple "rumours" originating on the site -- that
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of these people in sources published by historians obviously is a good argument.)
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to
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My guess is attention was unintentionally brought to the AfD by the ANI thread.
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Striking !vote to give this a second consideration following discussion below.
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2762:. The top one is especially interesting - it is directly about the website. (
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expect a couple of SPAs to show up as TPC has put out a public call for help.
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http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2007/08/03/mega_dittos_from_the_motherland
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WP:CIVIL, please. I do not appreciate the patronizing comments. See below:
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articles about The People's Cube website, from Reliable Independent Sources
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So...a misunderstanding of notability as it applies to Knowledge (XXG) and
1498:, but otherwise says nothing about it. If readers want to know about the
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2544:. This is a standard of notability not used elsewhere on Knowledge (XXG).
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will probably rank higher in searches than the company's website. Read
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founder gets into legal trouble (with the site mentioned multiple times)
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trivial coverage, such as: a brief summary of the nature of the content
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attracted the attention of the world at large over a period of time
983:. Here's Michelle Malkin effusively praising Oleg and his website:
461:. Frankly, I don't care about the website one way or another. The
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things the web site and its author has done or is responsible for
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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and I'm not going to opine in any direction as a consequence.
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and the Snopes mentions don't amount to what we require under
67:
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This appears to have been exciting! -but, unnecessarilly so.
2760:
here's an entire page of linked interviews going back to 2014
980:
Well, here's a link to a conversation between Rush and Oleg:
3638:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
1195:. Sorry, this isn't notable under Knowledge (XXG) policies.
914:- The Site's satire has been reprinted in numerous places.
541:
https://twitter.com/ThePeoplesCube/status/815990773661528064
98:(agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments,
2916:"An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing."
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Ah well, nobody can say I wasn't 100% reasonable about it.
2012:
and/or the Wayback Machine and will upload it elsewhere. --
2009:
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meet said criteria. Just that at the moment it does not. --
3260:. Only a handle full of sources does not make it notable.
2008:, I have a feeling then someone will archive the entry to
1054:
handwaved for contrived and subjective-looking reasons...
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among Knowledge (XXG) contributors. Knowledge (XXG) has
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among Knowledge (XXG) contributors. Knowledge (XXG) has
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per Gamaliel. Oh god, I remember Brian Peppers, too. --
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website, hence it did nothing to establish notablity.
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Noting that the applicable notability standard here is
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Substantial Coverage in Reliable, Independent Sources
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Substantial Coverage in Reliable, Independent Sources
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The Rush Limbaugh and Michelle Malkin sites are not
418:, an attempt for "non-controversial" PROD of it (by
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the subject of multiple non-trivial published works
3004:Canvassing is certainly annoying. I came here from
1988:"I've heard of it" seems to be exactly the kind of
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2768:the world at large giving attention to the subject
2241:, and because the canvassing initiated by TPC has
2386:Hm.. Hadn't thought of that. Alright, see below.
1640:. Same reason as Brian Peppers and Filthy Frank.
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
3786:). No further edits should be made to this page.
2110:Double standards? The article you've linked has
2436:Knowledge (XXG)'s General Notability Guidelines
986:. Here's an interview he did with Rebel media:
626:'s, even if it never had a dead-tree edition.
3658:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
1443:The "article" about this AfD is a posting on
512:list of Websites-related deletion discussions
118:Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected
8:
3380:a brief summary of the nature of the content
2602:in your future dealings with other editors.
510:Note: This debate has been included in the
410:Personally, please, do not deny having been
1025:. And please stop accusing me of trying to
3632:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
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1879:
1807:
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92:regarding the encyclopedia's content, and
3495:Yes, I also came to this AfD via ANI. --
2854:They cannot be based on primary sources.
1990:argument to avoid in deletion discussions
1905:: An editor has expressed a concern that
881:coverage. Worth noting that this article
459:fight the leftist Knowledge (XXG) editors
3652:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
112:on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.
1154:doesn't mean something is not notable.
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2616:Allow me to put it another way. It is
2496:- I can't make it any clearer to you.
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922:2605:6000:101B:C048:223:32FF:FE9F:B256
791:Retracted upon further consideration.
333:That various "fact checkers" (such as
1150:does not mean notable and conversely
1016:I don't think there was a doubt that
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
3738:, which has even less references. --
1731:high-quality mainstream publications
1728:. Are there examples of coverage in
3349:here to keep this article afloat.--
2950:other editors to agree with them.
1490:The topic has not, as required by "
1255:per "Brian Peppers" bruhaha. Also,
2754:that I think is very interesting:
2442:Sources are all blogs or, at best
1726:anyone can create and maintain one
24:
2988:first to point out the canvassing
2214:If you think you've found enough
1502:, they can go to their website.
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3370:is perfecly clear: It has to be
2116:including reliable sources like
572:Knowledge (XXG):Notability (web)
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3131:- not seeing the significant,
2540:does not establish notability
2527:: Snopes, About (14,15) three
2504:) 01:26, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
1:
3755:Per Mjolnirpants and others.
3648:on the part of others and to
108:on the part of others and to
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2086:Bulbasaur evolutionary line
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1552:23:51, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
1530:19:50, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
1512:19:40, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
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1414:19:53, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
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862:22:16, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
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803:22:47, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
782:21:29, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
746:17:54, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
719:21:25, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
705:21:17, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
687:21:14, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
658:17:50, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
640:21:32, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
613:21:07, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
598:20:41, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
584:20:27, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
562:20:19, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
524:20:00, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
496:19:11, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
453:canvassing for editors and
436:20:39, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
354:20:00, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
326:19:49, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
57:18:57, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
3803:
3580:List of fake news websites
2843:"Unsupported attributions"
2808:Indeed. But as mentioned,
2882:per published site policy
2810:they establish notability
2542:of the site or its author
3775:Please do not modify it.
2825:-sounding generalities.
32:Please do not modify it.
3690:; accounts blocked for
3660:single-purpose accounts
3630:policies and guidelines
2626:Deception is bad faith.
2554:. No interpretation or
2419:Not enough coverage in
2332:What sources are okay?
455:Knowledge (XXG) experts
150:; accounts blocked for
120:single-purpose accounts
90:policies and guidelines
3398:particularly. Cheers,
1354:Special:Diff/758140351
766:or articles where the
3486:Tell me all about it.
3333:Tell me all about it.
2284:I tend to agree with
1938:few or no other edits
1836:few or no other edits
1687:few or no other edits
341:web-site -- can have.
3736:Communists for Kerry
3135:secondary coverage.
3077:Dewey Defeats Truman
3055:notability guideline
1940:outside this topic.
1921:to this discussion.
1838:outside this topic.
1689:outside this topic.
1540:"News organizations"
1146:or a high number of
854:пан Бостон-Київський
632:пан Бостон-Київський
590:пан Бостон-Київський
428:пан Бостон-Київський
346:пан Бостон-Київський
61:
3642:by counting votes.
3621:not a majority vote
3170:NorthBySouthBaranof
2758:With that in mind,
2090:WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS
1866:A Certain White Cat
1475:A Certain White Cat
1433:A Certain White Cat
1394:A Certain White Cat
1325:WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS
820:WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS
693:WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS
516:AntiCompositeNumber
493:A Certain White Cat
426:) is turned down...
102:by counting votes.
81:not a majority vote
3757:Gråbergs Gråa Sång
3079:is famous for its
2334:Here is the policy
2299:WP:Deletion review
2290:Anonymous555444666
1806:this anachronism
1445:The People's Cube.
848:feels entitled to
695:. Alright then. --
3723:
3722:
3719:
3646:assume good faith
3597:
3487:
3334:
3020:The People's Cube
2911:The People's Cube
2876:
2860:comment added by
2680:
2600:assume good faith
2518:
2243:poisoned the well
1941:
1922:
1900:
1884:comment added by
1868:
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1824:
1812:comment added by
1788:- No evidence of
1779:
1690:
1574:The People's Cube
1477:
1435:
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932:
920:comment added by
526:
495:
451:The People's Cube
188:The People's Cube
183:
182:
179:
106:assume good faith
63:The People's Cube
54:Black Kite (talk)
3794:
3777:
3732:as it stands now
3717:
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3624:, but instead a
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3148:indecipherable.
3115:Ruthfulbarbarity
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2562:Passing mentions
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1522:Ruthfulbarbarity
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1123:Ruthfulbarbarity
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1027:delete a website
1021:not accepted as
1012:
1009:Ruthfulbarbarity
994:Ruthfulbarbarity
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900:
764:260k google hits
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3784:deletion review
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3650:sign your posts
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3183:delete and salt
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3089:Unscintillating
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2889:
2886:
2862:The Four Deuces
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2548:Primary sources
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1718:reliable source
1638:Delete and salt
1468:The Four Deuces
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850:his own facts
847:
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248:Find sources:
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27:
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19:
3774:
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3713:
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3692:sockpuppetry
3685:
3674:; suspected
3669:
3655:
3643:
3639:
3633:
3625:
3619:
3586:
3566:
3531:
3530:and (maybe)
3527:
3480:MjolnirPants
3479:
3451:
3430:
3413:
3401:
3363:
3342:
3327:MjolnirPants
3326:
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3101:
3073:
3059:Pete Forsyth
3046:
3019:
3006:their appeal
2992:Pete Forsyth
2966:
2910:
2909:At present,
2908:
2881:
2856:— Preceding
2809:
2752:WP:INTERVIEW
2747:
2710:Pete Forsyth
2669:
2645:stop reading
2644:
2621:
2618:not possible
2617:
2561:
2547:
2541:
2537:
2533:
2528:
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2443:
2421:independent,
2416:
2303:Pete Forsyth
2215:
2190:
2117:
2111:
2080:
2005:
1972:LaMèreVeille
1967:
1902:
1880:— Preceding
1808:— Preceding
1789:
1785:
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1764:
1713:
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1637:
1612:
1573:
1516:
1499:
1495:
1492:"Notability"
1487:
1444:
1400:
1379:
1376:this article
1371:
1359:Pete Forsyth
1352:
1348:
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1272:
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1220:
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1197:TonyBallioni
1184:
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1026:
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977:
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935:
916:— Preceding
911:
878:
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849:
824:
811:
795:
793:
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772:
759:
758:
674:
627:
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549:
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416:the same day
415:
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152:sockpuppetry
145:
134:; suspected
129:
115:
103:
99:
93:
85:
79:
49:
47:
31:
28:
3563:, perhaps?
3555:John Carter
3536:John Carter
3107:pointed out
2823:WP:WEASELey
2764:direct link
2687:discussion.
2622:immediately
2247:bandwagoned
1936:) has made
1917:) has been
1834:) has made
1685:) has made
1642:KATMAKROFAN
1076:as a policy
883:was started
422:Hongkai2000
273:free images
3740:Hammersoft
3626:discussion
3567:O Fortuna!
3513:Exemplo347
3458:Chrissymad
3402:O Fortuna!
3374:- and not
3368:WP:WEBCRIT
3347:canvassing
3229:Exemplo347
3137:Neutrality
3081:inaccuracy
2816:, to wit,
2788:Glenn Beck
2703:Thank you
2604:Exemplo347
2552:WP:PRIMARY
2525:Notability
2508:Exemplo347
2498:Exemplo347
2374:Exemplo347
2338:Exemplo347
2286:Exemplo347
2268:Exemplo347
2225:Exemplo347
2155:Chrissymad
2122:Exemplo347
2060:Exemplo347
2032:Exemplo347
2010:archive.is
1994:Neutrality
1951:Exemplo347
1849:Exemplo347
1793:Exemplo347
1625:Wikishovel
1380:fight back
1374:I noticed
1158:Chrissymad
1144:Popularity
1082:Chrissymad
1033:Chrissymad
963:Chrissymad
469:Chrissymad
389:Chrissymad
370:Chrissymad
313:Chrissymad
86:discussion
3780:talk page
3682:canvassed
3676:canvassed
3635:consensus
3578:Probably
3497:The Anome
3466:¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3418:The Anome
3286:ValarianB
3264:QuackGuru
3051:Karunamon
2705:Karunamon
2295:Karunamon
2163:¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1919:canvassed
1659:WP:NEXIST
1215:and this
1166:¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1152:obscurity
1090:¯\_(ツ)_/¯
1041:¯\_(ツ)_/¯
971:¯\_(ツ)_/¯
738:Nil Einne
650:Nil Einne
624:The Onion
477:¯\_(ツ)_/¯
412:canvassed
406:The Onion
378:¯\_(ツ)_/¯
321:¯\_(ツ)_/¯
142:canvassed
136:canvassed
95:consensus
37:talk page
3782:or in a
3714:username
3708:{{subst:
3702:username
3696:{{subst:
3686:username
3680:{{subst:
3670:username
3664:{{subst:
3384:WP:DEPTH
3133:in-depth
2975:arunamon
2939:arunamon
2890:arunamon
2870:contribs
2858:unsigned
2831:arunamon
2776:arunamon
2693:arunamon
2633:arunamon
2575:arunamon
2556:WP:SYNTH
2473:arunamon
2392:arunamon
2357:arunamon
2322:arunamon
2256:arunamon
2237:Because
2200:arunamon
1934:contribs
1915:contribs
1894:contribs
1882:unsigned
1810:unsigned
1683:contribs
1615:- fails
1388:notable?
1296:Dimadick
1260:Rklawton
1235:Gamaliel
1104:arunamon
1059:arunamon
918:unsigned
899:gobonobo
879:in-depth
873:. Fails
796:arunamon
775:arunamon
457:to help
402:articles
400:multiple
232:View log
174:username
168:{{subst:
162:username
156:{{subst:
146:username
140:{{subst:
130:username
124:{{subst:
39:or in a
3678:users:
3452:comment
3431:Comment
3396:WP:NWEB
3351:WaltCip
3220:Comment
3151:Timothy
3102:Comment
2748:Comment
2489:Sources
2463:Comment
2440:WP:NWEB
2432:sustian
2239:WP:SNOW
2191:Comment
2081:comment
1722:WP:NWEB
1675:Snit333
1662:Snit333
1538:. See
1517:Comment
1401:Comment
1372:Comment
1349:Comment
1291:comment
1273:comment
1189:WP:NWEB
1136:comment
1118:comment
1097:comment
1071:comment
1048:comment
1014:comment
978:comment
956:comment
896:sites.
887:website
875:WP:NWEB
816:WP:NWEB
279:WP refs
267:scholar
205:protect
200:history
138:users:
3753:Delete
3727:Delete
3528:Delete
3414:Delete
3392:WP:GNG
3364:Delete
3343:Delete
3320:Delete
3303:Risker
3299:Delete
3281:Delete
3258:Delete
3246:Calton
3242:Delete
3200:Delete
3187:Jytdog
3166:Delete
3154:Joseph
3129:Delete
3074:Delete
2649:Calton
2529:direct
2428:verify
2417:Delete
2221:WP:WEB
2046:Sd-100
2014:Sd-100
1786:Delete
1765:Delete
1714:Delete
1699:Risker
1657:- see
1617:WP:WEB
1613:Delete
1488:Delete
1310:Drmies
1253:Delete
1230:Delete
1210:Delete
1193:WP:GNG
1187:fails
1185:Delete
1023:WP:IRS
891:social
871:Delete
846:Majora
829:Majora
812:Delete
697:Majora
605:Risker
576:Risker
554:Risker
550:Delete
395:Snopes
335:Snopes
251:Google
209:delete
50:delete
3656:Note:
3594:Help!
3382:. No
3307:Hoary
3205:Seren
3145:Close
2677:Help!
2370:WP:G4
2293:fit,
1776:Help!
1695:WP:RS
1621:WP:RS
894:media
825:never
619:alone
486:PanBK
444:PanBK
362:PanBK
294:JSTOR
255:books
239:Stats
226:views
218:watch
214:links
116:Note:
16:<
3761:talk
3744:talk
3561:here
3540:talk
3532:salt
3517:talk
3501:talk
3439:talk
3435:GBRV
3422:talk
3355:talk
3311:talk
3301:per
3290:talk
3271:talk
3250:Talk
3233:talk
3211:Dept
3191:talk
3174:talk
3157:Wood
3119:talk
3093:talk
3063:talk
3047:Keep
3028:talk
3010:Nemo
2996:talk
2967:this
2956:talk
2924:talk
2866:talk
2800:talk
2790:and
2729:talk
2714:talk
2653:Talk
2647:. --
2608:talk
2512:talk
2502:talk
2438:and
2378:talk
2342:talk
2307:talk
2272:talk
2229:talk
2176:talk
2172:GBRV
2141:talk
2137:GBRV
2126:talk
2098:talk
2094:GBRV
2064:talk
2050:talk
2036:talk
2018:talk
2006:Keep
1976:talk
1968:Keep
1955:talk
1930:talk
1911:talk
1903:Note
1890:talk
1853:talk
1832:talk
1818:talk
1797:talk
1754:talk
1740:talk
1703:talk
1679:talk
1666:talk
1655:Keep
1646:talk
1629:talk
1596:talk
1592:GBRV
1582:talk
1563:talk
1559:GBRV
1548:talk
1526:talk
1508:talk
1500:Cube
1496:Cube
1453:talk
1410:talk
1363:talk
1334:talk
1330:GBRV
1314:talk
1300:talk
1282:talk
1278:GBRV
1264:talk
1242:talk
1201:talk
1127:talk
998:talk
945:talk
936:Keep
926:talk
912:Keep
889:and
858:talk
852:...
833:talk
760:Keep
742:talk
715:talk
711:GBRV
701:talk
683:talk
679:GBRV
675:Keep
654:talk
636:talk
628:Keep
609:talk
594:talk
580:talk
558:talk
463:only
432:talk
397:has
350:talk
287:FENS
261:news
222:logs
196:talk
192:edit
3710:csp
3706:or
3698:csm
3666:spa
3640:not
3588:Guy
3585:).
3462:❯❯❯
3386:or
3057:. -
3024:TFD
2952:TFD
2920:TFD
2819:met
2796:TFD
2725:Mz7
2671:Guy
2534:NOT
2430:or
2426:to
2301:. -
2159:❯❯❯
2118:IGN
1770:Guy
1750:Mz7
1736:Mz7
1697:.
1578:TFD
1544:TFD
1504:TFD
1449:TFD
1162:❯❯❯
1086:❯❯❯
1052:all
1037:❯❯❯
1018:any
967:❯❯❯
473:❯❯❯
374:❯❯❯
339:any
317:❯❯❯
301:TWL
230:– (
170:csp
166:or
158:csm
126:spa
100:not
3763:)
3746:)
3716:}}
3704:}}
3694::
3688:}}
3672:}}
3662::
3542:)
3519:)
3503:)
3441:)
3424:)
3357:)
3313:)
3292:)
3274:)
3248:|
3235:)
3193:)
3176:)
3121:)
3095:)
3065:)
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2926:)
2884:.
2872:)
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2770:.
2731:)
2716:)
2651:|
2610:)
2514:)
2452:bh
2446:.
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2372:.
2344:)
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2274:)
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2178:)
2143:)
2128:)
2100:)
2066:)
2052:)
2038:)
2020:)
1978:)
1957:)
1932:•
1924:—
1913:•
1896:)
1892:•
1855:)
1826:—
1820:)
1799:)
1756:)
1742:)
1734:?
1705:)
1681:•
1673:—
1668:)
1648:)
1631:)
1623:.
1598:)
1584:)
1565:)
1550:)
1528:)
1510:)
1455:)
1412:)
1391:--
1365:)
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176:}}
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154::
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122::
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3718:.
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3582:(
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172:|
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