559:. I struck my "Keep" vote (see above). I have to agree that merge is the best option here. I can't see any way to expand this article and I don't see how this phenomenon has as much impact and notability than the hurricanes themselves. This will probably be only a footnote in the history of hurricanes, severe weather, meteorology, and so on. As the article's creator, I will request a close as merge over at
582:, at least for now. There is certainly a legitimate claim of notability here as exposed by Steve Quinn's sources, even though the user has switched to "merge". I agree that this may be a case where NOTNEWS comes into play but contrary to Jasper Deng's claim we cannot tell whether the topic will have enduring notability until some time has passed (or until we met a time traveller from the future or
226:, including the references, more are available, and therefore satisfies all notability criteria. Just because it has a few precedents in the past, which are now years ago, it is a rare event. In particular, all three made landfall, were predicted to do so, and warnings were issued. This is unique from 2010 as stated in the article. In any case, notability criteria has been satisfied. ---
816:- please don't push the fringe theory that this is a fringe theory. There is no such policy or guideline that says I have to go through full peer review for "climatology sources" or scholarly sources and so on. We might as well throw out all the recent hurricane articles based on that criteria. Please stop making up rules for editing on Knowledge (XXG). Thanks. ---
937:– Original and arbitrary synthesis of a new topic from three distinct weather events that are already covered in appropriate depth in other articles. That the storms are individually notable does not change this, and the argument that we must keep this page for the purpose of alerting people to the dangers of climate change falls squarely under
707:– With due respect to those who want a merge, if people are going to use Knowledge (XXG) to search for this, they are more likely to look for terms like "Harvey" or "Irma" rather than "Three simultaneous Atlantic hurricanes". Keeping a redirect that fits better as a Google search term is really pointless.
771:
Based on this logic then we should throw out all new hurricane articles, and many new articles of other topics. These are not clickbate news sources, many are reliable sources that are alluded to in the various notability criteria. And I would prefer scholarly sources, but there aren't any studies
1031:
and what I mean by merge is including a sentence or two about there being three hurricanes at once in the seasonal summary - something that is not currently in there as of last check. There is no point in having such a stubby article - I don't care if it meets GNG or not - if everything could be
671:
This topic is a catalyst for three substantial hurricanes which have caused and are causing widespread destruction and eventual rebuilding on a large scale. ...that has impacted literally millions of people, in particular due to mass evacuations; leveling
Caribbean communities (and cities); huge
385:
I'm torn on this one. On the one hand, there are indeed reliable secondary sources which discuss the topic at length, and yet I think this is also essentially coverage of a specific news event. With that specific event have lasting notability over time? As other enormously destructive hurricane
197:
This isn't a remarkable event: it has precedent, not just in this basin but in other basins as well. In fact, if we relax the requirement that they all be hurricanes at the exact same moment, the
Atlantic has had four or more at once before. This deserves no more than a mention in
747:
to 2017 season, per above arguments. This is a slightly unusual version of a common occurrence (multiple hurricanes in the
Atlantic in September). Determining its lasting notability should be built upon reputable, scholarly sources, not clickbait websites and news services.
1126:
rather than an encyclopedia, but I now see that this doesn't even belong there because it is not a record. We have articles about the hurricane season and the individual hurricanes where this can be mentioned if verifiable from reliable secondary sources
1099:- I was originally going to go with merge, but after thinking and reading about it a bit more, it seems like neither the article nor the sources really make an argument that this is an actual notable event that was covered independent of the general
166:
1082:- Theres is nothing of any substance that is correct to merge into 2017 AHS. For example: "Three hurricane landfall advisories were issued by the NHC" - NHC does not issued any advisories or warnings specifically for a landfall hurricane.
318:
92:
87:
160:
96:
672:
storm surges that endanger and destroy - indeed a catalyst that has impacted large numbers of societies, communities; as well as families and evacuation destinations residing in other geographic locales.
312:
79:
517:
I have been intending to expand the article, and I am attempting to do so. I think this could be an enduring notable event given that two out of three hurricanes were (or are) very high intensity -
969:. I would like to step back, but the more egregious specious claims about article requirements need to be addressed ((not talking about your claims). However, your feedback is much appreciated. ---
852:
It is true, these sources would not be acceptable for a prestigious academic journal. I would prefer scholarly sources, but there aren't any studies out on the 2017 hurricane season just yet ---
684:, it may take weeks or months to determine whether or not an event has a lasting effect. This does not, however, mean recent events with unproven lasting effect are automatically non-notable
119:
608:
I agree with Jo-Jo. This pretty much expresses my sentiments and how I perceived this AfD in the first place. It is way too early. I dropped my Merge ivote and changed back to Keep.
264:
126:
300:
297:
643:
we cannot determine whether this will have enduring notability at this time; however, we cannot build an encyclopedia on uncertainties. Only if or when this demonstrates
244:
181:
148:
838:, to suggest that news reports become considered secondary sources. Until then, don't insult my intelligence with your definition of secondary sources.
560:
1161:
1140:
1114:
1103:. Since there is little to no sourced text to transfer over anyways and the title isn't particularly searchable, there's no need to keep it around.
1091:
1074:
1043:
1023:
1006:
978:
956:
928:
909:
892:
861:
847:
825:
808:
783:
761:
735:
718:
695:
656:
617:
599:
574:
542:
509:
484:
461:
442:
425:
395:
371:
349:
329:
276:
256:
235:
213:
61:
142:
138:
291:
386:
seasons occur, it may not stand out particularly in the historical record. So I guess I'm a weak keep, but I see the argument to delete.
188:
1132:
434:
83:
556:
474:
199:
306:
17:
1041:
595:
315:
75:
67:
477:. I would consider the current awkward name of the article as a plausible search term, and see no reason to keep it as a redirect.
533:. I also had in mind a name change since I began the article. I just used this one to get it into the main space and begin. ----
835:
154:
583:
1149:
1100:
1052:
881:
631:
552:
470:
406:
586:
is enabled, but either is very unlikely). And then, and only then, can we properly assess whether the topic fails NOTNEWS.
504:
938:
309:
1180:
303:
40:
272:
252:
795:. Come back when we have any sources that have gone through full peer review (for climatology sources) or scholarly
525:. This has had widespread impact on populated areas and has been nationally and internationally noticed in the media
967:
combining material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources
965:
Sorry to say, this is not synthesis and it is not WP:OR. All content is sourced by reliable sources, and no one is
652:
294:
1136:
1019:
591:
438:
799:
historical sources, and don't push the fringe theory that news reports are secondary sources for history.
1000:
954:
755:
563:. Also, we need someone who knows how to merge the relevant content into the appropriate articles. Thanks.
457:
268:
248:
686:. Hence, losing the continuity of this article to "merge" does not seem to be the appropriate course. ---
526:
1176:
1036:
974:
924:
857:
821:
779:
731:
691:
648:
613:
570:
538:
481:
421:
367:
346:
325:
231:
210:
36:
942:
287:
Here is a bunch of coverage demonstrating being worthy of notice or worthy of note (per GNG and so on)
1087:
1071:
1065:
1056:
666:
644:
335:
409:, explain how it is notable three hurricanes were at the same time. It doesn't deserve an article.
174:
530:
1157:
1015:
640:
587:
203:
966:
1107:
994:
993:- The three hurricanes have their own articles/sections, which makes this article redundant. —
947:
843:
804:
750:
500:
453:
391:
29:
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below.
1175:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
35:
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
1033:
970:
920:
853:
831:
817:
775:
727:
687:
609:
566:
534:
478:
410:
363:
343:
321:
227:
207:
989:
877:
1083:
1060:
223:
1131:
not sensational news reports), but I see no reason to have a separate article about it.
522:
518:
647:
notability in the future would it need a standalone article, not any time before that.
1153:
1104:
839:
813:
800:
494:
387:
113:
902:
885:
53:
945:
the discussion; their rebuttals are increasingly without any new insight. –
1152:
article, and the awkward wording makes it a poor candidate for a redirect.
342:
notability of this event, which I do not believe will be satisfied here.--
1039:
1122:. At first I thought that this might be something that belongs in the
669:. This topic is the incubator for aggregate severe weather phenomena.
1032:
covered in a respective parent article, which fortunately, there is.
452:
this is the answer to a trivia question, not an encyclopedic topic.
433:- Explain it on the 2017 page, and the ones for each of the three.
1169:
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate.
941:. I'd also suggest that the article creator step back and avoid
362:
It's hot news. It's a notable topic, as I have demonstrated. ---
1059:
from this article, and worthy of a few lines in that articles.
469:
The limited content of the page can easily be accommodated by
639:
Contrary to popular belief, we are not a news source. True,
830:
Kindly talk to members of my committee, or try to convince
492:
Worth discussing in context, but not worth an article. --
109:
105:
101:
173:
405:
I think we should add the information in the lead of
187:
901:, and if we merge then merge without redirecting.
772:out on the 2017 hurricane season just yet. Thanks.
724:i am intending to change the article title. Thanks
43:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1183:). No further edits should be made to this page.
1148:- the content can be easily incorporated in the
265:list of Environment-related deletion discussions
897:Well, if we're not going speedy delete, then
76:Three simultaneous Atlantic hurricanes (2017)
68:Three simultaneous Atlantic hurricanes (2017)
8:
1055:. For the reasons highlighted above, it's a
263:Note: This debate has been included in the
243:Note: This debate has been included in the
245:list of Events-related deletion discussions
262:
242:
630:- This can and should be merged into the
338:, which means that we must consider the
320:. Also, see the article references... --
665:My take on this is the topic satisfies
683:
18:Knowledge (XXG):Articles for deletion
7:
682:Please also note, per WP:LASTING:
557:List of Atlantic hurricane records
475:List of Atlantic hurricane records
200:List of Atlantic hurricane records
24:
222:It is significantly covered in
1162:04:18, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
1150:2017 Atlantic hurricane season
1141:19:02, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
1115:02:04, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
1101:2017 Atlantic hurricane season
1092:10:40, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
1075:17:43, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
1053:2017 Atlantic hurricane season
1044:06:17, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
1024:04:29, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
1007:01:20, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
979:01:51, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
957:01:09, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
929:01:01, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
910:16:14, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
893:23:53, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
882:2017 Atlantic hurricane season
862:02:11, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
848:01:08, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
826:00:41, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
809:22:22, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
784:01:01, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
762:20:38, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
736:01:01, 12 September 2017 (UTC)
719:20:37, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
696:20:25, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
657:19:32, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
632:2017 Atlantic hurricane season
618:20:01, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
600:19:16, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
575:18:28, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
561:WP:Administrators' noticeboard
553:2017 Atlantic hurricane season
543:18:08, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
510:15:02, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
485:08:52, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
471:2017 Atlantic hurricane season
462:01:41, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
443:19:32, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
426:19:16, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
407:2017 Atlantic hurricane season
396:18:33, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
372:22:35, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
350:18:40, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
330:17:44, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
277:17:32, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
257:17:32, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
236:17:22, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
214:17:08, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
62:02:58, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
1:
1200:
834:to publish an article in
1172:Please do not modify it.
1124:Guinness Book of Records
32:Please do not modify it.
1051:very selectively into
939:righting great wrongs
584:Special:PredictFuture
988:Delete or reduce to
990:disambiguation page
204:Atlantic hurricane
705:Delete, not merge
508:
414:The Egg of Reason
279:
269:Shawn in Montreal
259:
249:Shawn in Montreal
1191:
1174:
1112:
1003:
997:
950:
907:
890:
758:
753:
717:
716:
649:TheGracefulSlick
498:
497:
417:
224:reliable sources
192:
191:
177:
129:
117:
99:
59:
34:
1199:
1198:
1194:
1193:
1192:
1190:
1189:
1188:
1187:
1181:deletion review
1170:
1108:
1080:Straight delete
1001:
995:
948:
903:
886:
756:
751:
715:
710:
708:
493:
411:
134:
125:
90:
74:
71:
54:
48:The result was
41:deletion review
30:
22:
21:
20:
12:
11:
5:
1197:
1195:
1186:
1185:
1165:
1164:
1143:
1117:
1094:
1077:
1046:
1026:
1009:
984:
983:
982:
981:
960:
959:
943:WP:BLUDGEONing
915:
914:
913:
912:
870:
869:
868:
867:
866:
865:
864:
836:his periodical
789:
788:
787:
786:
765:
764:
741:
740:
739:
738:
711:
701:
700:
699:
698:
677:
676:
675:
674:
660:
659:
623:
622:
621:
620:
603:
602:
577:
545:
523:Hurricane Jose
519:Hurricane Irma
512:
487:
464:
446:
445:
428:
399:
398:
379:
378:
377:
376:
375:
374:
355:
354:
353:
352:
281:
280:
260:
239:
238:
195:
194:
131:
70:
65:
46:
45:
25:
23:
15:
14:
13:
10:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1196:
1184:
1182:
1178:
1173:
1167:
1166:
1163:
1159:
1155:
1151:
1147:
1144:
1142:
1138:
1134:
1133:86.17.222.157
1130:
1125:
1121:
1118:
1116:
1113:
1111:
1106:
1102:
1098:
1095:
1093:
1089:
1085:
1081:
1078:
1076:
1073:
1069:
1068:
1064:
1063:
1058:
1054:
1050:
1047:
1045:
1042:
1040:
1038:
1035:
1030:
1027:
1025:
1021:
1017:
1016:Beyond My Ken
1013:
1010:
1008:
1004:
998:
992:
991:
986:
985:
980:
976:
972:
968:
964:
963:
962:
961:
958:
955:
952:
951:
944:
940:
936:
933:
932:
931:
930:
926:
922:
919:
911:
908:
906:
900:
896:
895:
894:
891:
889:
883:
879:
876:
875:
874:Speedy delete
871:
863:
859:
855:
851:
850:
849:
845:
841:
837:
833:
829:
828:
827:
823:
819:
815:
812:
811:
810:
806:
802:
798:
794:
791:
790:
785:
781:
777:
773:
769:
768:
767:
766:
763:
760:
759:
754:
746:
743:
742:
737:
733:
729:
725:
722:
721:
720:
714:
706:
703:
702:
697:
693:
689:
685:
681:
680:
679:
678:
673:
668:
664:
663:
662:
661:
658:
654:
650:
646:
642:
641:Jo-Jo Eumerus
638:
635:
633:
629:
625:
624:
619:
615:
611:
607:
606:
605:
604:
601:
597:
596:contributions
593:
589:
588:Jo-Jo Eumerus
585:
581:
578:
576:
572:
568:
564:
562:
558:
554:
550:
546:
544:
540:
536:
532:
528:
524:
520:
516:
513:
511:
506:
502:
496:
491:
488:
486:
483:
480:
476:
472:
468:
465:
463:
459:
455:
451:
448:
447:
444:
440:
436:
435:47.208.20.130
432:
429:
427:
424:
423:
418:
416:
415:
408:
404:
401:
400:
397:
393:
389:
384:
381:
380:
373:
369:
365:
361:
360:
359:
358:
357:
356:
351:
348:
345:
341:
337:
333:
332:
331:
327:
323:
319:
316:
313:
310:
307:
304:
301:
298:
295:
292:
290:
286:
283:
282:
278:
274:
270:
266:
261:
258:
254:
250:
246:
241:
240:
237:
233:
229:
225:
221:
218:
217:
216:
215:
212:
209:
205:
201:
190:
186:
183:
180:
176:
172:
168:
165:
162:
159:
156:
153:
150:
147:
144:
140:
137:
136:Find sources:
132:
128:
124:
121:
115:
111:
107:
103:
98:
94:
89:
85:
81:
77:
73:
72:
69:
66:
64:
63:
60:
57:
51:
44:
42:
38:
33:
27:
26:
19:
1171:
1168:
1145:
1128:
1123:
1119:
1109:
1096:
1079:
1066:
1061:
1057:content fork
1048:
1028:
1011:
996:CycloneIsaac
987:
949:Juliancolton
946:
934:
917:
916:
904:
898:
887:
873:
872:
796:
792:
770:
749:
744:
723:
712:
704:
670:
636:
627:
626:
579:
548:
547:
527:WP:EVENTCRIT
514:
489:
466:
454:Power~enwiki
449:
430:
420:
413:
412:
402:
382:
339:
288:
284:
219:
196:
184:
178:
170:
163:
157:
151:
145:
135:
122:
55:
49:
47:
31:
28:
971:Steve Quinn
921:Steve Quinn
854:Steve Quinn
832:one of them
818:Steve Quinn
776:Steve Quinn
728:Steve Quinn
688:Steve Quinn
610:Steve Quinn
567:Steve Quinn
535:Steve Quinn
364:Steve Quinn
344:Jasper Deng
322:Steve Quinn
228:Steve Quinn
208:Jasper Deng
161:free images
1084:Jason Rees
667:WP:LASTING
645:WP:LASTING
336:WP:NOTNEWS
1177:talk page
918::*Not ---
797:secondary
531:WP:EFFECT
37:talk page
1179:or in a
1154:Inks.LWC
505:contribs
340:enduring
120:View log
39:or in a
840:Nyttend
814:Nyttend
801:Nyttend
752:Sounder
515:Comment
495:Elmidae
388:Nwlaw63
383:Comment
285:Comment
167:WP refs
155:scholar
93:protect
88:history
1146:Delete
1120:Delete
1097:Delete
1062:Joseph
935:Delete
905:Ks0stm
899:delete
888:Ks0stm
793:Delete
637:Delete
467:Delete
450:Delete
347:(talk)
211:(talk)
139:Google
97:delete
50:delete
1072:talk)
1049:Merge
1029:Merge
1012:Merge
757:Bruce
745:Merge
709:Mitch
628:Merge
549:Merge
490:Merge
431:Merge
403:Merge
182:JSTOR
143:books
127:Stats
114:views
106:watch
102:links
16:<
1158:talk
1137:talk
1129:i.e.
1105:ansh
1088:talk
1067:2302
1020:talk
1002:Talk
975:talk
925:talk
858:talk
844:talk
822:talk
805:talk
780:talk
732:talk
692:talk
653:talk
614:talk
592:talk
580:Keep
571:talk
555:and
551:to
539:talk
521:and
501:talk
473:and
458:talk
439:talk
422:Talk
392:talk
368:talk
334:See
326:talk
317:and
273:talk
253:talk
232:talk
220:Keep
175:FENS
149:news
110:logs
84:talk
80:edit
58:avix
52:. --
1110:666
880:of
878:A10
774:---
726:---
565:---
419:|
202:or
189:TWL
118:– (
1160:)
1139:)
1090:)
1022:)
1014:-
1005:)
977:)
953:|
927:)
884:.
860:)
846:)
824:)
807:)
782:)
734:)
713:32
694:)
655:)
616:)
598:)
594:,
573:)
541:)
529:,
503:·
460:)
441:)
394:)
370:)
328:)
314:,
311:,
308:,
305:,
302:,
299:,
296:,
293:,
275:)
267:.
255:)
247:.
234:)
206:.
169:)
112:|
108:|
104:|
100:|
95:|
91:|
86:|
82:|
1156:(
1135:(
1127:(
1086:(
1070:(
1037:E
1034:Y
1018:(
999:(
973:(
923:(
856:(
842:(
820:(
803:(
778:(
730:(
690:(
651:(
634:.
612:(
590:(
569:(
537:(
507:)
499:(
482:R
479:T
456:(
437:(
390:(
366:(
324:(
289::
271:(
251:(
230:(
193:)
185:·
179:·
171:·
164:·
158:·
152:·
146:·
141:(
133:(
130:)
123:·
116:)
78:(
56:T
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.