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:Articles for deletion/The three wise monkeys in popular culture - Knowledge

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410:. The latter is a scholarly article that discusses them "in the West and their truly astonishing impact on our popular culture." So, here we have a professionally published article that directly discusses their "impact on our popular culture." Please note that it took me less than a minute to find these kinds of sources on dogpile, which further increases my agreement with the essay 325:. OK, it's clearly going to go, on grounds of triviality. However, I don't understand the nominator's accusation of "unsourced", nor other commentators' suggestions about OR. The only conclusion one can draw from the list is that the image & proverb are notable & widespread in popular culture; hardly a "novel narrative or historical interpretation", so how does that breach 560:
says that films etc are primary sources, and that facts (but not interpretations) from primary sources can be stated in Knowledge. Yes, you could verify it by watching. I suppose Knowledge might add a requirement for references to state the h:mm:ss, similar to quoting page numbers in books, but even
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this can safely be deleted without anyone missing it. Many a family snapshot has been taken of three people imitating the three monkeys, with everyone thinking it's very original and clever. Ultimately, it's not any more interesting than three people imitating "The Spirit of '76", that painting of
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Normally, I find myself in agreement with you; in this case, however, the whole concept of this is visual recreations of the 3 monkeys, and I think it's only a step above the snapshot. The Spirit of '76 might be a bad analogy... this seems more akin to holding two fingers behind someone's head.
196:(as creator) - nomination appears poorly considered. In what way is the article "cluttered"? it seems neatly structured to me. As for "unsourced", the media mentioned in the list are sufficiently accessible sources. "Trivial", yes; but the point of creating the article was to stop the article 629:
since the family snapshots you mention aren't of even minimal importance , then listing them in an article like this is unjustified. Since the cultural referents here are in material that is sufficiently important for an article, then the relationships are worth including. That's what makes the
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I'm not saying the article should stay, but I have read those and I don't think it fails any of them. Please demonstrate HOW the article breaches those policies & guidelines. If you mean the sub-page idea would fail them, how does it fail the first three? I don't mind rigorous editing, or
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at least one source from a scholarly journal that asserts that discusses the three wise monkeys' "truly astonishing impact on our popular culture," something I also posted a few posts above yours. I found that reference relatively easily and so I am sure more probably exist. The fact that a
223:- that much is obvious, but the question is whether a subject like this deserves to exist on its own merits. "Stopping article x being overwhelmed by trivia" is not a good reason to create a new article, the proper solution IMO is simply to trim the amount of trivia so that it 402:. The article opens in a good way by having a nice text paragraph. The subsequent list format helps show the extent of this topic's influence in popular culture and the two images help keep the article interesting. References, as always could help. Consider 758:
The trivia will be condensed or removed. Additional references have been added since the article was nominated for deletion, and these contain material of encyclopedic worth which has yet to be incorporated in the article.
532:; using these does not breach WP:OR, which requires simply that the editor make only descriptive claims, not analytical ones. The article completely fulfils this policy - indeed, that seems to be the source of complaint! 134:- I've seen some in pop culture articles which should be kept. Then I've seen ones like this. The article is useless - you may as well create a list of cultural depictions of "D'oh". Unsourced and has OR issues. Delete. 547:: So you're saying that, in order to verify that somebody's claim that such and such happens in a movie, it's acceptable to require the reader to go watch the movie? Please show me where this is acceptable sourcing. 87: 82: 91: 561:
the latter is not a requirement at present. So, yes it's acceptable to give no more specific source than the film name. Thus, these claimed facts are verifiable within Knowledge policy. -
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At least that's giving credit where credit's due! Actually, the mention of Faye Wong was only added recently, but I created the article months ago as part of the long-proposed merger of
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may be enough to delete it, although the article includes evidence that notable artists have used the motif/proverb. Nominator has declined to justify his other allegations that it is
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points out, "a couple of notable examples might be merged into the main article", and it's up to the editors of that page to decide which ones might belong.
685: 528:? No. I know that OR is a subtle policy to understand properly, but please quote me which statement in that policy supports your assertion. Films etc are 556:
You even said books, my friend! As for films: it is not a requirement of Knowledge policies to quote films only from secondary sources e.g. film reviews.
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scholarly journal mentions their direct impact in popular culture additional indicates that any claims about original research or erroneous. Best, --
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OK, noted. At the time there were various similar pages within Knowledge so it seemed to be acceptable & encyclopedic to create it. Let it go.
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While I see no harm in pop culture articles, this is just an unprosed, unsourced, list that consists of only trivia, which is a violation of
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doing the "hear no evil..." thing - the above user (who created the page) is named after this Chinese musician and is a big fan, see userpage
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trivia-pile. A couple of notable examples might be merged into the main article, but there's not much here that isn't completely trivial.
508: 416: 78: 480:. References to movies, TV series, books, video games, etc., require that the viewer watch or play them, which is a violation of 372: 411: 70: 62: 17: 403: 407: 52:
article, which is an unsourced list without sufficient context, and which overwhelming consensus clearly seeks to discard.
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non-sourced, a grab-bag for every trivial mention. Delete this before God destroys 40 days and nights of rain again.
48:. One commenter contributed a few scholarly references to this discussion. Those might justify an article, but not 855: 763: 745: 603: 565: 536: 460: 333: 289: 240: 204: 873: 36: 872:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
488:. And why would we want a subpage of a Talk page for an article which fails so many policies and guidelines? 35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a
484:, without reliable sources to prove that the things actually exist as the article says they exist, it fails 852: 760: 742: 600: 562: 533: 457: 330: 286: 237: 201: 502: 775: 380: 314: 269: 721: 808: 548: 489: 447: 278: 218: 197: 812: 724: 387: 29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
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deletions, but I do get fed up of lazy, empty assertions that articles fail this or that. -
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i think that we should keep this article because it shows how well known that the
524:: References to books requires the reader to read them, so is that a violation of 108: 630:
material encyclopedic--it is the relationship of one important thing to another.
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again, it depends on whether notable artists turn out to have used the work.
741:. Please read the above, and present arguments rather than mere assertions. 262: 266: 692: 662: 632: 173: 595:
It is not original research in the sense banned by Knowledge policy
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for the retention of this sort of material that needs editing, as
430:, do not make a subpage of the Talk page, that's bizarre. Fails 866:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
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as most of it is original research, plus the rest is trivia
285:. Oh OK, you got me, I had in mind to add it eventually. - 217:
the point of creating the article was to stop the article
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Please review the articles in question fully, as there
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unsourced - it quotes primary sources as permitted by
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If deleting, permit re-creation as a proper article.
121:Yet another cluttered, trivial and unsourced list. 39:). No further edits should be made to this page. 876:). No further edits should be made to this page. 617:the three marching Revolutionary War soldiers. 8: 823:(by creator): The article contains trivia. 476:There are no sources, so it clearly fails 306:but it also doesn't meet the criteria for 789:list of Popular culture-related deletions 71:The three wise monkeys in popular culture 63:The three wise monkeys in popular culture 787:: This debate has been included in the 684:: This debate has been included in the 614:Hear no evil, see no evil, keep no evil 774:not a notable pop culture phenomenon. 7: 302:This clearly is not noteable as per 200:being overwhelmed by these items. - 813:legaiamaster will warp your reality 24: 227:overwhelm the original article. 221:being overwhelmed by these items 686:list of Japan-related deletions 18:Knowledge:Articles for deletion 859:21:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 816:14:33, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 799:00:01, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 672:03:48, 10 September 2007 (UTC) 412:User:Fresheneesz/Don't Destroy 57:16:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 1: 779:18:56, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 767:11:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 749:11:03, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 729:21:47, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 709:10:19, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 696:10:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 652:22:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 642:23:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 622:22:37, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 607:11:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC) 591:22:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 569:17:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 552:16:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 540:09:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 515:00:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC) 493:21:56, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 464:21:27, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 451:18:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 423:14:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 395:13:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 364:13:19, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 337:12:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 318:11:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 293:09:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 273:07:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 244:12:38, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 232:07:30, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 208:07:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 189:05:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 165:05:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 153:05:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 139:05:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 126:04:18, 6 September 2007 (UTC) 510:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 418:Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles 545:Equally astonished re-reply 893: 704:. Trivia, unencyclopedic. 323:Request for clarification 869:Please do not modify it. 373:subpage of the talk page 32:Please do not modify it. 833:cluttered and unsourced 809:three wise monkeys 279:Three wise monkeys 219:Three wise monkeys 198:Three wise monkeys 801: 792: 698: 689: 257:The page has one 884: 871: 793: 783: 690: 680: 522:Astonished reply 513: 511: 421: 419: 414:. Sincerely, -- 361: 358: 355: 352: 182: 179: 176: 112: 94: 34: 892: 891: 887: 886: 885: 883: 882: 881: 880: 874:deletion review 867: 796:John Vandenberg 530:primary sources 509: 507: 417: 415: 392:Smerdis of Tlön 359: 356: 353: 350: 261:image on it of 180: 177: 174: 172:per nominator. 148:- non notable. 85: 69: 66: 44:The result was 37:deletion review 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 890: 888: 879: 878: 862: 861: 818: 802: 781: 776:Carlossuarez46 769: 753: 752: 751: 711: 699: 677: 676: 675: 674: 655: 654: 644: 624: 611: 610: 609: 580: 579: 578: 577: 576: 575: 574: 573: 572: 571: 519: 518: 517: 496: 495: 469: 468: 467: 466: 425: 397: 390:points out. - 377:Andrew Lenahan 366: 346:Andrew Lenahan 339: 320: 297: 296: 295: 283:See no evil... 251: 250: 249: 248: 247: 246: 211: 210: 191: 167: 155: 142: 141: 119: 118: 65: 60: 42: 41: 25: 23: 15: 14: 13: 10: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 889: 877: 875: 870: 864: 863: 860: 857: 854: 850: 846: 842: 838: 834: 830: 826: 822: 819: 817: 814: 810: 806: 803: 800: 797: 790: 786: 782: 780: 777: 773: 770: 768: 765: 762: 757: 754: 750: 747: 744: 740: 736: 732: 731: 730: 727: 725: 723: 719: 715: 712: 710: 707: 703: 700: 697: 694: 687: 683: 679: 678: 673: 669: 665: 664: 659: 658: 657: 656: 653: 650: 645: 643: 639: 635: 634: 628: 625: 623: 620: 615: 612: 608: 605: 602: 599:. See above. 598: 594: 593: 592: 589: 585: 582: 581: 570: 567: 564: 559: 555: 554: 553: 550: 549:Corvus cornix 546: 543: 542: 541: 538: 535: 531: 527: 523: 520: 516: 512: 504: 500: 499: 498: 497: 494: 491: 490:Corvus cornix 487: 483: 479: 475: 474: 473: 472: 471: 470: 465: 462: 459: 454: 453: 452: 449: 448:Corvus cornix 445: 441: 437: 433: 429: 426: 424: 420: 413: 409: 405: 401: 398: 396: 393: 389: 385: 382: 378: 374: 370: 367: 365: 362: 347: 343: 340: 338: 335: 332: 328: 324: 321: 319: 316: 313: 309: 305: 301: 300:Speedy Delete 298: 294: 291: 288: 284: 280: 276: 275: 274: 271: 267: 264: 260: 256: 255:Speedy delete 253: 252: 245: 242: 239: 235: 234: 233: 230: 226: 222: 220: 215: 214: 213: 212: 209: 206: 203: 199: 195: 192: 190: 187: 183: 171: 168: 166: 163: 159: 156: 154: 151: 147: 144: 143: 140: 137: 133: 130: 129: 128: 127: 124: 116: 110: 106: 102: 98: 93: 89: 84: 80: 76: 72: 68: 67: 64: 61: 59: 58: 55: 51: 47: 40: 38: 33: 27: 26: 19: 868: 865: 832: 820: 804: 784: 771: 755: 734: 713: 701: 681: 661: 631: 626: 613: 583: 544: 521: 427: 399: 383: 368: 349: 341: 322: 299: 254: 224: 216: 193: 169: 157: 145: 131: 120: 49: 45: 43: 31: 28: 388:WP:SUBPAGE 381:Talk pages 315:Talk To Me 853:Fayenatic 825:WP:TRIVIA 761:Fayenatic 743:Fayenatic 649:Mandsford 619:Mandsford 601:Fayenatic 563:Fayenatic 534:Fayenatic 458:Fayenatic 444:WP:TRIVIA 331:Fayenatic 312:Pupster21 287:Fayenatic 263:Faye Wong 238:Fayenatic 229:Gatoclass 202:Fayenatic 150:Gatoclass 136:Spawn Man 270:Old Hoss 123:RobJ1981 115:View log 821:SUMMARY 739:WP:PSTS 722:Jaranda 558:WP:PSTS 308:WP:LIST 304:WP:NOTE 225:doesn't 162:MarkBul 88:protect 83:history 856:(talk) 829:WP:NOT 772:Delete 764:(talk) 746:(talk) 733:It is 718:WP:NOT 714:Delete 702:Delete 604:(talk) 584:Delete 566:(talk) 537:(talk) 461:(talk) 428:Delete 375:. As 342:Delete 334:(talk) 290:(talk) 241:(talk) 205:(talk) 170:Delete 158:Delete 146:Delete 132:Delete 92:delete 46:Delete 845:WP:RS 837:WP:OR 706:Keb25 627:Keeep 597:WP:OR 588:Corpx 526:WP:OR 482:WP:OR 478:WP:RS 440:WP:RS 432:WP:OR 371:to a 327:WP:OR 281:with 109:views 101:watch 97:links 54:Xoloz 16:< 849:WP:V 847:and 841:WP:N 811:are 805:keep 785:Note 682:Note 668:talk 638:talk 486:WP:V 442:and 436:WP:V 408:this 406:and 404:this 400:Keep 369:Move 310:. -- 194:Keep 186:Talk 105:logs 79:talk 75:edit 50:this 851:. 827:or 794:-- 791:. 735:not 693:Fg2 691:-- 688:. 663:DGG 633:DGG 446:. 384:are 357:bli 329:? 259:WTF 113:– ( 843:, 839:, 720:. 670:) 640:) 503:is 438:, 434:, 360:nd 354:ar 351:St 348:- 184:| 107:| 103:| 99:| 95:| 90:| 86:| 81:| 77:| 666:( 636:( 181:P 178:I 175:J 117:) 111:) 73:(

Index

Knowledge:Articles for deletion
deletion review
Xoloz
16:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The three wise monkeys in popular culture
The three wise monkeys in popular culture
edit
talk
history
protect
delete
links
watch
logs
views
View log
RobJ1981
04:18, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Spawn Man
05:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Gatoclass
05:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
MarkBul
05:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
JIP
Talk
05:48, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Three wise monkeys
Fayenatic
(talk)

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