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:Articles for deletion/The War Z - Knowledge

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564:. I've found multiple sources that talk about the game and some reviews of the beta runs of the game, so the game looks to be notable enough to keep. Now all that aside, arguing isn't going to get us anywhere. The original article format was awful and given the amount of gaming websites out there that are known for posting user reviews that don't count towards notability, it's easy to see how it'd be confusing to sort through things if you're not as familiar with the gaming sites. In any given AfD topic, there are a lot of sites that come up under GNews or other search engines that aren't usable as RS, so it's not always as easy as googling. I don't really see where this nomination was really all that bad, honestly. It resulted in the article getting some much needed love and proper sourcing, so this AfD had some merit because it brought it to the attention of various users that could edit. Maybe GenQuest could've asked around, but that's sort of a moot point and other than 839:- There seems to be several various sources which support information in the article, the article is also in regards to a video game which hasn't been released, however, it is entering the alpha testing phase. I'm sure at the end of the alpha testing phase there will be more articles with more information regarding the topic. The article has been up for ten days. Five of those days have had the deletion discussion occurring. As for sources, the game publisher would be one source, IGN and PCGamer are independant, reliable sources; and The Escapist, Joystiq, and Destructoid, while not preferred source material, are able to be used. 661:, which shows that most of the sources used in the article are fine, while others are okay in some situations. Whether or not the game is released is not a criterion for notability. Many many games get coverage before they are released, just as films and other forms of media entertainment get coverage prior to being available for direct consumption. The standard for notability is whether it receives significant coverage in reliable secondary sources, which it does. — 543:. Alluding to anyone having a personal slight against someone or something really isn't the way to go about this. We should always assume good faith when it comes to things of this nature unless someone does something so above and beyond the reasonable rationale of good faith that it's obvious. I believe that GenQuest was operating in good faith. A little hasty, but in good faith. Making swipes isn't any way to conduct ourselves. 820:. I think there's enough there with the non-debatable reliable sources, let alone the ones that are somewhat borderline. (From my experience at AFD, Joystiq is usually one of those sources that are considered "useable if that's all there is, but something to avoid or replace if/when other sources are available. 539:
mentioned and much of the article was taken from various press releases. As far as download links go, the nominator is probably referring to the website link at the bottom. In any case, best way to argue for an article being kept is to remain calm, source the article accordingly, and argue based on points from
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The article does not contain nay direct links to downlaod the game, only to the website itself, which is perfectly in reason It most certainly Notable as it has been on several high caliber websites Additionally there there is no mention of pricing on the page what so ever, other than one payment is
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that was initially on Knowledge should not have been there for 5 minutes, let alone several days. The references added since my nomination are a good start, however, I have to ask (since, again, I am not a gamer and don't research these type of articles regularly), how many of the websites referenced
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pointing out other options before nominating for deletion, we really have nothing to talk about other than potential ways to improve the article. But like I said, this AfD has ultimately been beneficial for the article and as such, accomplished something positive, so there's no reason for berating
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If you are not a gamer then you should apply your beauracratic skills elsewhere. The number of results in a Google Search for a game that has just released would have obviously been low since the bot probably hadn't indexed the results. It is people like you that really piss me off. You people are
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I moved this from the talk page of this AfD. That being said, nominating something for AfD does not mean that someone has anything against the game. Just that they noticed it didn't meet GNG as it was written and nominated it. Also, before I edited the article extensively, there was a price point
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as to what the purpose of an encyclopedia is. It is certainly NOT to create notability, nor to sell video games. It's about building a better Knowledge. Your rant and apparent "philosophy" does neither. Do us all a favor and look up the words "respect" and "consensus" in the dictionary, ~Regards
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before making the nomination. As I explained on the talk page, this is not the kind of article I would normally edit. In the thirty pages of my Google search, I found less than 7 mentions of the article's subject other than first-party webpages —hardly notable. The blatant sales pamphlet
763:, and several others are not. I'm not looking to split hairs. The point is that we're really stretching for sources to prove this game a notable entity worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia. If you are already convinced otherwise, there's nothing more to say here. 632:. This AfD is about whether or not an idea is notable for an encyclopedia article. Ask yourself what it does to show its notability. I pass no personal judgment on this game and its moment quite possibly might come in the future, but right now it is not notable. 788:
For the record, Joystiq and Destructoid are also listed as potentially valid (though with caveats). The sources currently listed in the article demonstrate notability. The GNG makes no distinction between very notable and only moderately notable.
304:—Echoing the above sentiment, Tokyogirl79's alterations to the article effectively resolve the criticisms regarding the notability of the subject, and promotional quality of the original content, signifying that deletion is unreasonable. 343:(containing over-site, editorial review, etc.) — not just author opinions or fan sites? Or does that even matter in game articles? I leave it up to other editors out there who care about such articles to decide. I'm out... 508:
necessary and no monthly fee's apply, which perfectly whithin reason as this may not otherwise be clear as it is a MMORPG and these often differ in their payment systems, so as such it would be of interest to the reader.
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unconstructive bureaucrats who think that pedantically following every rule in the book will make this place better, and are meddling in a field you have no knowledge of. I motion for a
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and further motion that this bureaucrat tender his resignation with immediate effect or at the very least, refrain from trying to "improve" gaming-related articles.
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regarding the character of his argument, the warning applies equally to anyone disparaging another editor as ignorant, and thereby disrupting this discussion.
214: 697: 685: 277:, almost a speedy keep. I can see that the article was in pretty bad shape when the AfD was created, but I suspect the nominator didn't follow 689: 126: 511:
All of this leads me to wonder whether you read the article as all, but rather just have a personal dislike for the game itself
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are all great in terms of editorial oversight and quality control. Not certain on all the rest, but I'm pretty sure
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sourcing. VG encyclopedia articles are for games that contribute to critical discourse about VG—Knowledge is
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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
860: 794: 709: 629: 570: 544: 326: 285:'s excellent work. Promotional problems can be (and were) handled through normal editing. — 282: 278: 258: 593: 855:
per Tokyogirl79's sourcing. Torchiest's suggestion regarding WP:BEFORE is a sound one. -
614:. Likewise Google hits ≠ notability (especially when they overlap with the better-known 592:
is just not established. Vast majority of the sources are not classified as reliable by
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Sorry Czar, but you are straightforwardly mistaken in your interpretation of what the
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considers to constitute a reliable source, hence whether the article satisfies the
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I'm aware and meant RS, not RL. It was a slip on my part—thanks, fixed. A few (
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Non-Notable and is a PR piece; including pricing and download links.
596:(on a "game news" website ≠ corroboration). I'll say this again: 872:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
281:, as the article now has almost a dozen solid sources thanks to 752: 701: 598: 374: 755:) are listed as valid (though the last with a caveat), but 251: 109: 105: 101: 173: 447:
I will forgive your personal attack as the result of
325:, I am the nominator, and I certainly did process 43:). No further edits should be made to this page. 886:). No further edits should be made to this page. 215:list of video game-related deletion discussions 712:companies that incorporate the same database. 187: 8: 213:Note: This debate has been included in the 357:I can answer your question about sources. 428:arguments during the discussion. Thanks, 243: 7: 468:Although I specifically cautioned 249: 24: 237: 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 1: 231: 865:14:08, 23 October 2012 (UTC) 848:20:50, 22 October 2012 (UTC) 832:00:05, 21 October 2012 (UTC) 799:14:08, 23 October 2012 (UTC) 784:23:55, 19 October 2012 (UTC) 726:23:08, 19 October 2012 (UTC) 700:, which explicitly includes 673:22:34, 19 October 2012 (UTC) 653:22:20, 19 October 2012 (UTC) 579:07:09, 19 October 2012 (UTC) 553:14:59, 18 October 2012 (UTC) 486:00:43, 19 October 2012 (UTC) 464:00:18, 19 October 2012 (UTC) 442:00:10, 19 October 2012 (UTC) 420:23:04, 18 October 2012 (UTC) 393:15:31, 18 October 2012 (UTC) 353:15:12, 18 October 2012 (UTC) 318:14:57, 18 October 2012 (UTC) 297:13:39, 18 October 2012 (UTC) 267:05:37, 18 October 2012 (UTC) 225: 207:18:49, 17 October 2012 (UTC) 62:17:31, 24 October 2012 (UTC) 690:general notability criteria 219: 903: 657:You should take a look at 612:the sources are not solid 875:Please do not modify it. 412:User:DiscipleOfKnowledge 32:Please do not modify it. 336:isn't even released yet 816:- Enough coverage in 708:, both of which are 588:. I read the above. 424:Please refrain from 692:. Whereas you cite 470:DiscipleOfKnowledge 334:about a game that 48:The result was 683: 620:). Notability is 532: 518:comment added by 269: 894: 877: 846: 845: 829: 824: 818:reliable sources 782: 780: 775: 770: 724: 722: 717: 710:News Corporation 677: 651: 649: 644: 639: 531: 512: 484: 482: 477: 450:simple ignorance 440: 438: 433: 316: 314: 309: 256: 255: 254: 247: 241: 235: 229: 223: 212: 192: 191: 177: 129: 117: 99: 34: 902: 901: 897: 896: 895: 893: 892: 891: 890: 884:deletion review 873: 841: 840: 827: 822: 778: 773: 766: 764: 720: 716:Mephistophelian 715: 713: 671: 647: 642: 635: 633: 630:not a directory 513: 480: 476:Mephistophelian 475: 473: 436: 432:Mephistophelian 431: 429: 391: 312: 308:Mephistophelian 307: 305: 295: 250: 218: 134: 125: 90: 74: 71: 41:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 900: 898: 889: 888: 868: 867: 850: 834: 810: 809: 808: 807: 806: 805: 804: 803: 802: 801: 734: 733: 732: 731: 730: 729: 667: 582: 581: 558: 557: 556: 555: 505: 504: 500: 499: 498: 497: 496: 495: 494: 493: 492: 491: 490: 489: 398: 397: 396: 395: 387: 320: 299: 291: 271: 270: 195: 194: 131: 70: 65: 46: 45: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 899: 887: 885: 881: 876: 870: 869: 866: 862: 858: 854: 851: 849: 844: 838: 835: 833: 830: 825: 819: 815: 812: 811: 800: 796: 792: 787: 786: 785: 781: 776: 771: 769: 762: 758: 754: 750: 746: 742: 741: 740: 739: 738: 737: 736: 735: 727: 723: 718: 711: 707: 703: 699: 695: 691: 687: 681: 680:edit conflict 676: 675: 674: 670: 666: 665: 660: 656: 655: 654: 650: 645: 640: 638: 631: 627: 623: 619: 618: 613: 609: 605: 602: 600: 595: 591: 587: 584: 583: 580: 576: 572: 567: 563: 560: 559: 554: 550: 546: 542: 537: 536: 535: 534: 533: 529: 525: 521: 517: 509: 502: 501: 487: 483: 478: 471: 467: 466: 465: 461: 457: 452: 451: 446: 445: 443: 439: 434: 427: 423: 422: 421: 417: 413: 409: 404: 403: 402: 401: 400: 399: 394: 390: 386: 385: 380: 376: 372: 371: 366: 362: 361: 356: 355: 354: 350: 346: 342: 337: 333: 328: 324: 321: 319: 315: 310: 303: 300: 298: 294: 290: 289: 284: 280: 276: 273: 272: 268: 264: 260: 253: 246: 240: 234: 228: 222: 216: 211: 210: 209: 208: 204: 200: 190: 186: 183: 180: 176: 172: 168: 165: 162: 159: 156: 153: 150: 147: 144: 140: 137: 136:Find sources: 132: 128: 124: 121: 115: 111: 107: 103: 98: 94: 89: 85: 81: 77: 73: 72: 69: 66: 64: 63: 59: 55: 51: 44: 42: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 874: 871: 852: 836: 823:Sergecross73 813: 767: 662: 636: 615: 611: 597: 585: 565: 561: 514:— Preceding 510: 506: 449: 448: 425: 407: 382: 368: 360:The Escapist 358: 335: 322: 301: 286: 274: 196: 184: 178: 170: 163: 157: 151: 145: 135: 122: 54:SarahStierch 49: 47: 31: 28: 761:Destructoid 686:WikiProject 622:independent 617:World War Z 608:Destructoid 571:Tokyogirl79 545:Tokyogirl79 379:Destructoid 283:Tokyogirl79 259:Tokyogirl79 161:free images 843:User:Aneah 590:Notability 426:ad hominem 381:is good. — 880:talk page 721:(contact) 664:Torchiest 659:this list 520:Deltorant 481:(contact) 437:(contact) 384:Torchiest 327:WP:BEFORE 313:(contact) 288:Torchiest 279:WP:BEFORE 76:The War Z 68:The War Z 37:talk page 882:or in a 749:PC Gamer 745:PC World 698:WP:VG/RS 694:WP:VG/RL 626:reliable 594:WP:VG/RS 566:politely 528:contribs 516:unsigned 456:GenQuest 370:PC Gamer 345:GenQuest 341:reliable 199:GenQuest 120:View log 39:or in a 757:Joystiq 706:GameSpy 604:Joystiq 569:anyone. 365:Joystiq 323:Neutral 167:WP refs 155:scholar 93:protect 88:history 857:Thibbs 828:msg me 791:Thibbs 759:(x3), 586:Delete 541:WP:GNG 373:, and 139:Google 97:delete 669:edits 389:edits 332:clone 293:edits 182:JSTOR 143:books 127:Stats 114:views 106:watch 102:links 16:< 861:talk 853:Keep 837:Keep 814:Keep 795:talk 768:czar 704:and 637:czar 575:talk 562:Keep 549:talk 524:talk 460:talk 416:talk 408:keep 349:talk 339:are 302:Keep 275:Keep 263:talk 252:Talk 203:talk 175:FENS 149:news 110:logs 84:talk 80:edit 58:talk 50:keep 753:IGN 702:IGN 599:IGN 418:) 375:IGN 217:. ( 189:TWL 118:– ( 863:) 797:) 751:, 747:, 624:, 610:, 606:, 577:) 551:) 530:) 526:• 462:) 444:. 367:, 363:, 351:) 265:) 257:) 245:RS 205:) 169:) 112:| 108:| 104:| 100:| 95:| 91:| 86:| 82:| 60:) 52:. 859:( 793:( 789:- 779:· 774:· 728:. 682:) 678:( 648:· 643:· 601:, 573:( 547:( 522:( 488:. 458:( 414:( 347:( 261:( 248:· 242:· 239:S 236:· 233:B 230:· 227:N 224:· 221:G 201:( 193:) 185:· 179:· 171:· 164:· 158:· 152:· 146:· 141:( 133:( 130:) 123:· 116:) 78:( 56:(

Index

Knowledge:Articles for deletion
talk page
deletion review
SarahStierch
talk
17:31, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
The War Z
The War Z
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
Stats
Google
books
news
scholar
free images
WP refs
FENS
JSTOR
TWL
GenQuest
talk

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